Live Grind: How to Not Fall Asleep at the Table

[Matt Vaughan]

UPDATE TIME:

Ok, well I've been putting this off, partially due to busy-ness and partially due to embarrassment, but: it's update time.

I came back to school this week, and last weekend I put in about 12 hours of live cash game play spread over 2 sessions - Saturday and Sunday night. The first night I was playing somewhat too loose and not making all the right reads, but I also ran absolutely awful. Over the ~6 hours I was there, I managed to run my top pair into sets 6 times, straights twice, and flushes 2 times.

The worst were actually the sets, because each time the players I was against were relatively short-stacked and so we ended up all in during 5 of the spots. One issue with waiting this long to update is that I don't remember enough of the details of many of the crucial hands to talk about them here =/ so I'm going to try to start taking short-hand notes at the table regarding action of interesting/questionable spots. First night ended down 1.6 BIs.

The second night went similarly bad in terms of money lost, down 1.8 BIs, but had fewer traditional "bad beats," and more top-of-range spots as well as me failing to adjust. There was an enormous station at the table who was clearly a huge fish and had no clue what he was doing (for a while he was looking at his hand every street, sometimes multiple times per street). It took me too long to figure out that he was stationing that hard, and I lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 cbets that I really didn't need to.

On top of that there were many times where there would be a couple limpers and I'd raise a decent but non-premium hand to thin the field and get 3 calls, and miss the flop and have to shut down. Then three times in a row, during a period when I had been more active, I raised preflop with AK, AK, and AQ, and I took down just the blinds. It was just one of those sessions where it felt like everything was going wrong. I felt that I played much better during the second session though, trying a little harder to play range-based poker and stay tight even when I was folding almost all my hands for a few hours straight.

I've also managed to now get a small roll for 4nl on Lock (after having my BCP money tied up) so I grind online - albeit without a HUD - when I want to. I think this is good for getting back into the habit of range-reading and tilt management, since I struggle to do both live. I don't have tilt-like symptoms live as often (ie I don't swear at bad beats), but I certainly have trouble staying focused at times.

It's hard because I've noticed that sometimes when I engage socially at the table I don't pay as much attention to the action as I'd like, but when I focus ONLY on the action, I get bored and burn out faster. I'm working on finding a good balance with this. Obviously right now, I'm not a huge winner or anything, so my enjoyment still has to be one of the most important factors, so I don't think it makes sense to ALWAYS play silently. But I think I may try to deliberately cut back on conversation to build up my concentration muscles so that if I choose, I can JUST focus on the game in time. Probably won't do this every session, but maybe every other.

Think that's all I have to say for now, except that I'm loving my online game theory class, and most of my new semester classes are going well too. I am taking volleyball for my required phys-ed class this semester, and though I'm a bit bruised (need to learn how to bump better) from today, I had an absolute blast. I really miss my old soccer (footie) days/organized sports etc.

Hopefully will get out to the casino this weekend and run and play a lot better!! Study is my friend ofc and I've been doing more of that as of late, and feel confident that it will have an effect since I just feel more mentally engaged in poker now.

'Til next time.

 

[xdeucesx]

2nd weekend of February, mark your calender

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Well it's official. I am the proud new owner of an old, Dell Dimension 8200. I already have a monitor and the cable for it, so now I just need to get a keyboard and probably another mouse, and I'm set to be grinding online again.

All my Mac-user troubles are gone!! On another note, I am planning a casino trip for tonight, since most of my home game buds can't play tonight. Goals for the session will be:
- Pre-session warm-up -> I want to watch a poker vid and do some range analysis before I even leave for the casino.
- Stay focused -> watch as much of the action as I can even in hands that I'm not involved in.
- Take breaks -> I tend to stay very engaged while at the table, but I definitely have lapses and find myself getting off-track mentally. These are times when I'd like to take a quick break, maybe get a snack, and just stretch my legs, as well as letting my mind "reset."
- Profit -> Okay, well this one I can only control so much, but basically I just want to play my best game, be disciplined, and if the cards don't fall too much against me, I'll reach this one for sure.

