****Vinylspiros smashEMup@5NL***thread

[Poker Orifice]

Some questions for ya:

Are you mostly playing 'ZOOM' tables on Stars?
If so,
... is it 5nl 6max?
... do you play more than one table? (how many?)
... what sort of winrate do you have at 5nl ZOOM?


I'm curious because I just recently started playing a bit of 'SPEED' tables on iPoker network (mostly just to get some points to qualify for some regional restricted freerolls (ie. $3k LATM, $2.5k Canadian Special, $5k Carribean & a few others).

I started dabbling a couple weeks ago, now usually playing 3-tables. When the site is busy there's around 225 to 250 players on ZOOM 5nl 6max (other times there's only 60-75 players... keep in mind that some of them are 4-tabling... & some even 6-tabling). Obviously can't get as many hands during non-peak times (table pauses & takes a moment or two to fill up). Yah so when it's busy I figure it's ~250hands/hr. per table.
Just wanted some comparisons to Stars.

tks.

 

[vinylspiros]

Some questions for ya:

Are you mostly playing 'ZOOM' tables on Stars? Yes, im playing zoom only on stars

If so,
... is it 5nl 6max? Yes, during the most part of this thread i was playing 5 NL 6max(threw in some 10NL but most hands were from 5NL )

... do you play more than one table? (how many?) 2 tables is my limit,throwing a third in the mix is just a headache and IMO more than necessary if you want to maintain a winrate


On stars there are around 700 people (on average playing 5NL zoom on any given day)(give or take 100 players).
... what sort of winrate do you have at 5nl ZOOM?


Now to answer this question. In all honesty i think its pretty easy to maintain a winrate of even 15bb/100 at 5NL on stars( ASSUMING and that is a big assuming, you dont go haywire and blow it all off like i do very often and either tilt or play too aggressively). I'll let you take a look at what i got since the beginning of this thread that was made on july first untill today for all hands i played for zoom 5NL and 10NL and i'll let you reach your own conclusions. I am (as everyone probably knows) over aggro and lose alot of money due to this. Now this is going to look very wierd but i do better at 10NL than i do at 5NL and thats probably because my agression gets alot more folds amongst the more thinking players i play against at 10NL than the ones i play against at 5NL .


Here it is for 5NL:









same old oover aggro crap , i just couldnt stop it at 5NL so i got a negative winrate.

Take a look at the 10NL hands i played at 6max zoom during the same time period though.

And here it is for 10NL:







As you can see in the graph, at some point i was up 20 buy ins but thats when i got all ****y and unlucky and started tilting. I think the stats are better answers to your questions than anything that i would tell you.

In general though i think that IF someone has the patience to play 5NL zoom and plays tight(cause at 5NL tight is right) then i dont think it should be a problem to maintain a winrate of 10BB/100 and above over 50k hands and move up to 10NL where you will find that the game is somewhat better(cause villains are playing well and not playing like its a donkament).




I'm curious because I just recently started playing a bit of 'SPEED' tables on iPoker network (mostly just to get some points to qualify for some regional restricted freerolls (ie. $3k LATM, $2.5k Canadian Special, $5k Carribean & a few others).

I started dabbling a couple weeks ago, now usually playing 3-tables. When the site is busy there's around 225 to 250 players on ZOOM 5nl 6max (other times there's only 60-75 players... keep in mind that some of them are 4-tabling... & some even 6-tabling). Obviously can't get as many hands during non-peak times (table pauses & takes a moment or two to fill up). Yah so when it's busy I figure it's ~250hands/hr. per table.
Just wanted some comparisons to Stars.

tks.

In conclusion PO and for what its worth,i think that 2 tables is fine even though they might have a little delay here and there due to not having enough players on the site your playing. Just play tight and i'm sure you will be crushing the limit, esp with alll that poker knowledge you got going on in your brain.

