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vic75
Legend
Silver Level
DarkRoster33
Enthusiast
Silver Level
You got one thing wrong, as i have been fan of League of Legends esports, i can clearly see that there is very rarely any luck in presence, wins the one who has been more ready for this match
As in football lack factor is too very rare and 90% of time won't decide the outcome of the game
Talking about poker and free information you have to understand that in general people are stupid and retarded as very smart and professional. You will beat 90% idiots in this tournament, as you will meet some guys who have though of more things in this game than you ever will. I myself like to beat people using psychology, even in online i can tell when someone is bluffing, or just went all in with nothing or just got bored of this game, there are timings of how much everyone spends time to fold, check, raise, reraise and so on, there are his last 50 hands played at this table to know his profile. What seems to be game about luck and chance at first, some guys finishes his session with alot of money in his pocket everyday, some otherwise
As in football lack factor is too very rare and 90% of time won't decide the outcome of the game
Talking about poker and free information you have to understand that in general people are stupid and retarded as very smart and professional. You will beat 90% idiots in this tournament, as you will meet some guys who have though of more things in this game than you ever will. I myself like to beat people using psychology, even in online i can tell when someone is bluffing, or just went all in with nothing or just got bored of this game, there are timings of how much everyone spends time to fold, check, raise, reraise and so on, there are his last 50 hands played at this table to know his profile. What seems to be game about luck and chance at first, some guys finishes his session with alot of money in his pocket everyday, some otherwise
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
I'm the luckiest man in the world for nine straight years!!! I'll sell you a piece of my clothing if you want so you can get the lock mojo juice flowing. Let's see, I think $99 for a small thread from my pocket. $149 for one of my shoe laces. $299 for an old shirt. Just PM me if interested. lol
This thread should have ended long ago. If someone, or some team truly does have more skill, then that skill over time will always win out. In the short term (1 game, 3 matches), anything is possible. It's called variance my friend. If this wasn't a level, then close thread now?
This thread should have ended long ago. If someone, or some team truly does have more skill, then that skill over time will always win out. In the short term (1 game, 3 matches), anything is possible. It's called variance my friend. If this wasn't a level, then close thread now?
Tom1559
Legend
Silver Level
Of course there is an element of luck involved in poker. But in the long game the players who consistently make the right decisions will come out with a positive ROI. Consistently making the right decisions requires skill.
Staneff
Rock Star
Silver Level
Your words are true but true for online poker. Playing live will never be the same as playing online.
Im not sure about this u said for young poker players who replace legends on the top of poker elite. How can young player replace a poker legends with 20-30 years experience?
Im not sure about this u said for young poker players who replace legends on the top of poker elite. How can young player replace a poker legends with 20-30 years experience?
SANDYHOOKER KY
Rock Star
Silver Level
Ok, here is the whole thing nut in a shell: Skill=75%, variance=25%. Luck=? Can't really figure the % luck plays, every one will have a different degree at different times. Donkers seem to have more luck with 2-7 against your pocket kings because variance comes into play, but the donker won't beat your monster hand very many times. Lets say you have a-a, the flop is 3-7-9, you bet the hell out of them, you get re-raised big time, you go all-in, what is wrong with your play there? You can't lay down those aces, and run them right into a set, boooom. Too many players equate that with: the site set me up, or, the fish got lucky, no **** mr. pro, you can't expect a call, and expect no one to help their hand, just like you COULD have hit a set. If your not able to lay down what you THINK is the big monster holy grail can't be beaten A-A, then your still an amateur rookie yourself, and can expect to stay there, until that day comes when you can muck a-a just like they were deuces, and then it hit's you, it was my skill in being able to do that, without someone holding a gun to your head. Nope, luck plays just a small part in the game of poker, skill and discipline plays the greatest part in being a good player. But, i will say this, with the humongous donk pool currently playing on the carbon site, with 90% of them playing so bad i am absolutely shamed to admit they are from the U.S.ofA, the argument is valid for that site, it is a card lottery through and through. Good, solid play is a thing of the past there, it's for real any two will do. Call and draw. Chase every hand. Play every hand. PFFFFFFFTTTT.
PsychoVas
What The Duck???
Bronze Level
Buddy, you got it all wrong here!!!