Cheers guys!

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Mandatory complaining post:

Lost 1.16 BIs today. Currently on a 6 BI downswing. Which I have to say really hurts when you're playing for 20x what you're used to in the online world. Was planning to grind tomorrow, but we'll see how I'm feeling mentally tomorrow.

Will give a better update later on this past session. For now I need to get to sleep and let my ego-wounds heal.

 

[youregoodmate]

Mandatory complaining post:

Lost 1.16 BIs today. Currently on a 6 BI downswing. Which I have to say really hurts when you're playing for 20x what you're used to in the online world. Was planning to grind tomorrow, but we'll see how I'm feeling mentally tomorrow.

Will give a better update later on this past session. For now I need to get to sleep and let my ego-wounds heal.

Downswings feel so much worse live dont they. Had a 7-8 BI swing live the other week, even worse 4-5 of them were against close mates.

Just stick at it and forget every session thats been when you walk in. How many nights a week do you play?

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Downswings feel so much worse live dont they. Had a 7-8 BI swing live the other week, even worse 4-5 of them were against close mates.

Just stick at it and forget every session thats been when you walk in. How many nights a week do you play?

Well as you might know, I turned 21 very recently - late September. So for a lot of the semester I was doing on average 1 night per week, but at the end of last semester when I was hitting finals (ie lots of free time cause no classes), I was going 2+ nights a week, but defining "nights" is tricky because I also was degenning it up pretty hard.

My goal for this semester is 10+ hours/week as an absolute minimum, which will translate into 1 night/week minimum, hoping to average close to 2 nights/week or more. My whole schedule isn't quite nailed down yet, so right now I know that I can do Friday and Saturday nights (missing the occasional for social reasons), but there may also be times when I can do a night during the week too.

Speaking as someone who went on a 30-BI downswing at online cash games at one point, yes, I would say live is harder. But it's not just that it's more money. It's also that the overwhelming statement about live is about how bad everyone is, so it's tough to remember that no matter how bad they are, I can still lose over a small sample (and obv if I play bad).

Okay here's one hand from last night. Blinds are $1/$2. There were two players at my table who were regularly straddling when they were UTG. I am in the SB with TT. UTG+1, MP, and CO all call the $5 straddle. I raise to $25 with my TT. Everyone folds except for MP, who flats. MP was a little weird to get a read on. He seemed to be a pretty solid player, making raises into weak ranges to get people off marginal hands, and just overall not tossing his money away too easily. I had about $300 behind and he had me covered.

(Pot: $67)
Flop: 532r

Obviously I'm feeling pretty good about this flop. MP was playing a pretty wide range against raises, and wasn't very aggressive preflop, so the limp-straddle/flat told me almost nothing about his cards. I bet $40, thinking he would float me decently wide, or I would take down the $67 pot a fair amount of the time. I figured when he called he would have either a pair, a decent A, or double broadway. He quickly flatted my $40 bet and we went to the turn.

(Pot: $147)
Turn: Ar

Well, obviously this is the worst card in the deck for me, and smashes his range imo. I guess there could be a case made for turning tens into a bluff here and just hoping he has no A and going for a bet/fold, but I elect to check. He checks behind.

(Pot: $147)
River: 6r

At this point I don't think there's any reason for me to bet, as I don't think he can really call me with worse unless he ends up levelling himself big time. I go for a check, and he bets a quick $30. I called.

In retrospect I think calling the river bet is an absolutely awful play. First of all, he never bluffs with that sizing into this pot, EVER. So he has no bluffs. Second, is there any chance at all that he value bets as weak as 99 here? Maybe... but 88? 77? A pair of 6s? Kind of hard to know, but I sort of doubt it. My line looks somewhat bluff-y, but it's probably more consistent with exactly the type of hand I have, a medium-strength PP. I think this is also a really good example hand of why it sucks to play OOP.

Thoughts?

