I'm currently bouncing between 16NL and 25NL zoom right now and have noticed that more and more players are starting to have a polarized range with their 3bets, especially at 25NL compared to 16NL.
I was wondering what kind of 3bet ranges the player pools at these stakes are using, and how to defend against a wider 3bet range.
At 2NL and 5NL it was easy because it seemed like damn near nobody but me would 3bet worse than AQo or AJs. Simple. Fold to most 3bets because they are so rare. Ive polarized my 3bets with a few low suited gappers and some low suited aces and was getting enough folds to be pretty profitable. Still wasn't inducing action but whatevs.
But now I can't seem to make the jump to 25NL and stay.
My button and CO opens get 3bet so much more often at 25NL.
What is the best plan of action here?
My thoughts are:
A) Tighten my opening range so that I can call a higher % of 3bets
B) 4bet wider
or
C) Just start calling 3bets wider
Or all of the above? Not sure
There's also a way higher % of regs at 25NL, and they tend to be the ones 3betting me all the time.
Good questions.... but our of curiosity have you read the section on 3-betting in polished poker? And if not, why not give it a read and we can address some questions from there. They are good questions, and you want to get solid on this information, but I want to make sure we're coming from the same initial understanding base.
This hand came up whilst sweating with (Ian the Fish aka Ricky). The turn bet simply looks like an attempt to buy it and I remember seeing this in a previous sweat so called it down; any comments?
poker stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players ZOOM
Not enough stats to make a read although if you went from them, then easy fold.
75/0 1.3 - Fish and not aggressive.
Your hand is just a bluff catcher as they wouldn't really bet with a Queen
Id have just folded the turn, no way you can make a read with only 4 hands although you mentioned you had seen similar before, think I would have had to see same thing a few more times and from same person
My point is its a bet sizing tell rather than any stat read. What hand overbets the turn other than a bluff/weak hand looking for a fold? If you had a value hand you wouldn't do this until you had some history and could set it up, or knew I was a calling station, which he can't know at this point.
My point is its a bet sizing tell rather than any stat read. What hand overbets the turn other than a bluff/weak hand looking for a fold? If you had a value hand you wouldn't do this until you had some history and could set it up, or knew I was a calling station, which he can't know at this point.
1st one Seemed aggro and not sure why he was playing 10nl as he had 1Milllion FPPs. DO they ever lead here with worse than KQ
Think I competely screwed up hand 2. Maybe should have check raised flop. Once I picked up more equity on Turn and my range hit alot more than his, I'm assuming it would have been better to have just let them bet although leading turn can get him to fold AK/AQ/AJ/AT/KQ etc (thoughts)
Did think about shoving river to get him to fold over pair if he had one but don't think he would have
H1 Like John said. Looks and plays like a flush draw. Fold river.
H2 fold or 3bet pre flop. I prefer a fold actually this hand plays badly oop. The FD is too obvious and you'll never get paid oop.
As played a check raise on the flop might get you a free card on the river and is probably better than leading out blindly on the turn.
plays bad?? we hit 2 pair and a weaker player will call us down or keep betting with AK.
we block aces so our opponent can have a lot of broadway hands that will fold out
Yes A8 flops and plays bad because you can't flop a straight and you are never really happy if the Ace comes because of the strength of your kicker. You only flop a flush draw 11% of the time and you will only hit 2 pair 1 in 49.
A6/7/8/9 All play the same I suggest 3bet or fold at our level especially from the blinds.
A8 isn't called the dead man's hand for nothing.
Hand 1 I was actually thinking about what John said in another thread 'If it smells like a flush draw, plays like a flush draw, it's a flush draw.'
The big red 1 on their profile deterred me. I'm thinking they are representing, although maybe I should think the other way, and as they have 1 Million VPPs they are less likely to bluff as the 10nl player pool are fish !!!
Hand 2 - need to look more at my 3betting range especially OOP
I am a poker player from the netherlands looking to improve my micro poker game. I came across you polished poker thread and I would like to join it and learn.