Thing is, even with the negative winrate at 5NL ,my bankroll never stopped growing cause i got a lot of rakeback and fpp cash rewards as well as VPP cash rewards so just the volume you can get in playing ZOOM or rush or whatever compensates long downswings and can make you be breakeven or even winning even if your winrate is not exactly where you wanted it to be.


Two tabling zoom can get you around 2 k hands per day assuming you put in like 3 or 4 hours i guess. I could be off here but i remember putting in like 2 k hands a day more or less. Somedays i would put in 5 k hands a day but those days were like marathons.


I myself barely found time to play any poker during august as i was on vacation for the most part and am currently on another vacation in ASIA as im typing this, but i hope this helped man and lemme know how it went.



peace out PO.

 

[Poker Orifice]

how many hands/hr. for one table? (during peak times on iPoker I think I avg. around 250hands/hr., per table).

I'm playing it on a couple of sites right now... only ~7,000 hands played so far.
So far have a winrate of 26.4bb/100 but still small sample size. (would post graph but am not using a HUD for it).
I'm guessing the play is quite a bit different from Stars (I will check it out)... there's ALOT of 40bb stacks on the iPoker SPEED tables with many of them 5 to 6 tabling.

tks for the response

 

[vinylspiros]

how many hands/hr. for one table? (during peak times on iPoker I think I avg. around 250hands/hr., per table).

I'm playing it on a couple of sites right now... only ~7,000 hands played so far.
So far have a winrate of 26.4bb/100 but still small sample size. (would post graph but am not using a HUD for it).
I'm guessing the play is quite a bit different from Stars (I will check it out)... there's ALOT of 40bb stacks on the iPoker SPEED tables with many of them 5 to 6 tabling.

tks for the response

26.4 bb/100 is great and i honestly think its sutainable .(if not that high then maybe a bit less but still it's easy to beat). yea 250 hands per hour per table on average sounds about right. maybe even 300 depending on the speed of the table.

 

[Aces2w1n]

Thing is Vinyl I went through a stage of 12 tabling going nuts with rakeback... But you run the risk of not actually learning to play better.

If I played a few of those hands I read... I'd be disappointed in myself and consider myself spewing. It's great though your bankrolls going up but your actual hand playing might not be improving. Just food for thought, So when you go up levels your going to be exploited majorly.

Great for now.. I guess i'm always looking longterm but if your enjoying it at 5nl .. Who cares what I just said and enjoy

 

[Logan2]

Viny, what you mean when you said play too aggressively?? On the stats you post for both levels (5/10nl), your AF is 1.9 (which is really passive).
Do you mean preflop?

On PO question about hands/hr on zoom. Yeah, avg by table is around 250 (1k- 4tabling), i know some guys who can load 1200/hr 4-tabling = 300 x table, but others only get 900 (225x table) but more than player pool i think it depends on play style, if fast fold too much, if stay in looking the hand even if fold to see range of villains, if take notes, etc.

On WR, good luck on getting 20+bb on Stars even at 5nlZ, i don´t think you can get that even on regular tables which are softer. 10-12 maybe if are in the top of the level in which case better move up.


​

 

[vinylspiros]

Viny, what you mean when you said play too aggressively?? On the stats you post for both levels (5/10nl), your AF is 1.9 (which is really passive).
Do you mean preflop?

On PO question about hands/hr on zoom. Yeah, avg by table is around 250 (1k- 4tabling), i know some guys who can load 1200/hr 4-tabling = 300 x table, but others only get 900 (225x table) but more than player pool i think it depends on play style, if fast fold too much, if stay in looking the hand even if fold to see range of villains, if take notes, etc.

On WR, good luck on getting 20+bb on Stars even at 5nlZ, i don´t think you can get that even on regular tables which are softer. 10-12 maybe if are in the top of the level in which case better move up.