Ks is a huge underdog to As as it is a two-outter!
No luck factor here.
Remember that every individual card draw is determined by luck but, in the long run (after thousands of played hands), probability is confirmed ( I mean real values are almost exactly the theoretical ones). So the outcome in the end is more skill-related than luck-related.
As for the information on poker worldwide, the net, books, lessons etc. it is true that if you want you can learn with more ease these days. Consider though how many don't want to learn or believe that they already know everything...
You are new here as I saw, give yourself the time to read older threads of people learning, evolving and getting profitable in the end. Tons of interesting stuff in the forum.
Good luck at the tables and on studying this fascinating game!
10058765
Legend
Loyaler
Luck evens out after a certain number of hands.
Sometimes you might be lucky in a hand, sometimes not.
Tho, luck will only play after you used your skills, and as said in the long term it will even out.
Skill is what makes you a winning player.
For example, I'm kinda 2-7 micro reg, meaning I play loads of $ 2,20 tournaments at stars.
In 2012...profitable, in 2013....profitable, in 2014 so far...profitable.
Why profitable ?
I had my fair share of lucky moments, but to even that out also my fair share of unlucky moments.
The difference is skill and that's what it is....having more skills than a bunch of other players makes me able to show a profit.
Why not even more profit ?
Unfortunately because there's just some other regs there who have more skills than I have.
And that's the reason I'm not profitable in Holdem.
There's just too many better players there....nothing to do with luck.
Sometimes you might be lucky in a hand, sometimes not.
Tho, luck will only play after you used your skills, and as said in the long term it will even out.
Skill is what makes you a winning player.
For example, I'm kinda 2-7 micro reg, meaning I play loads of $ 2,20 tournaments at stars.
In 2012...profitable, in 2013....profitable, in 2014 so far...profitable.
Why profitable ?
I had my fair share of lucky moments, but to even that out also my fair share of unlucky moments.
The difference is skill and that's what it is....having more skills than a bunch of other players makes me able to show a profit.
Why not even more profit ?
Unfortunately because there's just some other regs there who have more skills than I have.
And that's the reason I'm not profitable in Holdem.
There's just too many better players there....nothing to do with luck.
C
cotta777
Visionary
Silver Level
although this can be true to an extent.
theirs not many players who play a perfect game, players will always often get tired
be only 90 committed or less go on tilt, have a bad day.
as a great player its your duty to capitalise on these traits and pick up something to target from each player. 70% of success is belief focus conviction confidence.
you go thinking everyones as good as you and its a gamble because your gonna play like its a gamble and miss those extra spots.
also you need to utalise the market find the dead money and the big rich games with players who are weak.
one thing im certain about an aggressive winning player will have a hell if a time against me. I know exactly what they are trying to do so I will pulverise them, push all double float, bluff catch 5-bet shuv.
you got to have that conviction it pays off
theirs not many players who play a perfect game, players will always often get tired
be only 90 committed or less go on tilt, have a bad day.
as a great player its your duty to capitalise on these traits and pick up something to target from each player. 70% of success is belief focus conviction confidence.
you go thinking everyones as good as you and its a gamble because your gonna play like its a gamble and miss those extra spots.
also you need to utalise the market find the dead money and the big rich games with players who are weak.
one thing im certain about an aggressive winning player will have a hell if a time against me. I know exactly what they are trying to do so I will pulverise them, push all double float, bluff catch 5-bet shuv.
you got to have that conviction it pays off
veltins
Legend
Bronze Level
when we are running bad or playin bad , then we blame it on pure bad luck.. i know sometime maniacs reshove 4 bet wth 66 vs my AA or KK n then hit 6 o nthe flop for set n ko me out , but thats part of the game . we Need to accpet it and move on . if we dont then we better leave poker n do somethingelse.. always talking about badbeat stories making us a laughing stock and also it affects our mind negatively and creats stress which is bad for our Body..
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bredaman7
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Just won first place in a small tourney today, and what I want to say is, when it comes to tourney, you need luck more than skill (because only one chance), but in poker cash game, maybe you need more skill, and more bankroll of course, to win! if u have limited bankroll, than u just have limited chance (no long run).
