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Q
quads
Rock Star
Silver Level
Some good legal advice in that statement. Especially the part about them even uncovering even more fraud not mentioned anywhere else.
The site new a long time ago what happened, and waited to see how it was going to play out. Then when they had no choice but to take their lumps, only cause they were backed into a corner like a rat did they come forward. After profits probably took a major hit, did they come forward and decide to make all players that were affected whole.
If it were cheaper to deny, no doubt would of been the road they took.
The site new a long time ago what happened, and waited to see how it was going to play out. Then when they had no choice but to take their lumps, only cause they were backed into a corner like a rat did they come forward. After profits probably took a major hit, did they come forward and decide to make all players that were affected whole.
If it were cheaper to deny, no doubt would of been the road they took.
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
Oct 10 @ 7:51 PM 2795
Oct 11 @ 7:50 PM 2613
Oct 12 @ 7:14 PM 2479
Oct 13 @ 8:09 PM 2163
Oct 14 @ 7:39 PM 2352
Oct 15 @ 8:02 PM 2611
Oct 16 @ 6:49 PM 2593
Oct 17 @ 7:56 PM 2411
Oct 18 @ 7:49 PM 2461
Oct 19 @ 7:20 PM 2310
Oct 20 @ 8:20 PM 1928
from pokersitescout. it's too early to tell the effect, really
Oct 11 @ 7:50 PM 2613
Oct 12 @ 7:14 PM 2479
Oct 13 @ 8:09 PM 2163
Oct 14 @ 7:39 PM 2352
Oct 15 @ 8:02 PM 2611
Oct 16 @ 6:49 PM 2593
Oct 17 @ 7:56 PM 2411
Oct 18 @ 7:49 PM 2461
Oct 19 @ 7:20 PM 2310
Oct 20 @ 8:20 PM 1928
from pokersitescout. it's too early to tell the effect, really
Genso Hikki
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I'm curious as to if or how they will ever address/compensate the players who's personal information was leaked out in that Excel spread sheet.
It's good they've finally admitted wrong doing, but I have no plans to ever play there again.
It's good they've finally admitted wrong doing, but I have no plans to ever play there again.
Now my account is zero.
Bombjack
Legend
Silver Level
Personally I don't believe a word of anything Absolute say. They've lied at every opportunity up to now - why should this be any different? No sympathy please dakota - why forgive them because they've just come up with a new lie (and only after it became completely obvious they were lying in the first instance, so were forced to change their story)?
On 2p2 a number of the cheating accounts were linked back to people in Scott Tom's college fraternity. So this "consultant" (who five minutes ago was "just some programmer geek") would need to know who all the old college friends were of the former CEO he was trying to frame. An elaborate framing system, despite making the effort to get round the detection systems so it would never be discovered, and would only get found out if someone in support sent out everyone's email addresses by mistake. It just doesn't add up.
On 2p2 a number of the cheating accounts were linked back to people in Scott Tom's college fraternity. So this "consultant" (who five minutes ago was "just some programmer geek") would need to know who all the old college friends were of the former CEO he was trying to frame. An elaborate framing system, despite making the effort to get round the detection systems so it would never be discovered, and would only get found out if someone in support sent out everyone's email addresses by mistake. It just doesn't add up.
robwhufc
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
So........
Joe Norton owns Tokwiro Enterprises.
Tokwiro Enterprises owns Absolute Poker and UltimateBet
Absolute Poker and UltimateBet are registered and regulated by Kahnawake Reservation in Montreal.
Kahnawake Reservation is owned by Joe Norton.
Sorry, but can someone explain to me again why UltimateBet aren't included in the site boycott?
Joe Norton owns Tokwiro Enterprises.
Tokwiro Enterprises owns Absolute Poker and UltimateBet
Absolute Poker and UltimateBet are registered and regulated by Kahnawake Reservation in Montreal.
Kahnawake Reservation is owned by Joe Norton.
