icemonkey9
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Hello everyone ... hopefully this msg in this large thread gets read by some of the regs here. I know i've tilted before, whined before, complained, etc etc. But I am really thinking this is the lowest point I've felt ever. I've tried playing 50nl the last few days and losing just continues and continues. I'm not sure what the problem is my mind is so f'd up right now when it comes to poker.
Here's something I expect someone to say: "Look at your entire history of hands. You'll notice this is just a small blip on that graph."
My answer: "Wrong. It looks like someone took a scud missle to my graph."
Yesterday I hit two sets and both lost, to a flush and then to a straight ... not sure how i could have played it better, but i tend to bet the hell out of sets at the flop.
Today:
My AA loses to 77 as he flats my 3bet and we go all in, with me being the one that shoves him (he had hit a set at the flop). Guess I blew that one.
My KK raises, MP2 shoves a full stack, I tank. AA??? I just make the call, he shows QQ and hits a set and wins.
I just keep loses stacks left and right. I mean, I know others have gone through much worse stretches and also have seen their entire month of profits go up in smoke like mine. I just don't know how you properly bounce back from something like this where you go 2 weeks and do nothing but lose (not even breakeven). I'm reviewing my hand histories, they look okay (no huge major mistakes from what I can tell), am watching videos, reading the HA threads ... but I just have this voodoo-joojoo on me I can't get rid of.
Any help/therapy/etc would be appreciated. I hit gold today so I think I might quit until the 1st, I just think 1 more bulls&*t hand and I might chuck my computer in the Tiajuana River.
http://www.icemonkey9.com/2008/11/shutting-down-for-november.html
Here's something I expect someone to say: "Look at your entire history of hands. You'll notice this is just a small blip on that graph."
My answer: "Wrong. It looks like someone took a scud missle to my graph."
Yesterday I hit two sets and both lost, to a flush and then to a straight ... not sure how i could have played it better, but i tend to bet the hell out of sets at the flop.
Today:
My AA loses to 77 as he flats my 3bet and we go all in, with me being the one that shoves him (he had hit a set at the flop). Guess I blew that one.
My KK raises, MP2 shoves a full stack, I tank. AA??? I just make the call, he shows QQ and hits a set and wins.
I just keep loses stacks left and right. I mean, I know others have gone through much worse stretches and also have seen their entire month of profits go up in smoke like mine. I just don't know how you properly bounce back from something like this where you go 2 weeks and do nothing but lose (not even breakeven). I'm reviewing my hand histories, they look okay (no huge major mistakes from what I can tell), am watching videos, reading the HA threads ... but I just have this voodoo-joojoo on me I can't get rid of.
Any help/therapy/etc would be appreciated. I hit gold today so I think I might quit until the 1st, I just think 1 more bulls&*t hand and I might chuck my computer in the Tiajuana River.
http://www.icemonkey9.com/2008/11/shutting-down-for-november.html
Last edited:
Jagsti
I'm sweet enough!
Silver Level
Ice, I'm seriously of the mind that no matter how you play the hand, when your on a run like this, it's just about limiting the losses. I really don't know what more you can say. You can look at the HH's as much as you like, a cooler is a cooler, a beat is a beat. The problem is it's cooler after cooler, beat after beat, there's nothing you can do except put up with it, drop down stakes or just take a break. Most of us can't be bothered taking a break, so to limit the losses drop down until the confidence returns. Really don't know what else to say, coz I'm in the same boat bro'.
S
switch0723
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Just look at the start of this thread for my advice. I started this month tilting like crazy from not being able to win a single fecking stack, took ~2 weeks out to 'play' sng's and now i'm back playing and feeling great. So my advice is just take a time out, best would be don't play poker at all for a bit, but you could always just play low stakes sng's just for the sake of it just to cool down and chill for a bit.
Or you could realise your awsome and its just won of those things and just play and play through, but if your anything like me that will go horribly wrong so taking time out is best.