​

Yea Logan, i knew someone would say that. If you take a closer look at the 5NL graph you will see that my RED LINE(won without showdown ) is higher than my net showdown. If that doesnt mean im playing too agressively and trying to push people off of hands i dont know what does. Yes preflop definitely but postflop too. I was told a few months back in this same thread that when your red line is higher than your green line that you are not getting value for your made hands(betting too high and not getting value) and you are bluffing way too much( which leads to getting called by better hands alot of the time).

I dont think AF alone dictates the exact style of play but i could be wrong. Any comments on this? And if you see the 10NL graph where i am winning, the AF is exactly the same but you will see that the red line is now below the green one which means im playing more passively and a TAG style instead of hyper aggro.


thats what i meant. You see the difference?

 

[vinylspiros]

Thing is Vinyl I went through a stage of 12 tabling going nuts with rakeback... But you run the risk of not actually learning to play better.

If I played a few of those hands I read... I'd be disappointed in myself and consider myself spewing. It's great though your bankrolls going up but your actual hand playing might not be improving. Just food for thought, So when you go up levels your going to be exploited majorly.

Great for now.. I guess i'm always looking longterm but if your enjoying it at 5nl .. Who cares what I just said and enjoy

Yea ACES, i know what you mean man and great tips really,thanks. I just double table zoom. It really seems slow at this point cause ive done alot of 2 tabling zoom. I am a spewbox,NO DOUBT. I dont think my game can get a whole lot better for these limits. It is ABC really.

What could get better is my EGO and my patience. I know i can beat the limit cause i have in the past over larger samples. the thing is, i want to quickly get to like 25NL and any minor downswing gets to my nerves and i then try to up my agression to move up faster leading to me just blowing off weeks of hard work in sessions of foolishness.


the hands i post here are the ones i think i played the poorest or some interesting ones. All in all, i could always get better and everyones help here has really given me a deifferent feel for the game,no doubt.

 

[Aces2w1n]

Hmmm the whole mindset of wanting to get somewhere quicker just needs to be erased from your memory.... You need to do things the hardway and work ground up and keep chipping away at your leaks... And it should come together.

Well that's what i'm doing anyway but if your still gathering up bankroll and this is working keep at it as well and like logan said move up... To get more... It doesn't matter how you get there as long as you get there I guess


Those blind plays make me cringe though... Blinds is where I struggle the most and i'm trying to take out those typical marginal hands... OOP at the micros with marginal is so costly at times, and I've definetly bled money here and still do but i'm working on it.

 

[Logan2]

Yea Logan, i knew someone would say that. If you take a closer look at the 5NL graph you will see that my RED LINE(won without showdown ) is higher than my net showdown. If that doesnt mean im playing too agressively and trying to push people off of hands i dont know what does. Yes preflop definitely but postflop too. I was told a few months back in this same thread that when your red line is higher than your green line that you are not getting value for your made hands(betting too high and not getting value) and you are bluffing way too much( which leads to getting called by better hands alot of the time).

I dont think AF alone dictates the exact style of play but i could be wrong. Any comments on this? And if you see the 10NL graph where i am winning, the AF is exactly the same but you will see that the red line is now below the green one which means im playing more passively and a TAG style instead of hyper aggro.


thats what i meant. You see the difference?

Yeah, i get what you mean now but is not really that way, if your AF is the same then your agression is the same, the difference in red line could mean a difference in your play style yes, but necesary on aggresion, is more on the loose part. Red line go up when people fold to you, yes, but that don´t mean you are more or less aggro.

If you float more and people just give up on turn and you bet and get folds red line go up but this not mean you are more aggresive, if you double barrel more and people fold then red line go up , if bluff more rivers same, if steal more also move red line, blind play have lot to do with red line too but non of this have to do with aggresion.

The difference on 5nl vs 10nl for you was that on 5nl was playing 27/20/1.9 3B8 and on 10nl you go down to 25/17/1.9 3B6, you go from been loose-passive to more tigh-passive style, but on both you still are the same passive, sure you are 3b little less but you are playing less hands too but your aggresion is the same. Your aggresion come from bets & raises, if some one bet and you float and then stop floating you are not more or less aggresive, if you check-raise more or bet-raise more sure the AF go up or down. Your gap betwen VPIP/PFR is still the same huge gap=passive flatting too much, nothing to do with aggresion, your chsnge was more on the loose part which is good and improve your results (though xample is small to consider) but yeah, that.

