Live Grind: How to Not Fall Asleep at the Table

[Matt Vaughan]

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/joebobs-return-ashes-209423/

Hmmm... Ok think I'll just get the kindle version then. I'm a cheapskate.

 

[JOEBOB69]

I don't remember seeing prob over 4 or 5 black and white pics in the book. It's all about the content and quality and the book delivers in my eyes.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

I've already ordered!! Haha. Also I didn't realize that there's "Kindle for Mac," "Kindle for iphone," etc, so I'm currently looking at it on my computer monitor, but also got it on my Kindle. Excited to start reading and applying!!

 

[Dorugremon]

There seems to be a disturbing theme running through the last couple of pages of Scourrge's posts.

This looks like the description of your basic runbad. It happens, and runbad can last a lot longer than you'd think possible, and/or would like to see. Hell, I had a case of runbad/carddead that lasted for most of 2012. If it hadn't been for December, I would've ended the year in the red for sure.

You simply can't let it get to you, and that's what I'm sensing here, as in looking specifically for hero folds. Running nutscared, constantly thinking "they're gonna cooler me again" when you have a good hand, all that does is prolong the runbad. If you allow that to color your thinking, it's definitely not good. Sometimes, even the worst fish can sense when you're not comfortable, they won't respect you like they should, and you will get bluffed off too many hands, or called down light, or they'll chase you relentlessly because they "know" you're an "unlucky" player.

It's not an easy thing by any means (then, again, poker isn't easy) but you have to develop the mind set that every session is a separate business transaction. What happened the last time has zero bearing on what happens this time. You have to satisfy yourself that you're making good decisions. If your flopped top set gets nailed by a fish hitting a runner-runner flush, or an inside straight he had no business playing in the first place, them's the breaks. The fish wouldn't keep coming back if they didn't win one once in awhile. If you can satisfy yourself that you're making good decisions, making accurate reads of the other players, and are making the +EV plays, then it doesn't matter how any one hand actually turns out. Not even the luckiest fish can buck the odds and expect to come out ahead over the long run. If you lose a couple of BI's, just figure it's a loan to the fish, and you'll collect it with interest later.

I think it would benefit Scourrge to take some time off for self examination to see if this isn't a case of low level tilt. Go in with a defeatist attitude, and you will be defeated.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

There seems to be a disturbing theme running through the last couple of pages of Scourrge's posts.

This looks like the description of your basic runbad. It happens, and runbad can last a lot longer than you'd think possible, and/or would like to see. Hell, I had a case of runbad/carddead that lasted for most of 2012. If it hadn't been for December, I would've ended the year in the red for sure.

You simply can't let it get to you, and that's what I'm sensing here, as in looking specifically for hero folds. Running nutscared, constantly thinking "they're gonna cooler me again" when you have a good hand, all that does is prolong the runbad. If you allow that to color your thinking, it's definitely not good. Sometimes, even the worst fish can sense when you're not comfortable, they won't respect you like they should, and you will get bluffed off too many hands, or called down light, or they'll chase you relentlessly because they "know" you're an "unlucky" player.

It's not an easy thing by any means (then, again, poker isn't easy) but you have to develop the mind set that every session is a separate business transaction. What happened the last time has zero bearing on what happens this time. You have to satisfy yourself that you're making good decisions. If your flopped top set gets nailed by a fish hitting a runner-runner flush, or an inside straight he had no business playing in the first place, them's the breaks. The fish wouldn't keep coming back if they didn't win one once in awhile. If you can satisfy yourself that you're making good decisions, making accurate reads of the other players, and are making the +EV plays, then it doesn't matter how any one hand actually turns out. Not even the luckiest fish can buck the odds and expect to come out ahead over the long run. If you lose a couple of BI's, just figure it's a loan to the fish, and you'll collect it with interest later.

I think it would benefit Scourrge to take some time off for self examination to see if this isn't a case of low level tilt. Go in with a defeatist attitude, and you will be defeated.

First of all, thanks for your post. Nice to have some fresh blood in here. I have a few things to say in response:

For one thing, you're probably seeing an unfair skew of the hands towards ones I folded, simply because if I fold on the river, I often won't get to see what villain had, and either correct myself on the obviously bad play or see that I was in fact right that it was close, etc. So while I agree that the factors you're mentioning may be valid, don't think that these are the only types of hands I have problems with There have been a number of times recently where I got it all in with a hand like two pair against someone I shouldn't have. Not because of "luck" but because of nittiness, etc.

Second, it's hard for me to impress on people in this thread how aware I am of mental game issues. I had a long-standing thread on another poker forum relating to mental game, and specifically confronting my own issues in that area. Not claiming to be perfect (I'm far from it) in the mental game, nor an expert (definitely not), but I do understand pretty well the factors you're addressing.

So in that sense, I'm extremely aware of the fact that luck doesn't matter in this game. I'm also aware that the long run takes a god-awful amount of time to arrive, especially receiving only 25 hand/hour or so. However your point about taking frequent beatings leading me to expect the nuts more could have some validity. This would obviously be subconscious for the most part, and even in my post-hand analysis I wouldn't likely realize that my thinking was off, simply because it's deeper down than surface level - it's accumulated expectation of being beat.