ORRR play some HU
. This hand perfectly illustrates why 50nl is so profitable
1) every hand has 'odds' to call a 3 bet preflop with
2) any pair is good in a 3bet pot
--------------------
HAND #1
--------------------
poker stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 2 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker
Hero (BB): $51.30 (102.6 bb)
SB: $80.10 (160.2 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is BB with Q
Q
SB raises to $2, Hero raises to $6.50, SB calls $4.50
Flop: ($13) Q
9
7
(2 players)
Hero bets $7.50, SB calls $7.50
Turn: ($28) 7
(2 players)
Hero checks, SB checks
River: ($28) 2
(2 players)
Hero bets $21.50, SB calls $21.50
Results: $71 pot ($0.50 rake)
Hero showed Q
Q
(a full house, Queens full of Sevens) and won $70.50 ($35 net)
SB mucked K
9
(two pairs, Nines and Sevens) and lost (-$35.50 net)
technical point, anyone think i should shove river instead of value betting? its ~$15 more.
Or you could realise your awsome and its just won of those things and just play and play through, but if your anything like me that will go horribly wrong so taking time out is best.
ORRR play some HU
. This hand perfectly illustrates why 50nl is so profitable1) every hand has 'odds' to call a 3 bet preflop with
2) any pair is good in a 3bet pot
--------------------
HAND #1
--------------------
poker stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 2 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker
Hero (BB): $51.30 (102.6 bb)
SB: $80.10 (160.2 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is BB with Q
SB raises to $2, Hero raises to $6.50, SB calls $4.50
Flop: ($13) Q
Hero bets $7.50, SB calls $7.50
Turn: ($28) 7
Hero checks, SB checks
River: ($28) 2
Hero bets $21.50, SB calls $21.50
Results: $71 pot ($0.50 rake)
Hero showed Q
SB mucked K
technical point, anyone think i should shove river instead of value betting? its ~$15 more.
F
feitr
Legend
Silver Level
Yea if you are playing fine and it is beats/coolers then don't even bother looking at your hands as it is just depressing. Everybody goes through it-- you literally begin to think you must be a losing player and cannot remember what it feels like to run good. You don't even want to make "correct" plays coz putting money in the middle just means you are going to lose it.
Drop down, do not look at your graph or bankroll, don't look at this thread (this thread is hella drepressing IMO when you are running bad) maybe try playing sngs or a different gametype (FR, etc.) and mostly imo it is finding other interesting/enjoyable things in your life that mean that losing some money in poker isn't that big of a deal in the big picture.
And switch, um just bet turn and you don't have that problem. Surely if villain thinks you are enough of a spaz to overbetshove the river as a bluff, he could see a 3 barrel as a bluff.
On another topic, does anybody know of good non-US sites to play that have 50c rake in HU games + good rakeback or bonuses (ie. not ipoker)? Multitabling software doesn't have to be fantastic, since i'd probably only 2 table anyways.
I have not even made silverstar on Stars this month yet, and so realistically if i continue to play HU there is absolutely 0 point to playing on stars where i might get like 3% rakeback.
Drop down, do not look at your graph or bankroll, don't look at this thread (this thread is hella drepressing IMO when you are running bad) maybe try playing sngs or a different gametype (FR, etc.) and mostly imo it is finding other interesting/enjoyable things in your life that mean that losing some money in poker isn't that big of a deal in the big picture.
And switch, um just bet turn and you don't have that problem. Surely if villain thinks you are enough of a spaz to overbetshove the river as a bluff, he could see a 3 barrel as a bluff.
On another topic, does anybody know of good non-US sites to play that have 50c rake in HU games + good rakeback or bonuses (ie. not ipoker)? Multitabling software doesn't have to be fantastic, since i'd probably only 2 table anyways.
I have not even made silverstar on Stars this month yet, and so realistically if i continue to play HU there is absolutely 0 point to playing on stars where i might get like 3% rakeback.
