Live Grind: How to Fall Asleep at the Table (Without Getting Caught)

limpnfold88

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Hahahaha I obviously don't always run bad, but ofc I complain more about run bad than state when I run good. Also, it's probably inevitable that I notice run bad more than run good cause I'm a big-headed, egotistical, and narcissistic asshole. :D

Part of it is also that I've been less active on CC in general, and I've been running deece the past few months before the last couple weeks, but haven't been posting about it. I had a 3k session about a month and a half ago playing the Friday night home game -> uncapped 1/2 NL/PLO game in town.

Thanks for dropping in Logan, appreciate it as always. :)

"Running bad" is basically a myth. Over a large sample size of hands, everyone runs just as bad or good as everyone else. Its generally just a term people use to avoid admitting to the fact that they just play poorly lol. Not saying that you do, just meant in general.
 
duggs

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"Running bad" is basically a myth. Over a large sample size of hands, everyone runs just as bad or good as everyone else. Its generally just a term people use to avoid admitting to the fact that they just play poorly lol. Not saying that you do, just meant in general.

ah no, thats not how probabilities work. the only long run in which samples must converge is infinity, in any finite sample there can and will be meaningful divergents from the expected outcome.
 
Matt Vaughan

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"Running bad" is basically a myth. Over a large sample size of hands, everyone runs just as bad or good as everyone else. Its generally just a term people use to avoid admitting to the fact that they just play poorly lol. Not saying that you do, just meant in general.

The ideas of runbad and downswings are definitely mental constructions we use to justify normal deviations from win-rate over a finite sample. And for sure, a lot of people who play poorly use the concept to justify or cover their play. However... This:

ah no, thats not how probabilities work. the only long run in which samples must converge is infinity, in any finite sample there can and will be meaningful divergents from the expected outcome.

Especially when it comes to live poker, for sure there will be people who have run outrageously good or outrageously bad over their finite and not-particularly-close-to-infinity sample size. Plus in a game like poker, running above average at certain points can make enormous differences, even if you've technically not had above average luck overall.

For example, someone who takes a shot at a bigger game and runs good may be able to remain rolled for that game from there on out. But if he runs bad, he may be knocked down for a long time, and even if not, it's capping future earnings because he's stuck at that lower level for some period of time.

Probably less so than the average poker player imo.

Heh, thanks bud. I'm working on it, especially because I want to be improving my game. Feelings of entitlement only make improving more difficult.
 
Mr Sandbag

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For example, someone who takes a shot at a bigger game and runs good may be able to remain rolled for that game from there on out. But if he runs bad, he may be knocked down for a long time, and even if not, it's capping future earnings because he's stuck at that lower level for some period of time.

I don't think stuff like this is discussed enough in poker. Life and timing affects poker tremendously. Something I've thought about quite a few times is if I'd even be playing poker had I run bad at the very beginning.
 
xdeucesx

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This is especially true for MTT "pros". Guys who just run white hot in one big MTT and bink and manage to spin it into sponsorships, press, etc. Obv not all of them, but guys like Moneymaker fall into that category.
 
Jillychemung

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some interesting stuff on this site

I see this all the time at the Club
'the more you act as if forces other than fair and random distribution of cards determine your fate, the worse you’ll do.'
 
xdeucesx

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lolmikecaro. I'm surprised he's still around in the poker world tbh.
 
BigCountryGB

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Hello, I just wanted to pop in and say what an entertaining thread this is. It's taken me what felt like forever but I've finally read through all 40 pages and am caught up!

As a new poker player I've really enjoyed following your story Scourrge and getting a chance to read all the interesting discussions and analysis.

Now that I'm caught up I hope it doesn't end too soon! :D
 
Mr Sandbag

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Yeah like when I first started playing I mostly played tourneys. And despite being awful at poker I binked or cashed in a few at the local charity place. This was the beginning of my roll, and without this run good at this exact point I probably don't continue.

Then I started to play 1/2 nl cash with a SUPER shallow roll and no knowledge of BRM or even basic fundamentals. Def had my fair share of losses but never went bust somehow. More nicely timed luck.

Really is quite amazing how much run good got me to this point, and that's not even accounting for the fact that i was a few BI from going bust and quitting yet again but experienced a massive heater before it happened.

All in the context of the reality that if I hadn't gotten laid off from my job a few years ago I dont even play poker more than once or twice a month and never really improve much.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Hello, I just wanted to pop in and say what an entertaining thread this is. It's taken me what felt like forever but I've finally read through all 40 pages and am caught up!

As a new poker player I've really enjoyed following your story Scourrge and getting a chance to read all the interesting discussions and analysis.

Now that I'm caught up I hope it doesn't end too soon! :D

Wow, thanks for the interest, and don't worry, thread won't be dying any time soon! It may be a bit slow for a while, but Vegas trip in a month should help it pick back up.

Yeah like when I first started playing I mostly played tourneys. And despite being awful at poker I binked or cashed in a few at the local charity place. This was the beginning of my roll, and without this run good at this exact point I probably don't continue.