 

[xdeucesx]

in hand above,


I probably continue on turn like 100% of time. By checking turn, you pretty much play your hand face up and you said villian is a somewhat okay player, meaning even he could probably assume you had a middle pp. If he has a set ( which i'm guessing he did lol) , then he's checking back the turn all the time as well, knowing you didn't like that A and hoping to keep you in the hand. If he doesn't have set, but something like a 5x, two broadway etc., he can bet the turn and get you off the best hand many times as well.

But let's not be results-oriented, double barrel that turn bc if not, villians are going to either be able to A. take a free card to make a set, 2p etc. > your 1010 B. bet turn and push you off hand

His bet on river is so lolsmall that it's obviously either a set or the 4 for a straight. You were right in assuming he's never bluffing/purely valuebetting and he bet small enough to get a hand like middle PP's to call.

I like your play pre/on the flop, but on the turn things get a bit sketchy for me

 

[Matt Vaughan]

in hand above,


I probably continue on turn like 100% of time. By checking turn, you pretty much play your hand face up and you said villian is a somewhat okay player, meaning even he could probably assume you had a middle pp. If he has a set ( which i'm guessing he did lol) , then he's checking back the turn all the time as well, knowing you didn't like that A and hoping to keep you in the hand. If he doesn't have set, but something like a 5x, two broadway etc., he can bet the turn and get you off the best hand many times as well.

But let's not be results-oriented, double barrel that turn bc if not, villians are going to either be able to A. take a free card to make a set, 2p etc. > your 1010 B. bet turn and push you off hand

His bet on river is so lolsmall that it's obviously either a set or the 4 for a straight. You were right in assuming he's never bluffing/purely valuebetting and he bet small enough to get a hand like middle PP's to call.

I like your play pre/on the flop, but on the turn things get a bit sketchy for me

Okay, I like your analysis a lot. I didn't think about it that way on the turn, because as you said, he is a relatively thinking opponent, and I didn't adjust enough for this (used to people playing just their own hand live for the most part). My thinking at the time was that his range just becomes too strong that betting the turn is basically a pure bluff, which didn't seem right. Obv by that thinking the riv is a snap-fold, but I was def a bit tilty by then.

For the record, this was the first session where I ever legit "tilt-spewed" live. It wasn't a lot, and I forced myself to leave after about 10 minutes after that hand (so I'm very proud of that), but it was bad haha.

Also in retrospect, I likely should have moved off this table, as most of the table was "solid" in the sense that people weren't going crazy much, and there were a couple players who came and went who seemed pretty decent.

 

[xdeucesx]

Okay, I like your analysis a lot. I didn't think about it that way on the turn, because as you said, he is a relatively thinking opponent, and I didn't adjust enough for this (used to people playing just their own hand live for the most part). My thinking at the time was that his range just becomes too strong that betting the turn is basically a pure bluff, which didn't seem right. Obv by that thinking the riv is a snap-fold, but I was def a bit tilty by then.

For the record, this was the first session where I ever legit "tilt-spewed" live. It wasn't a lot, and I forced myself to leave after about 10 minutes after that hand (so I'm very proud of that), but it was bad haha.

Also in retrospect, I likely should have moved off this table, as most of the table was "solid" in the sense that people weren't going crazy much, and there were a couple players who came and went who seemed pretty decent.

Yeah I mean, villain did limp/call, so i'd give his range 22-99, A2-A8s, 34s-J10s,

on that board, I'd say the A on the turn sucks only bc it put a straight on the board. If it was instead, something like 562A, I really like that turn card for our range, since were hitting that turn far more often then villain would be.

 

[Ducky7]

Wiiiindows, is this now the live and online merged grind?

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Good question - I was actually just trying to decide if I want to create a new thread. But frankly I don't think I want to keep track of what's going on in both, so yes: at least for now, this will be...

The Live and Online Rang... I mean -> Grind-Merge. I like it.

Some online spots coming soon. For now: homeworks

 

[Dorugremon]

I turned 21 this past September and every chance I've had since then I've been playing live. I'm a full-time student, so it's sometimes hard to find the time, but hopefully I'll continue to be able to go on a frequent basis.

I play $1/$2 ($200 max BI) no limit hold'em.

