Live Grind: How to Fall Asleep at the Table (Without Getting Caught)
Jillychemung
Stacks & Stacks
Loyaler
Do NOT call it rake!! Try to remove this word, rake, from your usage in your home game. Call it a seat rental fee or an amenities fee or some such. Do NOT base it on game play, ie per hand or per orbit etc., only base it on actual attendance or based on time, ie $2/hour.
The guy that runs our local game has been doing it for almost 10 years. He has it set up as a card club and all of the fees are for seat rental, either per hour for cash games or per tournament. The game has been raided twice, both times they were looking for leverage against bigger fish they thought had an interest in the game (which they never did). The club manager each time ended up with a misdemeanor facilitating charge that he plead guilty to and paid the small fine <$500.
xdeucesx
Bar Master
Silver Level
In most home games I've been at who want to get around "rake" but still want to charge will do an entrance fee. Something like 10$ fee at the door to cover food/drinks/table etc. Think of it as a "cover charge". I've seen lots of guys willing to pay a cover charge but not willing to pay rake.
S
Smoola
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Do you prefer the live poker over the online poker now that you have the home game?
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Fwiw guys, I wasn't even thinking about it that much, except that people brought it up AT the game. I don't think people will care if I call it time-rake vs seat rental lol... These people aren't complete idiots - they know what it is.
But I think psychologically there'd be more resentment to having to pull a few bucks or chips out every hour and "handing it over" than raking max $1 per pot?? Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong though.
Not sure how raking is in "bad taste" though? Like, I provide some snacks, sodas, I organize and host the game, clean up after everyone, etc. It's more of a commitment than you might think. And only several people try to chip in or tip me for hosting. It seems unfair that they "pay" for everyone else, no? Granted some people will always tip more than others, but I think the difference between like $0 and $30 is pretty huge from person to person. Time-rake or pot-rake eliminate these differences for the most part.
As to whether I prefer live or online, I've basically always preferred live poker - nothing to do with home games. But it's def nice to have some games more in my area than the casino, which is an hour drive away.
But I think psychologically there'd be more resentment to having to pull a few bucks or chips out every hour and "handing it over" than raking max $1 per pot?? Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong though.
Not sure how raking is in "bad taste" though? Like, I provide some snacks, sodas, I organize and host the game, clean up after everyone, etc. It's more of a commitment than you might think. And only several people try to chip in or tip me for hosting. It seems unfair that they "pay" for everyone else, no? Granted some people will always tip more than others, but I think the difference between like $0 and $30 is pretty huge from person to person. Time-rake or pot-rake eliminate these differences for the most part.
As to whether I prefer live or online, I've basically always preferred live poker - nothing to do with home games. But it's def nice to have some games more in my area than the casino, which is an hour drive away.
Mr Sandbag
Legend
Silver Level
I meant in a sense that if guests start wondering if you are profiting off running the games. I wasn't sure if you were providing anything like drinks or food, in which case they should expect some sort of rake.
All depends on "culture" too.
All depends on "culture" too.
xdeucesx
Bar Master
Silver Level
This^. That's what I meant, didn't realize you were providing food and what not. I think it's more than acceptable to charge if you're also providing those amenities .
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Thoughts on offering some types of small "promos" like high hand 'swell? Seems like fish love that sort of thing, but unsure if it's worth the overhead of keeping track of it etc.
Obv can't have a "bad beat" jackpot unless it's like a super low threshold like fullhouse loses or something like that.
Obv can't have a "bad beat" jackpot unless it's like a super low threshold like fullhouse loses or something like that.
Mr Sandbag
Legend
Silver Level
Sort of. For example, the general "expectation" among my family/friends is that the host should be able to take a cut to cover expenses but is expected to kinda "not have the guests cover all of it" I guess. But if someone is hosting a tournament, it's kind of expected that the winner tip the host. But then I've played at other house games where expectations were completely different. That's what I meant by "culture." It's difficult to judge what you should do because we don't really know any of that stuff.