S
switch0723
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
meh, i didn't know whether or not to bet the turn since we have the deck strangled, if villain has a 7 we get all the chips anyway, and only a queen/big 9's are calling the turn whereas he could have called the flop with a ton of draws/ace high's pp's. Checking gives him bluffing opportunites/chances to hit draws/ allows villain to call light on river thinknig im 'bluffing'
nor me
, we'll be grateful when we are beating 1knl and only paying 50 cent rake in 2k pots
blankoblanco
plays poker on hard mode
Silver Level
i like the check. betting again looks so strong. we have the board pretty crippled, and we bet the flop very small. both of these factors increase the likelihood of villain floating the flop light. he's going to bet pretty much all his draws/anything he floated if we check turn to him. the only things he might not bet are 9x, any pocket pair under Q, maybe not a Q. but he also very easily could choose to bet any of these for protection. and if he doesn't, it doesn't even necessarily mean we lost value become some of those will fold to a turn bet but call a river bet after the turn checks through
F
feitr
Legend
Silver Level
yea a check is perfectly fine, what i was saying is that if he wanted to play for stacks then he has to bet turn. You check turn to induce light river calls that would have folded to a turn barrel as they knew they couldn't stand another bet, induce bluffs or hope a draw fills up. But if you are going to do this, you can't overshove the river, which is very dynamic based and in order for villain to call you down that lightly, they aren't folding their hand to a 3 barrel.
And from a results oriented point of view then the line taken was the best to extract max value from villain's hand.
F
feitr
Legend
Silver Level
And i have no idea wtf is going on this month with me but i am just BLEEDING in NSD pots. I have always been a decent/slight winner in NSD pots but this month the red line is literally straight down.
I really don't know if that is good or bad tho. I figured out sometime last month that i was not playing the loose passive fish very well, and so i decided to TAG it right up and to play pretty much ABC poker. Now that means i'm not only bleeding a fair bit preflop, but it basically means that i am almost never winning a NSD pot unless i am finding good spots to double barrel, etc. And frankly vs players who never fold you simply cannot win NSD pots (think about it). I've also run into some pretty crazy maniacs this month and so i've probably folded way too much to 3Bs and don't even bother 4B bluffing, since some of these guys are so spazzy they will just ship it in with trash, or flat the 4B. It has been mostly in the last 4k hands as well, where i am -$800 in NSD (disgusting i know) but i'm up $1100 in the same period (so SD winnings must be $1900).
At the start of the month i was running really really good in showdown pots (was getting lucky in all in EV) but i was getting set up worse than i have ever seen (basically playing fish in godmode who would have 100% vpip and never miss a hand, ever). Like there was a point there where i literally could not win a single hand to save my life. But i'm not even sure if that would explain it, and as i said that certainly hasn't happened in the last 4k hands, which is where most of the bleeding has been (well actually only about half of it). It just keeps getting worse and worse.
To me it makes sense that if you are playing bad players who are way too loose passive, or way too aggressive pre and spewy postflop that it is just to play a value based game, nit it up, and take a HUGE hit in NSD pots. Coz these guys can't realise that you are losing alot in NSD pots and adapt, because they are just plain leaky.
I'm pretty embarrassed to post graph, but i would really like some thoughts about "fixing" this (i could ofc just go back to playing "normal" but i really don't think i was playing ideally vs the really bad players).
Anyways, i remember seeing a graph justl ike this on 2+2 (huge sample size tho) and it was pretty lol, so feel free to laugh at me coz well ima fish. Fwiw, my first month of HU was almost the reverse of this (ie. winnings were from NSD at expense of SD)
I really don't know if that is good or bad tho. I figured out sometime last month that i was not playing the loose passive fish very well, and so i decided to TAG it right up and to play pretty much ABC poker. Now that means i'm not only bleeding a fair bit preflop, but it basically means that i am almost never winning a NSD pot unless i am finding good spots to double barrel, etc. And frankly vs players who never fold you simply cannot win NSD pots (think about it). I've also run into some pretty crazy maniacs this month and so i've probably folded way too much to 3Bs and don't even bother 4B bluffing, since some of these guys are so spazzy they will just ship it in with trash, or flat the 4B. It has been mostly in the last 4k hands as well, where i am -$800 in NSD (disgusting i know) but i'm up $1100 in the same period (so SD winnings must be $1900).