Good going, making the transition. The A Number One thing to keep in mind is that at live play, your opponents are right there, not sitting behind a screen somewhere. That's free information for the taking. The biggest mistake I see from on-line players is not getting a line on the other players. It's as major a mistake as not availing yourself of statistics and HUDs when playing on-line.

Bad, loose passive woman two to my left. I'm in the SB and she decides to straddle (makes it $5 blind, and gets to close the action preflop). Only one caller, from the HJ and it's folded to me. I look at AhAs and raise it to $20. BB folds, straddle calls, HJ folds. So we go to the flop heads up.

(Pot: $46)
Flop: 9c9s8d

I lead out for $35, and she quickly calls (this was very common - she was basically a calling station). I put her on a decent pair, like TT+, double broadway, and Ax (I had seen her call with very weak Ax to standard raises).

(Pot: $116)
Turn: 7c

For what I figured she had, the 7 didn't scare me, and given the preflop action shouldn't have scared her. I asked her how much she had behind because she was covering it (pet peeve), and she had $180 behind. I lead out again, this time for $70, and she called quickly again. At this point she has to have something, because normally she would shut down without at the very least a pair here. I weighted her much more toward a decent pair.

(Pot: $256)
River: Ks

Now, I wasn't super excited about this card, because based on her range, it's kind of a scare card. But I didn't think she would fold TT+ here, and that's heavily what I put her on, so I elected to shove the remaining $110 into the middle.
___________________________________

I'm on the BTN holding J7hh. MP opens to $12 (the standard raise at the table), and gets 2 callers. I elect to call, which is pretty loose imo, but with position and with the pot already bloated, I felt okay about it, especially since someone else could call in the blinds. SB folded, BB called, and we went to the flop 5-way.

(Pot: $61)
Flop: Jd5h4h

I flop top pair and a FD, which is basically the best I could have hoped for. BB checks, and the original MP opener bets $40. The two people ahead of me snap-fold. This player was tight, and at this point he could definitely have a big pair like QQ+, but he was definitely capable of c-betting AQ+ here. After the $40 bet he had ~$100 behind. I decided to shove over him, thinking that even if he had something like AA, I could hit any J, any 7, and any heart to win. I also didn't have an image of so much aggression with just draws, so I thought he would fold overpairs sometimes (but not all the time), expecting I had a set.

I still like how I played this hand because of my sick amount of equity. In retrospect I kind of think of this hand more like a 3bet pot, simply because the SPR is so low, and once he pops it on the flop I'm probably fine getting my money in.

Both these examples exemplify the same mistake. You give these players too much credit. You encounter a lot of rec players, fish, and gambly types in live play. You're not in there with a table full of Tom "Durrr" Dwan's. They're not paying attention and are frequently playing group Solitaire. They think "range" means that appliance they cook on, and "equity" has something to do with real estate. They have no appreciation about bet sizing, and I once had an opponent lead into me and one other player for $50 into a $300 pot when he hit his flush on the turn. I insta-called with my flopped set, having ten outs and getting 7 : 1 odds to call. Yeah, $50 is a lot when you're filling the tank of your SUV, but it's tiny in comparison to what was out there in the center of the table. They don't consider that. They don't consider the size of the stacks as opposed to the pot size. It goes right over their heads with parsecs to spare because they don't even know these things are considerations.

This is not to say you should auto-assume every opponent at your table is a yutz. Most are, but you should always be aware of who's there and how they're playing. You just might find someone like me sitting there, and I will take your stack if you're not careful.

"I lead out for $35, and she quickly calls (this was very common - she was basically a calling station). I put her on a decent pair, like TT+, double broadway, and Ax (I had seen her call with very weak Ax to standard raises)".

You can't assume that. Yeah, if this were a reasonable, knowledgeable player, it's a likely range for her to have. However, you can't rule out that she might have a nine. These players see something like (8, 9-off) and think: "Hmmmm... this looks interesting", and they'll call even if you made it $35 on top with aces wired. They're not thinking about your possible raising range, not considering that they're likely way behind. They're thinking: "Pretty!", and they're calling. Later, you can't rule out the possibility that they flopped a set because they just might have.