That being said, I typically don't play that often - usually only on weekends. So my head pretty much always gets a nice break in between sessions. Another thing is that I will pretty soon be on a forced break from poker for the summer. But I have every intention of trying to get some real hours in before then. If I were receiving a blood bath every time I go, I would definitely take a break. But for the vast majority of the time, I still feel I am making solid, +EV decisions, and judging my edges well. So for now I continue the grind.

Thanks again for your input - really appreciate the thought and energy that goes into both reading and replying. Cheers.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Welp, after 3 very small positive sessions (+80, +50, +50) at live cash, I had a -2 BI session. I spewed a fair amount, so it's mostly my fault, but it was also a pretty weird session in terms of focus because of who was at the table. There were a couple regs, but also one of the massage girls who I talk to regularly, so my head was not really in the game as much as it should have been.

I played a super satty, binked it, and binked the next satty up yesterday that put me into the final $100+$9 tourney. That was today and I came in 10th out of 30 when my KK couldn't hold up against AJo AIPF for ~20bb. I was frustrated to say the least (top 3 paid: $1.5k, $900, $600).

Got a lot of schoolwork for tonight and some studying for finals over the next week or so, but once classes are over after tomorrow I will actually have a fair amount of free time, so I hope to make the most of it and grind a lot live.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

busto.

/end thread

 

[duggs]

What happened?

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Some badly played hands, and some pretty badly run ones.

Final bustout hand was fun: GII against 2 extremely loose players, I had QQ on a J-high board where there were no draws. Turns out they both had just a pair of jacks, and the turn brought the case J.

 

[duggs]

so no more poker?

 

[JOEBOB69]

?!!
Come on

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Well if it makes you feel any better I wasn't going to be able to grind live for the summer anyway since I won't have casino access.

For now, I think so duggs.

And JB, when I lose this much, it just doesn't seem practical to continue. I had a huge mental game nuke go off today, like I'd already left but had some major tilting. There's just so much accumulated crap from booking nothing but losses. I may make a more detailed post about it later, but basically, it just doesn't make sense right now when I don't have a real roll.

 

[JOEBOB69]

Sorry do hear all this,really. It's hard for me to understand a player like your self haveing this big of a down swing at these levels. I mean honestly the players are so bad you should be crushing. I know V and all that but at these stakes+live tells, you just have been running super bad.
Here is to you coming out of this shinning

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

 

[CANDYMAN1414]

play online if you cant get to the casino, probably cheaper too

 

[JOEBOB69]

play online if you cant get to the casino, probably cheaper too

Thread title reads
Live Grind: How to Not Fall Asleep at the Table

With that said he plays/have played online. Me on the other hand i will not deposit money on a online site untill it's licensed here in my state. To do other wise is foolish "IMO" at this point of time.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Thread title reads
Live Grind: How to Not Fall Asleep at the Table

With that said he plays/have played online. Me on the other hand i will not deposit money on a online site untill it's licensed here in my state. To do other wise is foolish "IMO" at this point of time.

Thanks for the backup JB, appreciate it

And at this point the only money I'm willing to put online is money I'm 100% willing to lose for the sake of being able to play poker whenever I want and improve my game through volume. And if I manage to get a couple withdrawals out of it, great, if not, I still accomplish my goal of improving.

As always, thank you all for your amazing support. I've had an absolute blast for most of this journey, even in spite of falling short of some of my expectations. While it will be quite some time before a thread like this becomes relevant for me again, I hope to continue making progress as a player and as a person with you all.

'Til next time.

 

[BluffyouBAD]

How anyone could fall asleep or become bored is beyond me. I study study study and study some more while at the table so that when I am fortunate enough to look down at a big hand I know how to play it.

 

[duggs]

What? Seriously what?


Sorry I hear that Matt, hope it turns around for you. How ba was the downer overall?

 

[Cafeman]

Pretty bad last time showed me, and it just got even worse apparently.

I'm with JB on this one, you are clearly a good player, easily capable of beating the game you're playing, but it just takes soooo long live. When you run bad for a good number of hands, that can obv translate into days and weeks live.

Have a good break anyhoo, I know it did me some good to have 3 months off the end of last year while moving house.

 

[Jillychemung]

I'm with JB on this one, you are clearly a good player, easily capable of beating the game you're playing, but it just takes soooo long live. When you run bad for a good number of hands, that can obv translate into days and weeks live.

+1

Hope you can recharge with some time off, some study and some online play.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Yep. Agree 100%. Just cause I like looking at numbers, even the shitty ones, let's have a look:

Stats
Total Sessions: 47
Total Won: -$2,235 (11.175 BIs)

Total Hours: 293
Average/Hour: -$7.63/hr
Standard Dev./Hour: $154.39

Average/Session: -$47.55
Standard Dev./Session: $306.82

I swung around quite a bit about the zero line for the first 25 sessions, with my highest point at about +500, then went on a downswing, had a few sessions where it looked like it might turn around, but then the carnage continued, culminating in two -2+ BI sessions in a row.

 

[micromachine]

Sorry to hear of your downswing man, I hope you'll still be around on CC even if you decide to take a break from poker for a bit...

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Course I'll be around. Poker isn't going anywhere for me, really. I need a break from the insanity of live downswings, but I am not by any means quitting poker

W/d my roll from lock since they are going down the shitter, currently looking into Bovada as an option for summer grinding, as well as Carbon, but Carbon just significantly increased their rake.

 

[WVHillbilly]

I'd just like to say that I think it's really because you suck. Don't know why the rest of these guys think you should keep playing!