No Brainer
Losing keeps me sane
Silver Level
Any pair 88+
Any pair 88+
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Since Dateline is trying to do an expose on fantasy sports. I wanted to put my 2 internet cents in. I'd hope we'd all care about this topic.
http://www.acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/fantasy-sports-isnt-gambling/
http://www.acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/fantasy-sports-isnt-gambling/
TimovieMan
Legend
Silver Level
I was going to say the exact same thing! T9s.9hTh cos u was playing him, if it was my villain they would have 44 lol
On my table it'd be 88/AJ.
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
Such fishy stats I agree he could have any set or pairs 99+. I wouldn't be surprised to see the worse played AA ever.....?
Would favour Jx though.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
I was going to say the exact same thing! T9s.
On my table it'd be 88/AJ.
Hehe... good guesses everyone. No teachable moment on this hand, I just thought he either had AA/KK, draw or some mid pair he wasn't sure about how to play. He had 55.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Can you guys do me a favor.... can you post this blog on your favorite forum, blog or fantasy site? I want to spread more awareness about this, and get more people informed about what's going on politically in the US, and across the world on this issue. It effects us all. Thanks.
P
psychomethod
Rising Star
Silver Level
I am on other forums, but they are not poker forums and anything beyond the rules in a Hoyles book would baffle the shit out of them. For them I might suggest the Idiots guide to poker.
My old old friends have, at most, shown a minor curiosity about my hobby, and treat my big tourney wins like I won a lottery or something. They got their lives and let me have mine.... not all that close old old friends...they are old after all.
My old old friends have, at most, shown a minor curiosity about my hobby, and treat my big tourney wins like I won a lottery or something. They got their lives and let me have mine.... not all that close old old friends...they are old after all.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Yeah, and that's exactly my point. The average person has no awareness about what gambling actually is and isn't. They just think, if you put money on something, then that is gambling. But that's not actually the case, per our handy dandy dictionary.
All of these kinds of conversations about ideas and legality start with raising awareness about the issue. Right now, if you aren't a fantasy sports bettor or poker player, you have no idea about this issue. If we want actual real change on this issue, then it's on us, the people who do care to talk to others and educate them on the issue. Change won't happen otherwise.
It's like every major legal opinion / position on issues throughout time. Take LGBT issues as the most recent example. Most people in the US held an unfavorable opinion about the legality of gay rights not that long ago. It's only because the LGBT community continued to raise awareness around the issue over the years that the legality of gay marriage is slowly being accepted. They had to let others know that, hey, you may or may not agree with our sexual preferences, but we're humans just like you, and because of that we deserve the same legal rights as you.
Any ways, it doesn't happen over night, but if you don't put effort into this conversation, change isn't going to happen. Even if you have tons of money to poor into this issue and lobby, public opinion helps put the maximum pressure on legislators.
This is what should disturb you though - you can just google in recent news stories about this topic, and you'll read stuff like this (I quote from a recent popular article):
"Betting on games of "chance" is illegal, but not games of "skill". Poker is considered a game of chance; fantasy football, a game of skill.
So this false opinion that poker is a game of chance, needs to be shifted to show why it's a game of skill. So most people understand that roulette is much different than poker.
Aces2w1n
Legend
Silver Level
Simple.
Government gets taxes from sports betting.
Offshore poker sites give nothing.
They persuade the ppl to go where they get taxes.. quite clever.
So becareful what u wish for cuz online poker will get tougher again when they do legalize and put taxes on it
Government gets taxes from sports betting.
Offshore poker sites give nothing.
They persuade the ppl to go where they get taxes.. quite clever.
So becareful what u wish for cuz online poker will get tougher again when they do legalize and put taxes on it
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
You mean the same offshore accounts that almost all of our major corporations store their profits in, and don't pay taxes on? lol
Yeah, it's actually more complex than that. It has to to w/ lobbying interest and hostile take over of industries. Why do you think people like Sheldon Adelson want online poker banned?
or3o1990
Legend
Silver Level
I liked the blog John but unfortunately I don't use social media so I can't really increase the exposure. I will throw it up in the Iveyleague forum but most of those people get it already..
To reinforce your point about "normal" people's opinion on gambling. I was talking with my friend's mom last night about the dateline show and I'm open with her about my poker playing but that's the extent of her gambling exposure. She's a chatterbox and we were going on for awhile but even after establishing the definition of gambling she would still argue that me playing a chess grand master for money is still gambling even though I never win. And in talking about the lottery I described the people who buy tickets as one singular entity and the people who sell them as the other. Which clearly illustrates how it is that the players always lose and in the case of the lottery at a devastating rate. But she rebutted multiple times saying but if you only win once, lol. And says she doesn't see playing the lottery as gambling.