At the start of the month i was running really really good in showdown pots (was getting lucky in all in EV) but i was getting set up worse than i have ever seen (basically playing fish in godmode who would have 100% vpip and never miss a hand, ever). Like there was a point there where i literally could not win a single hand to save my life. But i'm not even sure if that would explain it, and as i said that certainly hasn't happened in the last 4k hands, which is where most of the bleeding has been (well actually only about half of it
). It just keeps getting worse and worse. To me it makes sense that if you are playing bad players who are way too loose passive, or way too aggressive pre and spewy postflop that it is just to play a value based game, nit it up, and take a HUGE hit in NSD pots. Coz these guys can't realise that you are losing alot in NSD pots and adapt, because they are just plain leaky.
I'm pretty embarrassed to post graph, but i would really like some thoughts about "fixing" this (i could ofc just go back to playing "normal" but i really don't think i was playing ideally vs the really bad players).
Anyways, i remember seeing a graph justl ike this on 2+2 (huge sample size tho) and it was pretty lol, so feel free to laugh at me coz well ima fish. Fwiw, my first month of HU was almost the reverse of this (ie. winnings were from NSD at expense of SD)
Attachments
S
switch0723
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
since vanq is struggling with life at the mo, a little something that should cheer him up a bit
A treat for your ears imo, and i know you'll like it sir
A treat for your ears imo, and i know you'll like it sir
F
feitr
Legend
Silver Level
Mine looks the same feitr
If you are winning 2-4BB/100 over a big enough sample then is it a problem?
Yea but i don't play FR
And TAGs at FR would be expected to lose in NSD pots. Idk i'll just keep up with it for a bit i guess, ultimately i'm still at 9BB/100 for nl100 HU, which is $60/hr so it isn't like i am worried sick or anything. I just never realised just how bad the graph looked. Here is total HU for reference, the huge NSD dip occured when i decided to play much tighter vs bad players. I just got to the point where i was like screw this i'm not going to try to run big bluffs against these guys, nor 3B light or 4B bluff and since they are never folding i'm not going to manage to win NSD pots, but just work on getting really thin value.
Attachments
Monoxide
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Lets play guess the songs, you only get a sample of the lyrics.
~Ive gotten frozen by the way you walked
~By the love that you gave ~ by that look on your face
It's a coverup...
...I know everything....I know everything....
------------------------
It's bugging me....
Grating me....
And twisting me around.
Yeah I'm endlessly....
Caving in....
And turning ~ inside out.
'Cause I want it nowwww
I want it nowwww
Give me your heart and your souuuul
And I'm breaking ooout
I'm breaking ooout
Last chance to lose control...!!
~Ive gotten frozen by the way you walked
~By the love that you gave ~ by that look on your face
It's a coverup...
...I know everything....I know everything....
------------------------
It's bugging me....
Grating me....
And twisting me around.
Yeah I'm endlessly....
Caving in....
And turning ~ inside out.
'Cause I want it nowwww
I want it nowwww
Give me your heart and your souuuul
And I'm breaking ooout
I'm breaking ooout
Last chance to lose control...!!
Last edited:
Jagsti
I'm sweet enough!
Silver Level
And i have no idea wtf is going on this month with me but i am just BLEEDING in NSD pots. I have always been a decent/slight winner in NSD pots but this month the red line is literally straight down.
I really don't know if that is good or bad tho. I figured out sometime last month that i was not playing the loose passive fish very well, and so i decided to TAG it right up and to play pretty much ABC poker. Now that means i'm not only bleeding a fair bit preflop, but it basically means that i am almost never winning a NSD pot unless i am finding good spots to double barrel, etc. And frankly vs players who never fold you simply cannot win NSD pots (think about it). I've also run into some pretty crazy maniacs this month and so i've probably folded way too much to 3Bs and don't even bother 4B bluffing, since some of these guys are so spazzy they will just ship it in with trash, or flat the 4B. It has been mostly in the last 4k hands as well, where i am -$800 in NSD (disgusting i know) but i'm up $1100 in the same period (so SD winnings must be $1900).