I tried to download the book but the link doesn't seem to be working.
(pokerbythebook.com/Free_poker_ebook.php)
Can you send it to me or tell me where I can download it so I can study it and participate in the group?
Yes A8 flops and plays bad because you can't flop a straight and you are never really happy if the Ace comes because of the strength of your kicker. You only flop a flush draw 11% of the time and you will only hit 2 pair 1 in 49.
A6/7/8/9 All play the same I suggest 3bet or fold at our level especially from the blinds.
A8 isn't called the dead man's hand for nothing.
Not by calling in the SB with this particular hand, I'll 3bet or fold it for the reasons stated.
Bud it is very unwise to give away both position and the initiative by calling in the blinds unless your hand is strong.
The edges are smaller in poker than you seem to realise. We only have 5 HANDS on this vill which is nothing and he has 4 buy ins, what makes you think he's weak?. if anything he's strong so I'd probably fold. I'm not looking to get into hands with this bloke OOP with a difficult hand......
Well that's an entirely different situation to the hand under discussion and without a specific example all I can say is it depends!! I'm happy to talk about defending though as currently I'm losing too much from the BB (-40bb/100 this year) and want to get that figure down by at least 10. According to leak buster I am actually defending too often, but I prefer to think not well enough (too passively)
I mentioned this somewhere else recently in that we lose the most from the blinds and win the most from the button so these are the positions where we want to have our strategy and ranges nailed down as best as we can.
I am a poker player from the Netherlands looking to improve my micro poker game. I came across you polished poker thread and I would like to join it and learn.
I tried to download the book but the link doesn't seem to be working.
(pokerbythebook.com/Free_poker_ebook.php)
Can you send it to me or tell me where I can download it so I can study it and participate in the group?
You are experiencing the same problem as I did, so let me be nice to you, as someone here was nice to me (credit to Fig). PM me your e-mail, so I could send the PDF to you.
You are experiencing the same problem as I did, so let me be nice to you, as someone here was nice to me (credit to Fig). PM me your e-mail, so I could send the PDF to you.
Ian, would you please be nice to me also? I'm really excited with this thread and I'd love to join these discussions. But I can't download the book and before reading it I'm not on the same page with you.
Well that's an entirely different situation to the hand under discussion and without a specific example all I can say is it depends!! I'm happy to talk about defending though as currently I'm losing too much from the BB (-40bb/100 this year) and want to get that figure down by at least 10. According to leak buster I am actually defending too often, but I prefer to think not well enough (too passively)
I mentioned this somewhere else recently in that we lose the most from the blinds and win the most from the button so these are the positions where we want to have our strategy and ranges nailed down as best as we can.
Holy Feck, decided to play a short session and wish I hadn't bothered. Started with a funky hand J5s (CardMatch Promotion I tried to 3Bet, then swiftly went downhill especially with some tilting and some coolers.
All Hands in chronological order last 3 within 1 minute
Thoughts on hands below. Tilt/Coolers or combination of both
Hand1 21:52 Thought BB with Big stack was throwing his weight around when raised on Flop
,Hero raises to $7.47, SB folds, BB raises to $33.26, Hero calls $2.28 and is all-in
Turn: ($21.70) 3
(2 players, 1 is all-in) River: ($21.70) 4
(2 players, 1 is all-in)
Results: $21.70 pot ($0.98 rake)
Final Board: J
5
8
3
4
SB mucked and lost (-$1.30 net)
BB showed 8
8
and won $20.72 ($10.57 net)
Hero showed J
5
and lost (-$10.15 net)
Hand2 22:01
Was actually trying to get the Small Blind out and get the shortstacks money. Although it looked like flush draw difficult to fold $4 into $19 on River
Hand3 22:02 Decided to call Min Raise on Flop as over, gutter and back door flush. Maybe should have bet more on turn but wouldn't make a difference
Queen wasnt ideal but didn't think he had many Jacks in his range
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20
Flop: ($0.95) 8
6
T
(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.61, CO raises to $1.22, BB folds, Hero calls $0.61
Turn: ($3.39) 9
(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.40, Hero raises to $3.81, CO calls $2.41
River: ($11.01) Q
(2 players)
Results:
Hero bets $7.14, CO calls $3.53 and is all-in
Results: $18.07 pot ($0.81 rake)
Final Board: 8
6
T
9
Q
Hero showed K
7
and lost (-$8.86 net)
CO showed J
J
and won $17.26 ($8.40 net)
Hand4 22:03
Standard Pre and on Flop. Turn and River bricks
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
Hand 5 22:08 Not Great flop, maybe shouldnt have bet turn as I already had decent equity. River Call questionable ??
