****Vinylspiros smashEMup@5NL***thread

[RamdeeBen]

I agree ram. and thats why i posted it. did you see the graph at the end of page 2?

Yeah. That's what I mean I think you're being WAY to over aggressive for 5nl.

Personally I think at 2nl-25nl you should be focusing on value betting; (blue line) and not none showdown winning. Not sure if you're looking at trying to keep your red line going upwards; but if you are then expect your non show down winnings to drop, along with your green line like it is doing because it's just not needed. You have to remember that people call a lot lighter and way to often in and out of position meaning you shouldn't be playing aggressively with marginal/air hands because they wont fold 4th pair and you simple wont profit enough from non show winnings to out weigh your show down losses.

 

[orangepeeleo]

I agree with Ram, the red line shooting up and the blue plummeting is the complete opposite of the standard TAG graph at 5nl, because fish's biggest leak is calling too much, like calling 3bets far to lose pre and stacking off with top pairs and GS's etc....... oh so we should be making a decent amount from making villains call with worse.

Redlines dont have to be plummeting but in my exp i've never had a redline > b/e playing at the micro's.

 

[orangepeeleo]

He totally beat me to it

 

[micromachine]

Is the redline on your graph non-showdown winnings vinyl??

 

[Cafeman]

Redlines dont have to be plummeting but in my exp i've never had a redline > b/e playing at the micro's.

Mine too. And yes MM, that's his nonSD winnings.

 

[vinylspiros]

so guys. can u please explain what you mean about the red line andblue line in a more simple way? Am i bluffing people out of hands? what does it seam like im doing? and why?(according to the red and blue line)? not getting value out of my good hands?

 

[vinylspiros]

Is the redline on your graph non-showdown winnings vinyl??

yea. what does it mean when its that high?

 

[micromachine]

Right, then I agree with Peels and Ram, SD winnings is where the money is at at 5nl.

 

[Cafeman]

I thought you already went through this in the Skype group? Your redline is tracking the money you win when your opponents fold before showdown. The blueline is tracking the money you win when you win at showdown.

 

[vinylspiros]

I thought you already went through this in the Skype group? Your redline is tracking the money you win when your opponents fold before showdown. The blueline is tracking the money you win when you win at showdown.

right right. ok i see what you mean. So i should be bluffing less and value betting more in a nutshell right?

 

[Cafeman]

And when I say win, that can also be negative, e.g. when you lose at showdown

 

[Cafeman]

right right. ok i see what you mean. So i should be bluffing less and value betting more in a nutshell right?

Yip!

 

[micromachine]

yea. what does it mean when its that high?

It means you make people fold a lot by being aggressive...3betting a lot, bluffing a lot etc. As others said it generally doesn't work well at 5nl. You'll make a lot more money making good hands and getting max value from the fish than you will getting into aggro wars with the regs. If you fold more, bluff less and punish them with strong hands your redline will suffer but your blue will skyrocket.

 

[vinylspiros]

so,to be honest , does the graph say that im a donk.?

 

[Cafeman]

Honestly, I would have you marked down as 'bad aggro'.

 

[vinylspiros]

It means you make people fold a lot by being aggressive...3betting a lot, bluffing a lot etc. As others said it generally doesn't work well at 5nl. You'll make a lot more money making good hands and getting max value from the fish than you will getting into aggro wars with the regs. If you fold more, bluff less and punish them with strong hands your redline will suffer but your blue will skyrocket.

i hear you micro.thanks alot. Will definitely be altering my game,esp at these limits.. good to hear this feedback. will help me for sure. so thankful.

 

[vinylspiros]

Honestly, I would have you marked down as 'bad aggro'.

good to hear man. priceless info.

 

[RamdeeBen]

so,to be honest , does the graph say that im a donk.?

It says you're trying to get way to creative and push fish of hands they are never going to fold because they only play their hand and wont factor what you're trying to rep.

Like I say; just focus on betting strong hands and mucking marginal/bluff hands because they simply wont fold.

I think the best of players would even struggle to keep a rising red line + blue line at the micros. I think also when that thread was made by LD about how unbeatable micros was because "fish just cal to muchl" and you also agreed, however it all comes down to how you're playing not them.

value betting is key at micros not fancy plays which I'm assuming you must be doing. Just watch cafemans video in that thread and you'll see, he does nothing creative and just value bets..over a long sample size of say your 16k hands you already played this - you'd be showing a profit now had you played more solid and been more selective over hands you played.

 

[ScottishMatt]

Be grateful it is only "bad aggro" it can get much worse. Imagine "french" . . .

 

[vinylspiros]

It says you're trying to get way to creative and push fish of hands they are never going to fold because they only play their hand and wont factor what you're trying to rep.

Like I say; just focus on betting strong hands and mucking marginal/bluff hands because they simply wont fold.

I think the best of players would even struggle to keep a rising red line + blue line at the micros. I think also when that thread was made by LD about how unbeatable micros was because "fish just cal to muchl" and you also agreed, however it all comes down to how you're playing not them.

value betting is key at micros not fancy plays which I'm assuming you must be doing.

i got you ram. thanks alot for the info. your right. that's exactly what im doing. cause i just wanna win everything. Will learn to control this and play more solid.abc type poker. thnks for this and all of your posts. much appreciated.

 

[vinylspiros]

Something really interesting is, that during the first 8k hands of the graph when the red line is still below the green one i was playing standard 6max. It's only when i switched to zoom that my whole game play changed. thats when the red starts going up.


Zoom has a wierd dynamic for me and makes me play looser than usual. im going to try and treat it like a proper 6max and stop being so over aggro for no reason.

 

[Cafeman]

Be grateful it is only "bad aggro" it can get much worse. Imagine "french" . . .

As it happens my default assumption is 'bad aggro' while playing against Frenchies

 

[micromachine]

Something really interesting is, that during the first 8k hands of the graph when the red line is still below the green one i was playing standard 6max. It's only when i switched to zoom that my whole game play changed. thats when the red starts going up.


Zoom has a wierd dynamic for me and makes me play looser than usual. im going to try and treat it like a proper 6max and stop being so over aggro for no reason.

Get rid of the Zoom!! I've played 5nl regular and a bit of 5nl zoom and 5nl regular seems way easier with many more fish(if you table select a bit) - I labelled someone on my right a a likely fish last night and sure enough he gave me his 200bb stack AIPF with 77 a few hands later

 

[vinylspiros]

Get rid of the Zoom!! I've played 5nl regular and a bit of 5nl zoom and 5nl regular seems way easier with many more fish(if you table select a bit) - I labelled someone on my right a a likely fish last night and sure enough he gave me his 200bb stack AIPF with 77 a few hands later

with table selection we look for the highest vpip's? or highest players per pot or biggest pots? or all of the above? or just the ones where we see the fish we know?

 

[micromachine]

Look for tables with high players per pot in the lobby, at peak times I normally join the waiting lists for tables 30%+ players per pot and less than 2 people already on the list. Also I look for tables where villains have less than 100bb stacks (indicates they don't use auto top-up = fish), you don't want to be playing against shorties but 60-90bb stacks are nice I also have most of the regs colour coded so I don't sit if there are too many of them on the table.

Then on the tables I just watch and try and work out who is going to give me their money. If no-one seems like a fish of if the fish get busted and leave I close the table and find another.

This is difficult if you play a lot of tables, it takes observation and time and works best for me if I'm playing 4 tables but can just about manage it with 6,