I had a very similar situation: pocket aces, big preflop raise, one caller OTB. Flopped: 9, 9, 2 -- rainbow. Standard sized, 2/3rds pot c-bet. He called. Pot sized turn bet after some irrelevant card dropped off, and he shoves over the lead. This would often be a call. Against a reasonable player, you have equity to call. Here, I hero folded, as I knew this player would never make that play without at least a nine. They will show you some of the damnedest hands, so never think it's inconceivable he has what he's repping, because he just might have it against all logic and good sense.

Spoiler

He called the preflop raise with pocket deuces, flopped the underfull, and got pist when I refused to pay him off. He showed while screaming: "How could you fold now?!" When asked about this play, he told the player to his immediate left that he always plays pocket deuces all the way to the river. At first, I doubted that, but his later play confirmed: he always plays pocker deuces to the river.

The second hand:

"I'm on the BTN holding J7hh. MP opens to $12 (the standard raise at the table), and gets 2 callers. I elect to call, which is pretty loose imo, but with position and with the pot already bloated, I felt okay about it, especially since someone else could call in the blinds. SB folded, BB called, and we went to the flop 5-way".

So far, so good. I would advise, however, that while you're adjusting to live play, to stay away from such hands. You're not costing yourself all that much by passing, especially while you're learning.

"I decided to shove over him, thinking that even if he had something like AA, I could hit any J, any 7, and any heart to win. I also didn't have an image of so much aggression with just draws, so I thought he would fold overpairs sometimes (but not all the time), expecting I had a set".

This is just plain bad figuring. Unless you really know your player, this is the wrong way to play. Rec players are never laying down an overpair. If he had pocket aces, then it's a "till death do us part" proposition. It takes a thinking player to make that lay down, so you have no fold equity here. Your best play would be to call the c-bet, keep the pot small, until you actually hit that draw. No sense in making it more expensive than it needs to be. Just call with position. For the most part, your opponents aren't thinking much beyond the "I can has aces!" level. Your hand hardly figures into their "calculations" once they see the flop. You don't need to be tricky here. If you hit the flush, trip up, or make two pair, they'll still call when you shove into them, and curse their "bad luck" when those pocket rockets go down in flames.

Don't overestimate your opponents, and don't be going to Level Three when they hardly get past Level Zero. You don't want to just blithely think every opponent is an unthinking fish, but a lot of the times, that's just what they are.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Good going, making the transition. The A Number One thing to keep in mind is that at live play, your opponents are right there, not sitting behind a screen somewhere. That's free information for the taking. The biggest mistake I see from on-line players is not getting a line on the other players. It's as major a mistake as not availing yourself of statistics and HUDs when playing on-line.
...
...
...
Don't overestimate your opponents, and don't be going to Level Three when they hardly get past Level Zero. You don't want to just blithely think every opponent is an unthinking fish, but a lot of the times, that's just what they are.

Welcome to the thread! Thanks for posting.

Obviously a huge amount of the mistakes I make right now are related to the differences between live and online, as you pointed out, so a big part of what I'm trying to do right now is gain experience live.

Imo, a lot of it has to do with how differently live ranges and online ranges contort given certain action at a table. For example, a 3bet preflop in an online $25nl game is very standard in some situations. In a live $200nl game though, a 3bet, even from a more active player, will usually represent a significantly stronger holding.