Sorry, but can someone explain to me again why UltimateBet aren't included in the site boycott?
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
You do realise that about 80 poker sites are licensed by KGC, right? Would you have all them boycotted too, despite zero evidence of wrongdoing?
Seriously, stop baying for blood unless it's Absolute's.
Seriously, stop baying for blood unless it's Absolute's.
robwhufc
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
It's not the licensing by KGC that's the problem, it's the fact that Absolute Poker and Utimate Bet are licensed by KGC AND owned by KGC. That doesn't apply to 80 sites, it doesn't apply to one site, it applies to two - Absolute Poker (blacklisted) and Ultimate Bet (site download linked to site). If it has been shown that Tokwiro Enterprises have failed to stop a breach in one of it's 2 poker company's security, and if it has been shown that KGC are unable to audit and regulate a company that they also own (a HUGE conflict of interest by the way), then why does Cardschat have to wait before it's members are ripped off before they act?
I'm hoping that that's a request and not an order, as i'd have a real problem if you were giving me orders.Dorkus Malorkus said:
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
Rob,
It was merely a suggestion based on the fact that thus far nobody at Ultimatebet has been implicated in any wrongdoing. It's not about "waiting for someone to be ripped off", it's more like "not taking action against people without evidence". We should be focusing on the facts in hand, and all the facts in hand relate to the incompetence and/or fraud of AP.
Debi,
AJ Green is the 'high-ranking consultant'. Scott Tom is apparently his boss, which conflicts with an earlier statement from Absolute saying he had had nothing to do with the company for the past year or so.
But then again, what more do we expect from Absolute, heh. :/
It was merely a suggestion based on the fact that thus far nobody at Ultimatebet has been implicated in any wrongdoing. It's not about "waiting for someone to be ripped off", it's more like "not taking action against people without evidence". We should be focusing on the facts in hand, and all the facts in hand relate to the incompetence and/or fraud of AP.
Debi,
AJ Green is the 'high-ranking consultant'. Scott Tom is apparently his boss, which conflicts with an earlier statement from Absolute saying he had had nothing to do with the company for the past year or so.
But then again, what more do we expect from Absolute, heh. :/
robwhufc
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
From the same website you get all your info from ; Absolute Poker purchased Ultimate Bet in Oct, 2006. $10 million in cash and about $140 million in 5 future annual payments.
You don't need to wait for Ultimate Bet to be implicated in any wrong doing. Ultimate Bet IS Absolute Poker.
I've said all i'm going to say in this thread.
Bombjack
Legend
Silver Level
I certainly wouldn't play on Ultimate Bet now, because it's run by the same bunch of crooks who I don't want to give my money to in rake.
There's probably at higher risk of fraud there as a result of being run by proven cheaters, but that's secondary.
There's probably at higher risk of fraud there as a result of being run by proven cheaters, but that's secondary.
J
joeeagles
Legend
Silver Level
I'm with Rob on this 100%.
I understand DM's argument that, so far, there is no evidence of any wrongdoing on the part of Ultimatbet, but nevertheless it's owned, and the operations are run, by the same company. If I have a doubt on the legitimacy, security and reputation of one (Absolute Poker), then I necessarily have to extend that to the 2nd (Ultimatebet). This, IMO, becomes even more so when, as pointed out by Bombjack, their story on what happened just doesn't add up and has gigantic holes. Lets not forget their attempts to cover it up. The only reason they had to come up with some story is because the evidence became overwhelming.
Not to mention that if the people involved in this didn't get greedy, God knows how long this could have went on. Or, I might say, has been going on. One has to admit that the circumstances in which this came to light were fortuitous to say the least, because despite the fact that high stakes players were involved who are knowledgeable enough to know when something doesn't look right, w/o that file sent to "CRAZYMARCO" there is a very high likelyhood this whole thing would have been buried.