I think we're all doomed by stupidity and indifference. The only thing that can save us is the financial potential of poker. Dollar dollar bill ya'll.
To reinforce your point about "normal" people's opinion on gambling. I was talking with my friend's mom last night about the dateline show and I'm open with her about my poker playing but that's the extent of her gambling exposure. She's a chatterbox and we were going on for awhile but even after establishing the definition of gambling she would still argue that me playing a chess grand master for money is still gambling even though I never win. And in talking about the lottery I described the people who buy tickets as one singular entity and the people who sell them as the other. Which clearly illustrates how it is that the players always lose and in the case of the lottery at a devastating rate. But she rebutted multiple times saying but if you only win once, lol. And says she doesn't see playing the lottery as gambling.
I think we're all doomed by stupidity and indifference. The only thing that can save us is the financial potential of poker. Dollar dollar bill ya'll.
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
This hand is still bothering me days afterwards
What is our best initial play on the flop in this hand?
poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players
SB: $13.11 (52.4 bb)
BB: $27.55 (110.2 bb)
MP1: $28.14 (112.6 bb)
MP2: $20.95 (83.8 bb)
MP3: $25 (100 bb)
Hero (CO): $25 (100 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb) - VPIP: 31, PFR: 23, 3B: 9, AF: 2.5, hands: 35
Preflop: Hero is CO with Q
Q
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BTN raises to $2.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5.50, BTN calls $3.25
Flop: ($11.35) 8
4
9
(2 players)
Hero bets $6, BTN raises to $19.50 and is all-in, Hero calls $13.50 and is all-in (too many draws TT JJ AK to fold here)
Turn: ($50.35) J
(2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($50.35) 3
(2 players, 2 are all-in)
Results: $50.35 pot ($2 rake)
Final Board: 8
4
9
J
3
Hero showed Q
Q
and won $48.35 ($23.35 net)
BTN mucked K
J
and lost (-$25 net)
Also here is my twitter account details if anyone is interested. John A I shared your link here.
https://twitter.com/FiggBruce/status/697542579097878529
What is our best initial play on the flop in this hand?
poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players
SB: $13.11 (52.4 bb)
BB: $27.55 (110.2 bb)
MP1: $28.14 (112.6 bb)
MP2: $20.95 (83.8 bb)
MP3: $25 (100 bb)
Hero (CO): $25 (100 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb) - VPIP: 31, PFR: 23, 3B: 9, AF: 2.5, hands: 35
Preflop: Hero is CO with Q
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BTN raises to $2.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5.50, BTN calls $3.25
Flop: ($11.35) 8
Hero bets $6, BTN raises to $19.50 and is all-in, Hero calls $13.50 and is all-in (too many draws TT JJ AK to fold here)
Turn: ($50.35) J
River: ($50.35) 3
Results: $50.35 pot ($2 rake)
Final Board: 8
Hero showed Q
BTN mucked K
Also here is my twitter account details if anyone is interested. John A I shared your link here.
https://twitter.com/FiggBruce/status/697542579097878529
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Yeah, I hear you. That's why we need to define gambling, and then stick to the point. The definition is that you're playing a game of chance. Poker is clearly not a game of chance (and that's why I talk about variance - people don't understand life variance, let alone game variance). But her saying that the lottery isn't gambling is... well... yeah.
Here's my outline points:
definition point #1 – You have no control over the outcome. Which brings me to definition point #2 –Over time if you played long enough, you would lose that money, because in all gambling games of chance, the odds are always against you.
definition point #3 – no skills are needed in games of chance.
Anyone saying poker is gambling and a game of chance should be an insult to every player here.
And like I said on our call, the scarier thing to me is how legislators talk about poker and fantasy sports. We need public opinion to shift, and legislators will follow. There are some people who will never get it, but let's not give up hope or get apathetic about it.
Donate to the PPA, write letters, post, talk to people. It does make a difference.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
What is the best play on the flop in this hand?
Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players
SB: $13.11 (52.4 bb)
BB: $27.55 (110.2 bb)
MP1: $28.14 (112.6 bb)
MP2: $20.95 (83.8 bb)
MP3: $25 (100 bb)
Hero (CO): $25 (100 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb) - VPIP: 31, PFR: 23, 3B: 9, AF: 2.5, Hands: 35
Preflop: Hero is CO with QQ
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BTN raises to $2.25, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5.50, BTN calls $3.25
Flop: ($11.35) 849(2 players)
Hero bets $6, BTN raises to $19.50 and is all-in, Hero calls $13.50 and is all-in
Turn: ($50.35) J(2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($50.35) 3(2 players, 2 are all-in)
Results: $50.35 pot ($2 rake)
Final Board: 849J3
Hero showed QQand won $48.35 ($23.35 net)
BTN mucked KJand lost (-$25 net)
Also here is my twitter account details if anyone is interested. John A I shared your link here.
https://twitter.com/FiggBruce/status/697542579097878529
Thanks Bruce.