Getting a bit bogged down tonight with homework guys, but I'll get around to posting some hands soon! A bunch of my friends are in a fraternity that has a casino night rush event tomorrow, so I'll be playing that instead of going to the casino, but I'm hoping to get back to the casino Saturday afternoon/evening at least.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

An Update of the Longer Variety

Well, as some of you who follow this thread know, I managed to get in another long live session this weekend. Was at the casino for over 15 hours (overnight), and played for about 14.5 hours total. A few have asked me about how I manage to play sessions overnight/that are so long, so I may address some of those issues in a later post. Obviously the numbers are never the whole story, but here are some numbers for fun:

Session Stats
Profit: $181
Play Time: 14:32
Hourly Rate: $12.45

Monthly Stats
Profit: -$230
Play Time: 53:25
Hourly Rate: -$4.31

"Lifetime" Stats
Profit: $-34
Play Time: 151:06
Hourly Rate: -$0.23

Just to recap, I hit a 6-BI downswing which started with one losing session pre-winter break, and then continued after winter break with 3 losing sessions in a row in January. I then had a great session last weekend which went +2.5 BIs on a ~20-hour session. This weekend I only played the one session, and went +0.9 BIs.

I feel I've been playing much more solid and disciplined as the semester goes on, and as I get back into the swing of playing. It's a great feeling. There are definitely still spots where I'm spazzing big time though. Here's the biggest spazz from my session this weekend. It sucked because like my 3rd hand in I hit a set and was paid off, so I was actually up about half a buy in. Oh well:

Playing $1/$2 no limit, and I'm sitting on the button. UTG+1 raises to $12, and it folds to me. I have AKdd, and decide to flat. (Thought about 3betting here but for some reason convinced myself not to.) The SB flats as well and the BB folds, so we go 3-way to the flop.

(Pot: $38)
Flop: Th6s3d

The SB checks, and UTG+1 bets out $25. I had only been on the table maybe 20 minutes, and didn't know if this betting size was normal, but in many MANY situations, the big sizing would indicate strength. I hem and haw, not wanting to give up AK, and make a fairly questionable float 3way, since the continuation bet is more likely to be strong in a MW pot. SB thinks for about 30 seconds, then smooth calls.

(Pot: $113)
Turn: Kc

The SB then shoves all in for $46. UTG+1 just calls, with about $25 behind. The pot is now about $200, and I must call about $50. It's a pretty gross spot because I've just made top pair, and SB is repping very few combos of value hands. But also, UTG+1 has now called off for a huge % of his stack, which looks super strong, since he can't really ever fold for his remaining $25ish. I make what I now think is a very bad call. We go to the river 3-handed with one player all in.

(Pot: $251)
River: Ah

I just made top two. UTG+1 shoves his remaining $23 in and I snap call getting better than 11:1. There's a side pot of $46.

Spoiler

UTG+1 shows 33 for a flopped set, and SB shows QJss for a runner-runner straight.

Analysis:

Okay, well obviously that didn't go so well. I think 3betting preflop is a very viable option, as 3bets tend to get called SO wide preflop in live games, but I convinced myself that opening from UTG+1, he had to be strong enough that I didn't need to 3bet (especially since the field had already been narrowed).

On the flop, I think I made a minor mistake that ended up being amplified due to things on later streets. In an online game, floating the flop makes tons of sense since I'm still crushing villain's cbetting range. But live, it's a bit different, as many players will check flops where they miss and don't have a pair in their end. I think the flop is close, but a fold.

On the turn, it all goes to hell. First of all, the SB shoving all in should be a snap-fold for me. It's an instance of needing to understand relative hand strength. Yes I made top pair, but the fact that the SB called the flop bet and then shoves the turn looks crazy strong. In retrospect I think I'd be putting him on KT, QJ, and sets. Should be an easy fold, ESPECIALLY since UTG+1 then smooth calls. Just looks so redic strong to just flat with only $23 behind imo. And even the fact that he's calling makes it obvious he wasn't just bluff-cbetting the flop. Oh well, more mistakes.

On the river - can I really fold? Almost seems criminal to fold it now, as I can now beat other two pairs, but even as I made the call I didn't expect to be good.



This brings me to a point about poker in general, but even more so about live than online games. You absolutely CANNOT let the swings during an individual session throw you off. I started off the session almost instantly up half a buy-in, then I was down about half a buy-in. I rebought some, then ended up busting, so I was in the game for 2.25 BIs total. I ended up grinding through and was +1.6 BIs at my peak.