With all that in mind, granting trust to Ultimatebet is something I just can't do. As they say, the 1st time it's shame on them, but the 2nd is shame on you. It'll be a long time before I'll trust them again, if I ever will that is. Plus, with so many poker sites available even to US players, I really don't see why I should. I'm just sorry that Party can't accept US players at this time, hopefully in a couple years they'll be able to.
Screw Tokwiro Enterprises and screw Joe Norton, I hope they go out of business and somehow disappear forever from the online poker community.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
Faced with the 'facts' as presented, I have no problem believing it happened. Kudo's to all the folks who investigated, prodded, and exposed these wrongdoings.
That said, this may end up being one of the better incidents that could have happened in the wide world of online poker. Even for Absolute!
Should Absolute survive the next 3 months, what site could you point to and feel sure was the safest to play at. Absolute will have to go through the most rigorous self examination, as well as finding, patching, and preventing all future problem areas.
Do you really believe it hasn't happened, or can not happen again, at any site? Suppose for a moment that a similar incident happened at pokerstars, if they handle it slightly different from the very beginning, they avoid the public scrutiny, and embarrassment and hopefully improve their site, and our security in these frequent site updates.
For the accusations to be directed at Absolute, one must show that Absolute and or the current management was behind all of this. Rather I think that perhaps Absolute was the unwitting dupe used in this scheme. As old employees are often brought on as consultants, it is not out of the question that the consultant mentioned was the old CEO.
The fact that the whole poker community worldwide is involved in this fiasco, even if it is only on the informational side, is a good thing, not a scandal that threatens the sport. It will probably pave the way to a unified method for regulating all interested online gaming concerns.
Again, special kudos to those tenacious few who persevered in their investigation and brought to the forefront this example of a problem we as online players must deal with.
That said, this may end up being one of the better incidents that could have happened in the wide world of online poker. Even for Absolute!
Should Absolute survive the next 3 months, what site could you point to and feel sure was the safest to play at. Absolute will have to go through the most rigorous self examination, as well as finding, patching, and preventing all future problem areas.
Do you really believe it hasn't happened, or can not happen again, at any site? Suppose for a moment that a similar incident happened at pokerstars, if they handle it slightly different from the very beginning, they avoid the public scrutiny, and embarrassment and hopefully improve their site, and our security in these frequent site updates.
For the accusations to be directed at Absolute, one must show that Absolute and or the current management was behind all of this. Rather I think that perhaps Absolute was the unwitting dupe used in this scheme. As old employees are often brought on as consultants, it is not out of the question that the consultant mentioned was the old CEO.
The fact that the whole poker community worldwide is involved in this fiasco, even if it is only on the informational side, is a good thing, not a scandal that threatens the sport. It will probably pave the way to a unified method for regulating all interested online gaming concerns.
Again, special kudos to those tenacious few who persevered in their investigation and brought to the forefront this example of a problem we as online players must deal with.
Stick66
Legend
Silver Level
Looks like this crap may have been going on for as long as 3 YEARS!! Read more here:
Stick's Poker Blog: Just When You Thought It Was Over: More AP Stuff
And I'm convinced that UB is clean because the AP/UB merger is recent and the software each site uses is completely different from each other. The issue is with R&D accounts within AP's software.
Stick's Poker Blog: Just When You Thought It Was Over: More AP Stuff
And I'm convinced that UB is clean because the AP/UB merger is recent and the software each site uses is completely different from each other. The issue is with R&D accounts within AP's software.
narizblanco
Rock Star
Silver Level
People need something to blame when they lose. Online poker is truly random compared to a live dealer shuffling cards. Many strange outcomes are possible and they are remembered wheras more normal outcomes are soon forgotten. It would not be good business for a poker room to cheat. They just rake, rake, rake and THAT'S THE NAME OF THAT TUNE.
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
umm did you read the thread?
(a) the evidence is irrefutable
(b) Absolute actually admitted it
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