My luck to the champion crown: I had T2 suited on small blind, the ante and blinds getting higher, nobody call/raise, I call, flop 45T and he shoved all in, he had bigger stack than me, but no way I could fold because of my tiny chips, now or never! so I called, he showed two pair (45) and I thought it was my last game, but I hit 2 on the turn! he got mad and tilt, then I have huge stack, thus help me a lot to won 1st place! and whoever you are who have won tournament, just admit that you experienced big lucky moment before you got the crown. conclusion: luck and chance are more needed in tourney.
Adios
My luck to the champion crown: I had T2 suited on small blind, the ante and blinds getting higher, nobody call/raise, I call, flop 45T and he shoved all in, he had bigger stack than me, but no way I could fold because of my tiny chips, now or never! so I called, he showed two pair (45) and I thought it was my last game, but I hit 2 on the turn! he got mad and tilt, then I have huge stack, thus help me a lot to won 1st place! and whoever you are who have won tournament, just admit that you experienced big lucky moment before you got the crown. conclusion: luck and chance are more needed in tourney.
Adios
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rickypr18
Rock Star
Silver Level
Nobel Prize stuff there.
Jblocher1
Legend
Silver Level
Lol
B
bredaman7
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Yes for me it is like winning a noble prize, so what? it feels good always when you win, rite? because you cannot be always the 1st place in poker tournament, no matter how good you are. I do hell muchly appreciate winning in tournament, because, you don't know when you are gonna win again.
Karozi615
Visionary
Silver Level
I mean, you aren't entirely wrong. Poker is literally a zero sum game, in order to generate money you have to take it from somewhere else - in other words another player. When players are of an equal skill level there is no profit margin - your all handing around chips and losing money because of rake.
People who make a living off of poker are few and far between - and the ones that can do it are generally living an extremely poor lifestyle.
Even people like Tom Dwan / Isuldur are vastly overrated - they are products of extreme endorsements and an era of really bad poker.
That being said, there are still bad players live and online. Good players can easily win at the micros, and as long as there are new players and recreational players there will ALWAYS be some dead money at the table.
Ultimately, profitability is basically dependent on the skill levels of players around you - these days in NLHE the skill gap is closing.
If you want to crush it learn another game, teach yourself PLO and I can assure you that your earnings will quadruple.
People who make a living off of poker are few and far between - and the ones that can do it are generally living an extremely poor lifestyle.
Even people like Tom Dwan / Isuldur are vastly overrated - they are products of extreme endorsements and an era of really bad poker.
That being said, there are still bad players live and online. Good players can easily win at the micros, and as long as there are new players and recreational players there will ALWAYS be some dead money at the table.
Ultimately, profitability is basically dependent on the skill levels of players around you - these days in NLHE the skill gap is closing.
If you want to crush it learn another game, teach yourself PLO and I can assure you that your earnings will quadruple.
G
GWU73
Visionary
Silver Level
Saying that poker today is no longer a game of skill could not be further from the truth. The reality is we all experience variance and get the same overall mix of hands, but skilled players lose less with their bad hands, win more with their good hands and make money with hands bad players would go broke with. The skills required to be a good player are often invisible to the bad players. The fact that bad players do not know why they seem to loose or win during a particular session gives them the illusion that they are just as likely to win or lose as the skilled player. The skills needed include strong deductive logic, a solid understanding of psychology (especially game theory), risk tolerance, self discipline, and 7th grade algebra.
Arjonius
Legend
Silver Level
Actually, since you have to pay fees and/or rake, it's a -ve sum game.
And your qualifications for making this judgment are what exactly?
This assumes you aren't improving as fast as or faster than the players around you.
ccocco
Rock Star
Silver Level
bit of luck should you watch everything in life, but we can not rely on it alone, you have to know the precise intervene always times when the right knowledge and for that purpose have. no study depend on luck and nothing more .. poker is much more than luck. a mental game, strategy, theft, and above all, I think a lot of intuition ..
DonV73
Visionary
Silver Level
Luck will always be a part in poker. Impossible to take that out. But the idea is that you try to manage luck with skill as much as you possibly can.
I don't think it can be expressed it % but skill should normally be of more impact on the outcome than luck.
I don't think it can be expressed it % but skill should normally be of more impact on the outcome than luck.