Actually the most frustrating part of the session was not the swings, but rather when I was sitting nearly 400bb deep with multiple loose passive fish at my table for about 3.5 hours, and went card dead or got counterfeited with big pocket pairs post flop. But oh well. No matter how +EV a situation is, it's never a guarantee you will win big!!

Anyway, that's all for now folks! Will perhaps post some more hands from that session in a day or two, or maybe some online spots to shake things up.

 

[Ducky7]

Flop is like the dryest board ever so floating is meh, with no reads and MW probably not for the best. Obvs just 3b pre next time and save yourself all the trouble, i want to fold the turn given the action and how dry the board is, as its pretty hard for me to see you being infront, obvs as played when you river the A you cant ever fold coz you now beat some 2p combos

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Flop is like the dryest board ever so floating is meh, with no reads and MW probably not for the best. Obvs just 3b pre next time and save yourself all the trouble, i want to fold the turn given the action and how dry the board is, as its pretty hard for me to see you being infront, obvs as played when you river the A you cant ever fold coz you now beat some 2p combos

Yep ^ basically what I thought 100% in retrospect. Occasionally I get pretty foggy at the table though

I think it was also a product of essentially just having sat down - it can still be hard to be focused right when going in. This is something I plan to work on

 

[Ducky7]

Tbf when i play live i play lol bad dno why, think its hard to read the game as easy as you do online, or maybe thats just me

 

[Beanfacekilla]

Tbf when i play live i play lol bad dno why, think its hard to read the game as easy as you do online, or maybe thats just me

I feel just the opposite. People are easy to read live. However, reading people online is much more difficult for me.

 

[Ducky7]

My guess would then be you learned to play live, and have adapted to online? im of these internet kids (except im really bad at poker) and have had to adapt to live play

 

[Beanfacekilla]

My guess would then be you learned to play live, and have adapted to online? im of these internet kids (except im really bad at poker) and have had to adapt to live play

Yes I did learn to play live. People project tons of info on a live table. All you have to do is pay attention.

 

[ScottishMatt]

Tried to bluff a fish today, apparently their is odds and logic to their methods of "pwning" me. Apparently if I had a big pocket pair 2 hands back it means I can't have one now...


Gl with your live grind Scourrge, I'm thinking about checking out some local casino's and trying live, 1/2 live is like 2nl online right?

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Tried to DO THE IMPOSSIBLE today, apparently their is odds and logic to their methods of "pwning" me. Apparently if I had a big pocket pair 2 hands back it means I can't have one now...

FYP.

And yeah, I think that how you learned to play has a huge effect, though I am starting to pick up on more things live. Betting action is still always the backbone of my decisions, but I also use some feel and sometimes recent history to make decisions (did this player lose a huge pot recently, does his body language between hands suggest frustration over it, etc).

 

[Ducky7]

Yes I did learn to play live. People project tons of info on a live table. All you have to do is pay attention.

oh yeah i understand that, but i mean the reading of the game, ie stack sizes, raise sizes, ranges (for some reason live i put everyone on the nuts allllllll the time) and i make a tonne of mistakes with my hands i think that i wouldnt online if that makes sense, im good at picking up on the info (somewhat) just my play really

 

[Matt Vaughan]

oh yeah i understand that, but i mean the reading of the game, ie stack sizes, raise sizes, ranges (for some reason live i put everyone on the nuts allllllll the time) and i make a tonne of mistakes with my hands i think that i wouldnt online if that makes sense, im good at picking up on the info (somewhat) just my play really

A lot of online players find it harder to focus at the live table for a number of reasons. Some of things I've noticed myself:

- There's a lot to keep track of -> Stacks, blinds, calculating pot size, are all done for you online, but not live
- More "excitement" -> a card room is a bustling place, and it can be harder to focus on the action
- Socializing -> There's obviously a social aspect to live poker that doesn't exist in online poker.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Well a pretty disappointing weekend. Played an overnight session for +1 BI, then went -1.5 BIs in a one-hour session, and -2 BIs in a two-hour session, so pretty bad...

Fairly busy during the start of the week, so hopefully I'll have a chance to post some hands before they fade from my memory.