Then I started to play 1/2 nl cash with a SUPER shallow roll and no knowledge of BRM or even basic fundamentals. Def had my fair share of losses but never went bust somehow. More nicely timed luck.

Really is quite amazing how much run good got me to this point, and that's not even accounting for the fact that i was a few BI from going bust and quitting yet again but experienced a massive heater before it happened.

All in the context of the reality that if I hadn't gotten laid off from my job a few years ago I dont even play poker more than once or twice a month and never really improve much.

Yeah, well said.
 
duggs

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iv necro'd my thread, so you better all mosey on over there
 
Matt Vaughan

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Psh. Thread hijack alert. What does D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T-E spell??

I broke my losing streak at a home game tonight. Of course it happens when I'm playing 5x less than my ideal stakes, but whatever. Nice to book a more than 10bb win and have a good time doing it.

In other poker related news, I finally finished off an article for CC on multitabling online poker (yeah, it's for noobs), and have several other assignments that should be finished in the next few weeks. Also, my gf is out of town for the weekend, so the plan is to have a solid poker-filled weekend:

Friday: Work, take short break to get car looked at (scheduled maintenance), work a bit more, then the uncapped 1/2 live game. Pass out sometime Saturday morning for > 5 hours.

Saturday: Drive to Milwaukee, check in to hotel, put in an afternoon/evening grind session at primarily 2/5 at Potawatomi.

Sunday: Check out of hotel midmorning, put in afternoon session at Poto. Drive home, unsure where I'll grab food - depends on when I quite my session.

Basically hoping to get at least 20 hours of grind time this weekend, and I think 30 is attainable if I rest well tonight and don't hit weird traffic or anything. In the coming months I'm hoping to start up a routine of spending one weekend every 4-6 weeks in Milwaukee grinding the crap out of the 2/5 there. It's a game that I think is quite beatable, so I want to make some cash and build my BR, but also begin to build a real sample. If I can keep that up for 8-10 months or so, I should start to have a pretty good idea of the regs, the overall game dynamics, as well as a barebones start to seeing what I might be able to win from it.

Bit annoying that the casino isn't closer, but one nice thing about it being just far enough away is that a drive to stay over makes me feel committed to playing a lot of hours. I'm more focused on the long-term because I'm not planning to leave if I suffer one bad beat. Plus staying in a hotel makes it feel just a bit like a get away, which is nice sometimes.

Will try to post an update while there, maybe even with some hands??!?!?!?!? *cue collective gasp*
 
Matt Vaughan

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Phase I of the weekend was a success. Played a 10ish hour session and walked away with my second biggest cash game win ever - only $55 beneath my current biggest winning session.

Obviously ran pretty hot, but for the most part played pretty well too, so overall quite pleased. And just nice to head into the rest of the weekend with that buffer.
 
Jillychemung

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Will try to post an update while there, maybe even with some hands??!?!?!?!? *cue collective gasp*

You got the 1st part checked off :) How'd the rest of the weekend go?
 
Matt Vaughan

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You got the 1st part checked off :) How'd the rest of the weekend go?

Thanks for the bump Jilly. :) it's funny, I had all these big plans for the weekend, and somehow I didn't manage to find any time to write.

My second session of the weekend was a little bit disappointing. When I got there, there was already an open seat for 2/5, so I sat there immediately. I'd brought $2k with me, so I felt pretty good about being able to just sit right down and play hard for a potentially long session. Pretty quickly I realized that this was going to be an interesting trip. Most of the table was fairly loose, with multiple players taking this to an unlikely extreme. One player across the table from me - who I later found out owns a bunch of gas stations nearby - was was so crazy that he was making $200 blind pets pre-flop every few orbits. You'd think that this was a recipe for a great session. Unfortunately things really didn't go my way.

I spent the majority of the session folding pre-flop. And no, this was not on account of my extreme discipline. Most of my hands were so atrocious that I couldn't afford to put even $5 in with them. I was dealt nine two off suit at least 15 times in my five hour session, and I certainly had my fair share of eight hi, seven hi, six hi, and so on. When I did get hands they were usually big ones - pocket kings, ace king, pocket jacks. But I usually lost small pots and occasionally big ones. This culminated in a spot where two players limped in a straddled pot, and I made it $55 to go with pocket kings and got three callers. The flop came a bittersweet KQJ two tone, and the action checked to me. I briefly considered checking because of how wet the board was, and because of how loose everyone was playing. But I decided a bet was much better.

I bet $170 and it folded around to one player who shoved all in. He was neither particularly loose or tight, nor particularly passive or aggressive. I decided that I always had enough equity (with about $400 behind) to make the call, but I certainly wasn't excited about it. He turned over ace ten off suit, and while an ace on the turn gave me additional chop outs, I couldn't get there on the river.

I'll spare you the details of the additional beats that I took in this game, mostly because I don't feel like reliving them, but suffice it to say that I didn't really win a substantial pot for the entire night and I walked away with no money in my wallet. I certainly wasn't anticipating having such a bad session after the previous night's huge win, but I especially wasn't expecting to have to go to an ATM to finish out the weekend.