Why is the hand bothering you though? I don't understand... think you played it fine. Not really sure what you could have done different. Maybe not 4-bet pre and just CRAI on the flop.
Aces2w1n
Legend
Silver Level
In my world in Australia they all seem scared of poker. They all love the lottery and the zombie machines and sports bet.
I mention poker and tell them a lil bit its like i wish i hadnt. And i automatically have a gambling problem.
They also judge themselves in ur situation and expect them to lose like they would.
Im just glad my wife is onboard about me trying and thats all that counts
I mention poker and tell them a lil bit its like i wish i hadnt. And i automatically have a gambling problem.
They also judge themselves in ur situation and expect them to lose like they would.
Im just glad my wife is onboard about me trying and thats all that counts
Aces2w1n
Legend
Silver Level
Oh yeh also they automatically think poker = lose house lose car .. get divirced lose job everything
Ppl believe what they watch on tv here
If they could create a box office hit of a success story of chris moneymaker making it or something similar.. can show how poker isnt all that bad
And extra show the poker guy donating to world peace lol
Ppl believe what they watch on tv here
If they could create a box office hit of a success story of chris moneymaker making it or something similar.. can show how poker isnt all that bad
And extra show the poker guy donating to world peace lol
Last edited:
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
Why is the hand bothering you though? I don't understand... think you played it fine. Not really sure what you could have done different. Maybe not 4-bet pre and just CRAI on the flop.
What bothers me is if the 4 had been a club or spade and there was no flush draw I may have folded fearing a set or overpair. I have the feeling that he is shoving or potting everything if I check the flop and again I'd have probably folded.
I think generally I'm giving up too easily in 3bet+ pots when ive whiffed both as the raiser and caller when I meet resistance on the flop.
I'm constantly surprised by the garbage some half decent players are willing to go to war with. I found a hand last week particularly tilting when a villain called a 3bet with 76s floated me with 3rd pair and back doors and stacked me after making a flush on the river.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
I hear you. Well, it's gone from shady backrooms to TV. So the perception on poker has changed drastically. It's something that needs to continue to evolve if we ever want the game to have genuine legal status in most countries.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
This is why we have ranges for opponents, and we don't just completely throw something out. We weight it differently, but that's why I point out to people, don't use the word NEVER or ALWAYS when talking about what opponents will do. You can say almost always, or rarely ever, but not never.
R
rhombus
Legend
Silver Level
Managed to crawl over the line for 50K at 2nl zoom on Sunday although didnt manage my target of 5bb/100.
Since then been playing 5nl zoom and 10nl reg and getting slaughtered. even the aggros seem to have hand when you play back at them. Hand from earlier against AGGRO, Ive been mostly folding to 3Bets although calling when IP against aggro 3Betters.
Is it ok to play this way against aggro 3Betters in general and insta fold to TAGs and Passives, maybe I need to look sta my 3Bet calling Range
Villain 39/39 80% AGG 3Bet 22.2 18 Hands
Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
SB: $2.03 (40.6 bb)
BB: $26.93 (538.6 bb)
UTG: $5 (100 bb)
MP: $9.68 (193.6 bb)
Hero (CO): $5 (100 bb)
BTN: $4.64 (92.8 bb)
Preflop: Hero is CO with T
Q
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.47, Hero calls $0.32
Flop: ($0.96) T
8
7
(2 players)
BB bets $0.67, Hero calls $0.67
Turn: ($2.30) 7
(2 players)
BB bets $1.36, Hero calls $1.36
River: ($5.02) 9
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
Results: $5.02 pot ($0.21 rake)
Final Board: T
8
7
7
9
BB showed A
A
and won $4.81 ($2.31 net)
Hero mucked T
Q
and lost (-$2.50 net)
Since then been playing 5nl zoom and 10nl reg and getting slaughtered.