 

[Speedexas]

26.4 bb/100 is great and i honestly think its sutainable .(if not that high then maybe a bit less but still it's easy to beat).

Yea dream about it. My honest advice would be :
1.Try plugging your leaks 1 at a time.
2. Reduce your 3bet %(i really think its not necessary to 3bet light at NL2,5,10 because at these limits people call too much 3bets and kinda doesnt want to let it go when they hit 10 with A 10s in 3bet pot.
3.Go and watch GRIPSED poker training vids on youtube (it helps a lot).
My last stats were 19/13 at NL5 after like 60k hands and my agg was 1.8 but my bb/100 at NL5 is about 5 and overall and 8.6 at nl2 WHILE PLAYING 21/14 WITH 3BET OF 1.6%. As for the red line.... Mine is same as SD wins (730$ sd wins and red line of 703$. You said you are a spewtard. STOP it!!! And for the EGO - im like 50% complete of plugging that. Its really a bad thing. Good luck bro and see you at ZOOM.

 

[vinylspiros]

I DONT MEAN TO BRAG BUT,,

CHECK THIS $$$$$HIT OUT!!!!

I JUST FINISHED THIS

i was bored and had a few spare fpp's. LOOK AT THE FIELD AND LOOK AT MY POSITION!!!!!!!

THIS IS ONE OF THOSE MIRACLES THAT YOU NEVER EXPECT TO HAPPEN. I WAS PLAYING THIS TO KILL TIME REALLY.

 

[Speedexas]

Nice !

 

[vinylspiros]

Yea dream about it. My honest advice would be :
1.Try plugging your leaks 1 at a time.
2. Reduce your 3bet %(i really think its not necessary to 3bet light at NL2,5,10 because at these limits people call too much 3bets and kinda doesnt want to let it go when they hit 10 with A 10s in 3bet pot.
3.Go and watch GRIPSED poker training vids on youtube (it helps a lot).
My last stats were 19/13 at NL5 after like 60k hands and my agg was 1.8 but my bb/100 at NL5 is about 5 and overall and 8.6 at nl2 WHILE PLAYING 21/14 WITH 3BET OF 1.6%. As for the red line.... Mine is same as SD wins (730$ sd wins and red line of 703$. You said you are a spewtard. STOP it!!! And for the EGO - im like 50% complete of plugging that. Its really a bad thing. Good luck bro and see you at ZOOM.

By the way, thanks for the tips SPEEDEX. yea, im looking to fix my cash game leaks one at a time. biggest one being over aggro and not giving up. the 25 bb/100 i mentioned above is of course very optimistic but i like dreaming. i dont think that 15bb/100 is a total fantasy though. esp at 5NL. anyways thnks for the reply and yea.see ya at the tables.

and one more thing , the 19/13 stat you said you have is not bad of course, but i personally can not play that tight. i love seeing flops with my suited connectors and Broadways. I'm just trying to work on not going to far when i haven't connected well enough.

 

[Speedexas]

By the way, thanks for the tips SPEEDEX. yea, im looking to fix my cash game leaks one at a time. biggest one being over aggro and not giving up. the 25 bb/100 i mentioned above is of course very optimistic but i like dreaming. i dont think that 15bb/100 is a total fantasy though. esp at 5NL. anyways thnks for the reply and yea.see ya at the tables.

and one more thing , the 19/13 stat you said you have is not bad of course, but i personally can not play that tight. i love seeing flops with my suited connectors and Broadways. I'm just trying to work on not going to far when i haven't connected well enough.

I just want to help you , btw see ya at NL10

 

[Aces2w1n]

WOW very nice win

 

[vinylspiros]

QUESTION? whats a good bb/100 winrate heads up?