As for the promo stuff, it depends highly on player input. BBJ would obviously span tons of sessions, so you'd need a really stable player pool that wouldn't mind contributing that money. High hand might be fun and easy to do since all the money would be paid out that same night. I've also heard of people doing freerolls, but again that would require a pretty consistent player pool.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Ah, ok. I guess I understand what you mean. But there are a wide variety of players I'm drawing on right now. Only a few tip, and so far the vast majority of tip amount has come from players who had relatively big winning nights. (Example: One player won like 4 BI in my last game and tipped me 30bb at the end of the night. He was the only one to tip of the 10 players who came though.) Like I had to ask people to chip in for the pizza I bought this time around, cause I'm sorry but I'm not gonna keep spending $50+/game every time this thing runs. I enjoy it but it's not worth it to me if I'm actively losing money on it.
For promos, I definitely don't have enough of a solidified base to run freerolls (or BBJ) yet, and that would just be a lot more work for me. And since I'm unsure how excited people would be about a freeroll only paying out a couple hundred, I don't think I'd bother with that. I could definitely do high hand, would just have to figure out how I want to do it so that it hits reasonably often (if it's a fixed type of thing) and how much it should be worth (if it's on a per-game basis).
For promos, I definitely don't have enough of a solidified base to run freerolls (or BBJ) yet, and that would just be a lot more work for me. And since I'm unsure how excited people would be about a freeroll only paying out a couple hundred, I don't think I'd bother with that. I could definitely do high hand, would just have to figure out how I want to do it so that it hits reasonably often (if it's a fixed type of thing) and how much it should be worth (if it's on a per-game basis).
xdeucesx
Bar Master
Silver Level
Don't do promos imo. You're getting borderline on what would be considered legal the more you start running promos, rake, etc. (DOn't know WI law but assuming it's like most states). I think entrance fee is probably the best move, like a rake, but not called "rake" 
completely understandable though about now wanting to drop all the $$$ on amenities and not have anyone else help pitch in, it's annoying and a problem I dealt with for years.
completely understandable though about now wanting to drop all the $$$ on amenities and not have anyone else help pitch in, it's annoying and a problem I dealt with for years.
Mr Sandbag
Legend
Silver Level
Yeah agreed. Def not worth it if it's gonna cost you $50+ every time.
I also agree about the entrance fee over rake. People are more comfortable knowing exactly how much they are paying and you wouldn't have to worry about doing it all in-game.
I also agree about the entrance fee over rake. People are more comfortable knowing exactly how much they are paying and you wouldn't have to worry about doing it all in-game.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Hmm, didn't really think about just a door fee, will def consider that strongly. The only problem there is that it discourages anyone from playing for just a couple hours, or coming in later in the day/night. But it does seem to have fewer problems than the other options.
As for the legality deuces, I'm not exactly worried about it when I don't have any drugs or other illegal activities going on in connection with it. Like, unless the game is massive, there's just no reason for police to bother with it even if they heard about it.
As for the legality deuces, I'm not exactly worried about it when I don't have any drugs or other illegal activities going on in connection with it. Like, unless the game is massive, there's just no reason for police to bother with it even if they heard about it.
xdeucesx
Bar Master
Silver Level
duggs
Killing me softly
Silver Level
your fault for the misleading title imo
xdeucesx
Bar Master
Silver Level
loafes
Legend
Silver Level
It's very hard to fall asleep at the live table without giving it away. But if you play a very nit style prior to falling asleep then it will be less obvious when you do. You should also wear a hoodie and sunglases plus headphones to increase your chances.
This is contrary to online where it is much easier to fall asleep and not get caught out. GL at the tables
This is contrary to online where it is much easier to fall asleep and not get caught out. GL at the tables
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Hey bluff, thanks for the bump. Been super busy with work, spending time with gf, and playing poker, so it's hard to find time to write or keep up with CC.
Had some very swingy sessions as of late. Two and a half week's ago my buddy ran a home game. It was straight NL, and started 7 handed. I was doing well after a bumpy first hour, and by the time we got down to 3 handed, I was up about $300 at 1/1. Got down to HU and got into a sick hand:
BTN limped, I made it $5 with AhQs and he called.
Flop KJTshd
I led for $15 because he didn't have any concept of pot size, and would make weird plays with a super wide range. This time he made it $30 to go, and I pretty quickly made it $70 total. He called with about $190 behind.
Turn 5s
I thought for a while and shoved. He thought forever, and asked "you have a straight already??" Eventually he called and turned over K3ss.
My friend Mike, who was hosting and now dealing, paused for a second. I knew he was waiting to see if I would ask about running it more than once, but I didn't think my opponent would even know what that was or care.
