DOJ adds Lederer/Ferguson/Furst to Complaint - Claims defrauded poker players

[PurgatoryD]

Yeah, the US is now calling FTP a "global Ponzi scheme".

So does anyone have the numbers in terms of how much money FTP actually held in reserves? FTP was making good money on the rake, so 100% of player deposits should have been sitting in a reserve account somewhere. If it wasn't, they were asking for trouble.

Maybe when the dust settles we'll get all the facts?

 

[nevadanick]

Picked up the story first on my news feeds, then saw the REAL irony in the situation.

Do online players now have a better idea of where FT and others applied their BRM ?? ... :rofl: :rofl:

Maybe the course they really meant to teach at Full Tilt Academy was Bank Roll Manipulation ...

********************************

 

[nevadanick]

Yeah, the US is now calling FTP a "global Ponzi scheme".

So does anyone have the numbers in terms of how much money FTP actually held in reserves? FTP was making good money on the rake, so 100% of player deposits should have been sitting in a reserve account somewhere. If it wasn't, they were asking for trouble.

Maybe when the dust settles we'll get all the facts?

If you followed the story, there was no legal requirement for FT or other sites to keep ANY reserve. All we had was THEIR WORD as trusted poker pros that your money was SAFE. So far, pokerstars was the only site required to keep player funds segregated which is why they alone were able to repay players with the appropriate funds.

***************************

 

[lilybo]

I saw this today on my Yahoo page, first time I remember hearing the words "ponzi scheme" mentioned.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/09/feds-accuse-full-tilt-poker-of-being-ponzi-scheme/1?csp=34news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28News+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

 

[deucem]

Fulltilt - Online poker site a 'global Ponzi scheme'

International online gambling site full tilt poker stole $US440 million ($431.29 million) from players around the world in a Ponzi scheme used to pay lavish fees to board members, US prosecutors say.
Full Tilt "defrauded players by misrepresenting that their funds on deposit in online gambling accounts were safe, secure, and available for withdrawal at any time", the US Attorney's office for Southern Manhattan said on Tuesday.
"In reality, Full Tilt Poker did not maintain funds sufficient to repay all players, and in addition, the company used player funds to pay board members and other owners more than $440 million since April 2007."
The senior prosecutor, US Attorney Preet Bharara, said the site's top figures, including famed poker champions Howard Lederer and Christopher Ferguson, "lined their own pockets with funds picked from the pockets of their most loyal customers while blithely lying to both players and the public alike about the safety and security of the money deposited with the company".
In a classic pyramid scheme, gamblers were given the impression that they still had money deposited and were allowed to keep gambling, even when all that remained were "phantom" funds, prosecutors said.
The company ended up owing $US390 million worldwide.
"Full Tilt was not a legitimate poker company, but a global Ponzi scheme," Bharara said.
Full Tilt Poker was first sued by federal authorities in April as part of a broader crackdown on online gambling, which the Justice Department says is illegal.
The suit was revised and refiled on Tuesday in the still developing investigation.
According to The Wall Street Journal, Full Tilt attracted thousands of players betting billions of dollars annually.




http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...ite-a-global-ponzi-scheme-20110921-1kk0w.html

 

[onemorechance]

Fwiw durrrr is conducting what I'm sure will become a huge Q&A thread on the other forum. Although if you don't want to wade through the shite that I'm sure will infest it then you might want to wait for the interviews regarding FT he says he'll be looking to do in next few days (he specifically mentioned a possible interview with NoahSD)

 

[Charade You Are]

Gotta give durrrr credited for showing up especially with the "Do you still respect durrrrr" poll. He's been on and off most of the day posting in the other thread.

And he's still saying he'll pay off on his guarantee.

 

[jazzaxe]

Err, they ran the company. They are named specifically by the DoJ, so the DoJ evidently has something linking them to the situation at hand - there are other shareholders who haven't been mentioned, after all. There is no way they can possibly plead ignorance (well they could try, but it wouldn't work). Despite all the hate (some justified, some not) being thrown at the DoJ for their oppressive stance towards online poker, without their interference in this case Lederer, Bitar et al could have got away with the alleged crimes indefinitely, and that is really scary.

Anyway, there is no chance that FT survives this. The damage has been done regardless of whether criminal proceedings are initiated and regardless of the results of any civil/criminal proceedings. This isn't another UB-style situation where the masses were ignorant to the scam, this will go mainstream (if it hasn't already).

Looking optimistically at the situation for a moment, this whole situation appears to me like a giant neon sign advertising regulation of online poker in the US. Hopefully the government will see it the same way.

Err, thanks for the interpretation, but I read the article, and do know that they were on the board of directors. I prefaced my comments about them with the word if which presupposes that they may not necessarily be guilty. Please read the entire post and you will see that my major bone of contention is with the Obama-Nation DOJ and its imperious action concerning a non-American business. Personally, I resent the actions of Full Tilt poker. I am certain that the seizure was a major determinent of their failure and we would all still be playing if the DOJ had not prosecuted in the first place.