even the aggros seem to have hand when you play back at them. Hand from earlier against AGGRO, Ive been mostly folding to 3Bets although calling when IP against aggro 3Betters.Is it ok to play this way against aggro 3Betters in general and insta fold to TAGs and Passives, maybe I need to look sta my 3Bet calling Range
Villain 39/39 80% AGG 3Bet 22.2 18 Hands
Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
SB: $2.03 (40.6 bb)
BB: $26.93 (538.6 bb)
UTG: $5 (100 bb)
MP: $9.68 (193.6 bb)
Hero (CO): $5 (100 bb)
BTN: $4.64 (92.8 bb)
Preflop: Hero is CO with T
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.47, Hero calls $0.32
Flop: ($0.96) T
BB bets $0.67, Hero calls $0.67
Turn: ($2.30) 7
BB bets $1.36, Hero calls $1.36
River: ($5.02) 9
BB checks, Hero checks
Results: $5.02 pot ($0.21 rake)
Final Board: T
BB showed A
Hero mucked T
Attachments
Aces2w1n
Legend
Silver Level
Its so world wide i could see it in the olympics 1 day lol.. sounds crazy but so many diff countries play this
Figaroo2
Legend
Bronze Level
Rhom
For me QT suited is usually a fold to a 3bet, I'm never calling a 3 bet with that and usually not 4betting it unless they are 10%+ 3bet.
Its a trouble hand that will get you into all sorts of dominated spots.
The stats look fairly similar to when you posted them last but your aggression levels look better.
They are still pretty decent overall but WTSD is still at the top end of the acceptable range.
I'd be calling less 3bets and making a few more 4bets against other regs.
By position I'd be playing more hands from the button and a whole lot less from both the blinds.
Looks like your BB fold to steal is 66.7 that means you are playing a massive number of hands oop from the BB. It would be interesting to see how you are doing from the blinds, I seem to remember you were doing ok last time
For me QT suited is usually a fold to a 3bet, I'm never calling a 3 bet with that and usually not 4betting it unless they are 10%+ 3bet.
Its a trouble hand that will get you into all sorts of dominated spots.
The stats look fairly similar to when you posted them last but your aggression levels look better.
They are still pretty decent overall but WTSD is still at the top end of the acceptable range.
I'd be calling less 3bets and making a few more 4bets against other regs.
By position I'd be playing more hands from the button and a whole lot less from both the blinds.
Looks like your BB fold to steal is 66.7 that means you are playing a massive number of hands oop from the BB. It would be interesting to see how you are doing from the blinds, I seem to remember you were doing ok last time
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Managed to crawl over the line for 50K at 2nl zoom on Sunday although didnt manage my target of 5bb/100.
Since then been playing 5nl zoom and 10nl reg and getting slaughtered.
Is it ok to play this way against aggro 3Betters in general and insta fold to TAGs and Passives, maybe I need to look sta my 3Bet calling Range
Villain 39/39 80% AGG 3Bet 22.2 18 Hands
Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
SB: $2.03 (40.6 bb)
BB: $26.93 (538.6 bb)
UTG: $5 (100 bb)
MP: $9.68 (193.6 bb)
Hero (CO): $5 (100 bb)
BTN: $4.64 (92.8 bb)
Preflop: Hero is CO with TQ
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.47, Hero calls $0.32
Flop: ($0.96) T87(2 players)
BB bets $0.67, Hero calls $0.67
Turn: ($2.30) 7(2 players)
BB bets $1.36, Hero calls $1.36
River: ($5.02) 9(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
Results: $5.02 pot ($0.21 rake)
Final Board: T8779
BB showed AAand won $4.81 ($2.31 net)
Hero mucked TQand lost (-$2.50 net)
Yeah, but 18 hands... you can probably fold. Just depends how frisky you feel. Calling isn't horrible, but I wouldn't say he's totally aggro just yet. That 3-bet % can plummet pretty fast.
Secondary stats note... they are looking better. I think you can c-bet more at zoom, especially at these stakes. If you're getting 44%+ fold, then go ahead and c-bet more. That's just pure profit at that point. I think more players are apt to fold and move on so you can probably be more liberal here. C-bet more IP especially, this will also being your agg%'s up.
John A
Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
I had an idea after reading the below thread and Rhom's post. How about we run some filters?
What do you guys think about this hand?
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/4-nlhe-full-ring-during-shot-282081/
What about running some filters for called 3 and 4-bets with non premium hands when you were getting good pre-flop odds? Maybe someone can post a link if they get them done (or I will when I'm back in).
What do you guys think about this hand?
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/4-nlhe-full-ring-during-shot-282081/
What about running some filters for called 3 and 4-bets with non premium hands when you were getting good pre-flop odds? Maybe someone can post a link if they get them done (or I will when I'm back in).
R
rhombus
Legend
Silver Level
thanks. What should the BB fold to steal ideally be.
Just checked my stats for positon and BB overall isnt great
Also includes just this years 34K hands ignore the -131.88 at 5/10c Reg 6MAX as running like crap, over $90 below EV and Aggression not high as I tend to play alot looser as there seems to be more fish