I had somewhat mixed feelings about playing on Sunday, because I knew I wasn't 100% mentally. But I decided to suck it up and push through since the whole point of the weekend was to get a lot of hours in. Sunday was fairly swingy, with my $1000 being put into play fairly quickly. At one point I was down over $700, but I fought back, ran into some fortunate spots, and walked away with just a hair under $1000 profit.

If anything, the poker was the least interesting part of my weekend. I encountered a guy at the tables who I had played with before on multiple occasions. He had played the MSPT, and railed me a little bit at the final table. We got along quite well and chatted through much of the evening. He knew that I was living in Madison and asked me what I did for fun, mentioning a particular street (one that a lot of college kids hang out around). I said that I don't really go out much, but that I do like the area around Madison a lot. At one point he mentioned - partly to me, and partly to the person between us - that I would be perfect for his daughter.

At the end of his session Saturday night, he came over to me and asked if he could talk to me, so I stepped away from the table and asked what was up. I really can't remember his exact words, but they were not what I was expecting. He said he knew it was a little weird, but his daughter was 25 years old, and that we would really get along. He tried to hand me a piece of paper with his daughters phone number on it, but before he got too far into trying to convince me, I told him that I had a girlfriend. I felt a little bad but I also wasn't sure what the appropriate response was. I said I appreciated it, because I did. I like the guy himself and had nothing against it, but also am unsure how I would have reacted if I was single, since it was frankly a bit bizarre. (Thoughts on this super welcome.)

All in all, I played 25 hours, had a $2000 weekend, and got asked out by a girl's dad. Not bad. Not bad at all.
 
Logan2

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I encountered a guy at the tables He knew that I was living in Madison and asked me what I did for fun, mentioning a particular street (one that a lot of college kids hang out around). I said that I don't really go out much, but that I do like the area around Madison a lot. At one point he mentioned - partly to me, and partly to the person between us - that I would be perfect for his daughter.

At the end of his session Saturday night, he came over to me and asked if he could talk to me, so I stepped away from the table and asked what was up. I really can't remember his exact words, but they were not what I was expecting. He said he knew it was a little weird, but his daughter was 25 years old, and that we would really get along. He tried to hand me a piece of paper with his daughters phone number on it, but before he got too far into trying to convince me, I told him that I had a girlfriend. I felt a little bad but I also wasn't sure what the appropriate response was. I said I appreciated it, because I did. I like the guy himself and had nothing against it, but also am unsure how I would have reacted if I was single, since it was frankly a bit bizarre. (Thoughts on this super welcome.)

Are you sure was his dad and not his pimp?
asking what you do for fun, mentioned a street and then want to give girl number sounds like a pimp which is comun on casinos.

Like, what he expect you do, take the number call the girl and say your dad hook both up?, lol

You mention play with him before, so maybe "daugther" go with him before and see you, maybe mention she like you or something, who knows.
Probably should let him explain more.

Anyway, rejecting paper sounds kind of rude to me, could take it, thank him and mention the gf, it no mean need to call, but was more polite.

But wth i know:)
 
Figaroo2

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Ha ha you should be flattered. this guy clearly likes you , especially if he took the time to rail you previously. You never know the daughter maybe some insanely hot supermodel type who has trouble meeting guys.
Get the guys name and do a little open source research, its not difficult to ID people through social media these days. Still if you're happy with your current gf there was nothing wrong with your polite declination. If you had taken it it would have got his hopes up. Next time just ask him how his daughter is he would probably welcome the opportunity to talk about her and then you'd know if he was genuine .
Your losing 2k in a session sounds tough and you appear to have handled it well. I don't feel so bad about my own 4 bi loss this month.
 
Mr Sandbag

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I still say the girl must be wild. What guy wants to match his daughter up with a dude he always sees at the casino? She must be nuts.

And tbf, I'm not sure she would really appreciate her dad handing her number out to guys she's never met before. I don't think I've ever met anyone that would be okay with that.
 
xdeucesx

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Ask for pics of daughter ldo. If she's hot, proceed.
 
Matt Vaughan

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I think you guys are narrowing the range too far here. There's definitely some bluffs occasionally (he's yanking my chain, the daughter is pure crazy, or the daughter is a dude), though at the time my read was that he had the nuts (was genuine and the chick wasn't completely insane or anything). I also don't think it was completely polarized necessarily - he could definitely be merging his range here (daughter exists, but isn't attractive or desirable).
 
Y

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I'm new here but I'm loving this thread. The story about the daughter is amazing! and all the poker scenarios are awesome, keep it up for sure! My question is, if you are having shit hands over and over and over, why not take a walk and come back?
 
Mr Sandbag

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I'm new here but I'm loving this thread. The story about the daughter is amazing! and all the poker scenarios are awesome, keep it up for sure! My question is, if you are having shit hands over and over and over, why not take a walk and come back?

Cuz it won't change anything, and volume is what matters. If you're at a good table, you want to be dealt in to as many hands as possible.
 
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