 

[blueskies]

It's always the nameless little guys getting reamed in the ass.

 

[nevadanick]

Note to jaymfc....

lose the hat......

Shave the beard, work on a swedish accent......

^^^^^^^^^^^ LOL ... :rofl: :rofl:

Is this Jay or Chris with Howard at the next live Vegas event ...

**********************************************

 

[Charade You Are]

^^^^^^^^^^^ LOL ... :rofl: :rofl:

Is this Jay or Chris with Howard at the next live Vegas event ...

I think Chris is the tall one.

 

[MAX101]

WOW, I guess I can stop holding my breath about getting any money back LOL,wonder whats coming next? taxes,regulation,those 19.99 sites are starting to look better an better, I REALLY HATE THE THOUGHT OF KISSING MY FKN MONEY GOOD BYE!!!!!!!!

 

[dmorris68]

Talk about going mainstream. The FTP story at Forbes is currently tracking as their most popular news story.

 

[nightmoves44]

!!!

I would love to see the proof for this ponzi scheme.If it really is true.,I hope they all go down.
Its a shame because fulltilt had a great site that coulda produced money for all.The few greedy,ruin it tho.This just goes to show how bad we really need honest legislation and protection from gamig sites.

 

[mrmonkey]

Horrible press for what IMO is nothing really yet substantiated. Apparently the lead prosecutor in the case is known for sensationalist media manipulation, and it does make me wonder a bit about who or what entities might be funding this. Really, how does this make the absolute top story of Google news and many of the major financial news outlets?

That said, I still think Full Tilt was horribly mismanaged and that there probably WAS some level of embezzlement going on, but to just drag Lederer and Ferguson's and all the other Full Tilt Pro's names through the mud when I'm not really sure how involved they really were with the business side of things just makes it kind of seem like a smear campaign.

My view on this is to watch the actual facts come out as things unfold, and make your decisions based on those later findings.

One thing about all this though -- if this type of behavior was occurring with Full Tilt for years under the "watchful" eye of the Alderney Gaming Commission, it does make you wonder exactly how well regulated even PokerStars is. Sure, they may have a better business model and board of directors and they had enough cash in their accounts to payback US players, but we really don't know how things operate behind the scenes there either. Is it possible they had enough cash to pay back their US players but not enough to cover the rest of the world? Sure, I don't see how we could really substantiate it one way or another.

Taking this a step further, there's really hardly any safety net for tying your funds with any major corporation or institution. Exactly how poorly-regulated yet universally trusted were Enron and Fannie Mae?

 

[Makwa]

sorry to hear

be careful online

 

[coolnout]

Talk about going mainstream. The FTP story at Forbes is currently tracking as their most popular news story.

ya it's blowing up quick. just saw it on yahoo with lederers and ferguson pics - and 400$ million ponzi scheme attached.

 

[Four Dogs]

In a true Ponzi Scheme, investors are promised unrealistic rates of return on their investments and are then paid off with funds raised by subsequent investors. It's all an illusion as no money is actually ever invested in anything. The big difference is that Full Tilt is not an investment broker and never promised any return at all. FTP may be guilty of alot of things but as far as I can tell this whole talk of a Ponzi scheme is just alot of noise concocted by the DOJ to scare the public discredit the entire online poker industry.

 

[JusSumguy]

If you're taking stacked money while relying on investors to replenish it... it's a ponzi scheme.


-

 

[dmorris68]

ya it's blowing up quick. just saw it on yahoo with lederers and ferguson pics - and 400$ million ponzi scheme attached.

It also just landed on my Slashdot RSS feed and is now up at that paragon of online tabloid journalism, The Smoking Gun. Ugh, this isn't the kind of mainstream attention online poker needs right now.

 

[OzExorcist]

One thing about all this though -- if this type of behavior was occurring with Full Tilt for years under the "watchful" eye of the Alderney Gaming Commission, it does make you wonder exactly how well regulated even PokerStars is. Sure, they may have a better business model and board of directors and they had enough cash in their accounts to payback US players, but we really don't know how things operate behind the scenes there either. Is it possible they had enough cash to pay back their US players but not enough to cover the rest of the world? Sure, I don't see how we could really substantiate it one way or another.

Keep in mind that Stars is licensed and regulated in the Isle of Man, not Alderney, and as such is subject to very different requirements. Segregation of player funds was mandatory for them, whereas it was just optional for Full Tilt.

So while it's obviously impossible to know for sure, I'd be very surprised if it ever turned out that they didn't have enough cash on hand to pay out every single one of their players around the world.

 

[JusSumguy]

Keep in mind that Stars is licensed and regulated in the Isle of Man

-
​

 

[OzExorcist]

...not really sure of the relevance? Yes, they're licensed in a place that also hosts a motorcycle race.

 

[JusSumguy]

...not really sure of the relevance? Yes, they're licensed in a place that also hosts a motorcycle race.

No relevance at all. Your logic center remains intact.

Coolest motorcycle race in the world.


-

 

[Dreams of Tragedy]

I knew things were not good when this went down