At the start of the month i was running really really good in showdown pots (was getting lucky in all in EV) but i was getting set up worse than i have ever seen (basically playing fish in godmode who would have 100% vpip and never miss a hand, ever). Like there was a point there where i literally could not win a single hand to save my life. But i'm not even sure if that would explain it, and as i said that certainly hasn't happened in the last 4k hands, which is where most of the bleeding has been (well actually only about half of it
To me it makes sense that if you are playing bad players who are way too loose passive, or way too aggressive pre and spewy postflop that it is just to play a value based game, nit it up, and take a HUGE hit in NSD pots. Coz these guys can't realise that you are losing alot in NSD pots and adapt, because they are just plain leaky.
I'm pretty embarrassed to post graph, but i would really like some thoughts about "fixing" this (i could ofc just go back to playing "normal" but i really don't think i was playing ideally vs the really bad players).
Anyways, i remember seeing a graph justl ike this on 2+2 (huge sample size tho) and it was pretty lol, so feel free to laugh at me coz well ima fish. Fwiw, my first month of HU was almost the reverse of this (ie. winnings were from NSD at expense of SD)
Well NSD pots whether fr or 6mx is all about style. I think most TAG's will lose a certain amount in NSD pots in FR. My NSD goes down pretty consistently, and I think the only players who can consistenly get the NSD line going upwards are mainly calling stations or LAG's who possibly have to sacrifice SD winnings as a consequence.... or you could be Chuck and just have everything going up <ahem> so to speak
.The only times I have my red line level or going up is when I'm running goot in 6max all other times it pretty much goes down.
Monoxide
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
omfg roulette is a fun devils game, the little ball and the spinning and moneys and the GLOIVEN GLAIVEN! on the table just makes you want to gambol.
i know i cant win long run but winning short term on roulette is like the most fun thing ever. Its not like im risking anything except my profits from the 2/5 donks, right? right?!?! lol i dont want to get addicted to gambling. $200 on black though gets the blood going, watching that little bastard bounce around for your moneyz...
i know i cant win long run but winning short term on roulette is like the most fun thing ever. Its not like im risking anything except my profits from the 2/5 donks, right? right?!?! lol i dont want to get addicted to gambling. $200 on black though gets the blood going, watching that little bastard bounce around for your moneyz...
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Jagsti
I'm sweet enough!
Silver Level
Have you been smokin da ganja!!!????
F Paulsson
euro love
Silver Level
Second coaching session last night. I'm starting to get better at this game, I think. 3-betting and stealing with any-two versus tight opponents is becoming second nature. Major leak right now is calling 3-bets a bit too lightly myself, but I think I just have a set-fetisch that I need to curb.
Best $200/hour I've spent playing poker. Rawr.
Best $200/hour I've spent playing poker. Rawr.
Jagsti
I'm sweet enough!
Silver Level
Like, why am I even surprised he has the f'kin virtual nuts.....
--------------------
HAND #1
--------------------
Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 2 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker
Hero (SB): $50 (100 bb)
BB: $73.75 (147.5 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with 6
6
Hero raises to $1.75, BB raises to $5.50, Hero calls $3.75
Flop: ($11) 6
A
K
(2 players)
BB bets $5.50, Hero calls $5.50
Turn: ($22) 5
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $9, BB calls $9
River: ($40) 8
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $30 and is all-in, BB calls $30
Results: $100 pot ($0.50 rake)
Hero showed 6
6
(three of a kind, Sixes) and lost (-$50 net)
BB showed A
A
(three of a kind, Aces) and won $99.50 ($49.50 net)
--------------------
HAND #1
--------------------
Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 2 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker
Hero (SB): $50 (100 bb)
BB: $73.75 (147.5 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with 6
Hero raises to $1.75, BB raises to $5.50, Hero calls $3.75
Flop: ($11) 6
BB bets $5.50, Hero calls $5.50
Turn: ($22) 5
BB checks, Hero bets $9, BB calls $9
River: ($40) 8
BB checks, Hero bets $30 and is all-in, BB calls $30
Results: $100 pot ($0.50 rake)
Hero showed 6
BB showed A
icemonkey9
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
WVHillbilly and I had a fun late night chat last night. He won a $5 SNG and I finished 4th in a 45-man MTT ($1 buyin) for a $5 prize. Felt good to WIN.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I think we will all be super happy when Nov is over so we can start with clean slates for Dec.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I think we will all be super happy when Nov is over so we can start with clean slates for Dec.