 

[Speedexas]

QUESTION? whats a good bb/100 winrate heads up?

You started to play HU?

 

[vinylspiros]

You started to play HU?

HAHAHAHHAHA, yea. im playing 0.25/0.50 cap. 10 dollar cap. ive played like 1k hands today and its full of turbulence. im up 3 buy ins but thats it. Figured id practice a bit with this tourney money here. I'm pretty good actually.

It depends though on who im up against. I found this one guy who gave me 60 $ and then he left and then the next guy took half of that, It's quite bumpy but at the same time enjoyable.

Am i gonna lose everything???

 

[vinylspiros]

I just want to help you , btw see ya at NL10

and thanks for your help and advice speedex. Glad to have you here helping out in the thread. You seem like a square dude and a pretty good player TBH. You dont wanna see me at your table.

 

[vinylspiros]

Yeah, i get what you mean now but is not really that way, if your AF is the same then your agression is the same, the difference in red line could mean a difference in your play style yes, but necesary on aggresion, is more on the loose part. Red line go up when people fold to you, yes, but that don´t mean you are more or less aggro.

If you float more and people just give up on turn and you bet and get folds red line go up but this not mean you are more aggresive, if you double barrel more and people fold then red line go up , if bluff more rivers same, if steal more also move red line, blind play have lot to do with red line too but non of this have to do with aggresion.

The difference on 5nl vs 10nl for you was that on 5nl was playing 27/20/1.9 3B8 and on 10nl you go down to 25/17/1.9 3B6, you go from been loose-passive to more tigh-passive style, but on both you still are the same passive, sure you are 3b little less but you are playing less hands too but your aggresion is the same. Your aggresion come from bets & raises, if some one bet and you float and then stop floating you are not more or less aggresive, if you check-raise more or bet-raise more sure the AF go up or down. Your gap betwen VPIP/PFR is still the same huge gap=passive flatting too much, nothing to do with aggresion, your chsnge was more on the loose part which is good and improve your results (though xample is small to consider) but yeah, that.

Thank you very very much logan for that in depth analysis of the stats i posted. Im honored that you took the time and made that little analysis and i see exactly what you mean. Your right. The gap is too wide between vpip and pfr and i guess i might be playing a bit too passive. Will be working on it. And i see what you mean about the floating and the check raising stuff too and how they influence my graph. Thanks alot man. Solid stuff really. Much appreciated.

 

[Logan2]

QUESTION? whats a good bb/100 winrate heads up?

I think read 10-15bb/100 on 50nl HU was good, 20bb/100 could be reacheable bumhunting but if playing caped i guess is little less, also remember HU have way more variance than 6max/FR

GL.

 

[Speedexas]

and thanks for your help and advice speedex. Glad to have you here helping out in the thread. You seem like a square dude and a pretty good player TBH. You dont wanna see me at your table.

Actually i dont care as i saw that you play cautiously against me. See ya at ZOOM

 

[DunningKruger]

CHECK THIS $$$$$HIT OUT!!!!

I JUST FINISHED THIS

i was bored and had a few spare fpp's. LOOK AT THE FIELD AND LOOK AT MY POSITION!!!!!!!

THIS IS ONE OF THOSE MIRACLES THAT YOU NEVER EXPECT TO HAPPEN. I WAS PLAYING THIS TO KILL TIME REALLY.

Congratulations. I was never 100% sure about this but did you have a really nice score a couple of years ago? If not first then top 2 or 3 for I think a 4 digit pay day or something like that. My memory is sketchy so maybe I'm wrong.

 

[redwards92]

Congratulations. I was never 100% sure about this but did you have a really nice score a couple of years ago? If not first then top 2 or 3 for I think a 4 digit pay day or something like that. My memory is sketchy so maybe I'm wrong.

I think I remember a thread he made about a final table he had where he went out 9th with flopped set vs flush or something like that for just a bit less then 1K