The last card fell... As.
I was roughly an 80% favorite to end the night up 6 BI, but instead I closed it out with only 60bb in profit. Not exactly "bad," but still pretty disheartening. The only good news is that he has agreed to come to my games in the future. I'm literally drooling thinking about it.
The swings continued as a week and a half ago I dropped 1k at Friday's private game live, and then an all-time biggest losing session of -1.9k the following week in the same game. After that Friday, I played live at the casino Saturday evening and made $850 back.
Sunday I played the BDPO on Bovada with a $162 entry $200k gtd tournament. I obviously made a pretty deep run, but couldn't hold vs. a super maniac when he jammed JTo vs my A6o BvB. I went 49th out of 1,600, cashing for a measly $565, with a "no big deal" first prize of $40k up top. A tough beat to take, to say the least. I know it's standard, but it's frustrating to keep getting close to legitimately good scores only to get thrown on my ass again.
Then Monday was one of the most stressful work days of my life - it's been a pretty tough few weeks, and it's hard to look for light at the end of the tunnel.
Looking into the future, I'm tentatively planning to get out to vegas for the series again this year. When will depend on a number of factors: friends going, what CC promos might happen, etc. But I'm not sure how rolled I'll really be for big tourneys, so we'll have to see what I want to do when the time comes.
There's a 1.1k 200k gtd in Milwaukee 4/11 that I'm probably going to play. I'm going this weekend to try to satellite in, but I'm likely going to play it regardless. The structure is the same as the MSPT main that ran here in Madison a few weeks ago, and that tourney was insaaaaaane. Had I not been coolered right and left, I would have had a really good chance at running deep, I think. Soft field, big, and tons of people sattying in.
Besides, I need a second chance - people love an underdog, right?
Had some very swingy sessions as of late. Two and a half week's ago my buddy ran a home game. It was straight NL, and started 7 handed. I was doing well after a bumpy first hour, and by the time we got down to 3 handed, I was up about $300 at 1/1. Got down to HU and got into a sick hand:
BTN limped, I made it $5 with AhQs and he called.
Flop KJTshd
I led for $15 because he didn't have any concept of pot size, and would make weird plays with a super wide range. This time he made it $30 to go, and I pretty quickly made it $70 total. He called with about $190 behind.
Turn 5s
I thought for a while and shoved. He thought forever, and asked "you have a straight already??" Eventually he called and turned over K3ss.
My friend Mike, who was hosting and now dealing, paused for a second. I knew he was waiting to see if I would ask about running it more than once, but I didn't think my opponent would even know what that was or care.
The last card fell... As.
I was roughly an 80% favorite to end the night up 6 BI, but instead I closed it out with only 60bb in profit. Not exactly "bad," but still pretty disheartening. The only good news is that he has agreed to come to my games in the future. I'm literally drooling thinking about it.
The swings continued as a week and a half ago I dropped 1k at Friday's private game live, and then an all-time biggest losing session of -1.9k the following week in the same game. After that Friday, I played live at the casino Saturday evening and made $850 back.
Sunday I played the BDPO on Bovada with a $162 entry $200k gtd tournament. I obviously made a pretty deep run, but couldn't hold vs. a super maniac when he jammed JTo vs my A6o BvB. I went 49th out of 1,600, cashing for a measly $565, with a "no big deal" first prize of $40k up top. A tough beat to take, to say the least. I know it's standard, but it's frustrating to keep getting close to legitimately good scores only to get thrown on my ass again.
Then Monday was one of the most stressful work days of my life - it's been a pretty tough few weeks, and it's hard to look for light at the end of the tunnel.
Looking into the future, I'm tentatively planning to get out to vegas for the series again this year. When will depend on a number of factors: friends going, what CC promos might happen, etc. But I'm not sure how rolled I'll really be for big tourneys, so we'll have to see what I want to do when the time comes.
There's a 1.1k 200k gtd in Milwaukee 4/11 that I'm probably going to play. I'm going this weekend to try to satellite in, but I'm likely going to play it regardless. The structure is the same as the MSPT main that ran here in Madison a few weeks ago, and that tourney was insaaaaaane. Had I not been coolered right and left, I would have had a really good chance at running deep, I think. Soft field, big, and tons of people sattying in.
Besides, I need a second chance - people love an underdog, right?