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
UTG raises to $0.30, MP calls $0.30, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.30, 2 folds, MP calls $1
Flop: ($3) Q
J
J
(2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks
Turn: ($3) 3
(2 players) Hero bets $1.43, MP calls $1.43
River: ($5.86) 5
(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $3.80,
Results:
Hero calls $3.80
Results: $13.46 pot ($0.61 rake)
Final Board: Q
J
J
3
5
Hero mucked A
A
and lost (-$6.53 net)
MP showed J
K
and won $12.85 ($6.32 net)
Hand 6 22:09
Think standard lead on Flop then when raised, only losing to sets 6's and Ts but lots of other hands AT especially AT hearts, overpairs and other flush draws with a Ten
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
2 folds, CO raises to $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, Hero raises to $0.90, BB folds, CO calls $0.70, BTN folds
Flop: ($2.10) T
2
6
(2 players) Hero bets $1.40, CO raises to $13.59 and is all-in,
Results:
Hero calls $7.70 and is all-in
Turn: ($20.30) 5
(2 players, 2 are all-in) River: ($20.30) J
(2 players, 2 are all-in)
Results: $20.30 pot ($0.91 rake)
Final Board: T
2
6
5
J
Hero showed 2
2
and lost (-$10 net)
CO showed 6
6
and won $19.39 ($9.39 net)
Hand 7 22:09 - straight after 22 hand
Once I hit the turn I'm thinking maybe JQs/KJs/KQs or small pair and if he has 66 then good luck
Once they shove river nothing makes sense except 66, maybe KTs, crazy value with his King hands or random spew bluff with JQ.
1st one Seemed aggro and not sure why he was playing 10nl as he had 1Milllion FPPs. DO they ever lead here with worse than KQ
Think I competely screwed up hand 2. Maybe should have check raised flop. Once I picked up more equity on Turn and my range hit alot more than his, I'm assuming it would have been better to have just let them bet although leading turn can get him to fold AK/AQ/AJ/AT/KQ etc (thoughts)
Did think about shoving river to get him to fold over pair if he had one but don't think he would have
This hand seems like dejavu. Did you just post pretty much an identical hand the other day?
If it smells like a flush draw, and plays like a flush draw, it's a flush draw. I mean what other possible hand is he c/cing and then all of a sudden deciding to bet the river large?
You have so many clues on this one, it really should be an easy fold.
1) He's CC out of BB = he will have more draws in his range.
2) He check calls the whole way and then bets the river big = he will rarely have KJ or worse. He wouldn't c/c this hand and then suddenly bet large when the 3rd diamond hits.
3) Not many other hands make sense, and the board run out doesn't make much sense for him to turn second best hands into bluffs.
It's the same thing Rhom in so many hands you're posting. If you want to play winning poker, then you need to never ever call these types of hands in the blinds, especially to an UTG raise.
Do you know how many times I call this hand? Literally zero. Never. Now if I have more info on my opponent, or it's MW, there are times I might come in, but in a specific spot like this, never.
Is it a discipline thing, or what's going on? I know enough about your game, so maybe you can help me understand why you're motivated to play these crap hands in bad spots.Whatever it is we need to figure out a way to undo it.
