Let's talk about tipping the dealers in cash games...

[scubed]

Using shuffle machine seems like they can deal 25-30 hands an hour, at $1 tip each hand they are bringing in 30 bucks an hr just in tips and get more than a dollar sometimes. Add on min wage they aren't doing bad for dealing cards imo. Anyone know if this is typical for dealers or am I off

I had a discussion with a floor man at Harrah's Las Vegas about this very thing. He indicated that the dealers are "happy when they make $1 tip per each hand" on average. In addition we went on to discuss that the average hands dealt per hour were around 22-28, with the "good dealers" on the higher end. With what I learned in that conversation I'd say your assert is spot on in terms of hourly tip rate IF they receive a $1 tip per hand.

 

[This Fish Chums]

Yes, I tip in live cash games. And have a few points to make.

• I don't tip because the dealer may be going home poor at the end of the day. I tip because it is customary to do so, just like tipping waitstaff or bartenders. Not tipping is cheap, stingy, greedy and flat out low class. layingba
• When you don't tip the other players at the table notice. And trust me, they think of you as all of the above. If you're someone who cries when the table "picks on you" one way or another, chalk it up to people flat out not liking or respecting you. Which you probably don't care about anyway. :damnmate:
• Dealing poker is not unskilled labor. You obviously have never been designated dealer at even a home game. Your comments make me wonder if you don't have a low paying, unskilled labor job yourself and are just bitter because you don't get tipped.
• You talk about online rakes vs. casino rakes, but obviously lack the intelligence to put thought into it. Online poker has virtually no overhead. Yeah they have to pay for servers to run the software, bot those servers (even high end ones) cost in the thousands of dollars per month range. Consider that for a moment and consider how much of a rake they take. I would estimate upwards of 95% of their rake is pure profit. Casinos have to pay dealers, security, the lease on their building, etc. they're also often having to dump a large % of their profits back into their local community. I know our local casino only gets to keep 60% of their profits. In the end, online poker is just flat out incredibly cheap to run and so the rake they're taking from you is way more greed based. cguru:
• You talked about it being "hard enough" to crush 1/2 live games. Ever think you're just a poor player who shouldn't be playing 1/2 games period? Let's say you buy in for $100. 1/2 pots easily hit hundreds of dollars for a single hand. If you're having trouble taking down one decent pot per session then go find yourself another hobby. Then again, maybe everyone at the table has just decided not to give you action because you are so stingy. :dontknow:
• But why do I tip dealers? Because they provide me services I could not provide myself. First, I cannot setup a home game because that is illegal in my state. Second, even if I could set up a home game, I don't personally know 8 other people who play poker at high enough stakes to play 1/2 games. Third, I couldn't afford to pay them, manage their taxes, benefits, etc. All the things that go into having someone working for you. So yes, I tip and I tip generously because I appreciate what the dealer and casino are doing for me. :shakehand

I hope that sheds some light on the subject. And for trying to belittle those of us who do tip, enjoy. :thefinger

 

[1dkp0k3r]

Yes, I tip in live cash games. And have a few points to make.

• I don't tip because the dealer may be going home poor at the end of the day. I tip because it is customary to do so, just like tipping waitstaff or bartenders. Not tipping is cheap, stingy, greedy and flat out low class. layingba
• When you don't tip the other players at the table notice. And trust me, they think of you as all of the above. If you're someone who cries when the table "picks on you" one way or another, chalk it up to people flat out not liking or respecting you. Which you probably don't care about anyway. :damnmate:
• Dealing poker is not unskilled labor. You obviously have never been designated dealer at even a home game. Your comments make me wonder if you don't have a low paying, unskilled labor job yourself and are just bitter because you don't get tipped.
• You talk about online rakes vs. casino rakes, but obviously lack the intelligence to put thought into it. Online poker has virtually no overhead. Yeah they have to pay for servers to run the software, bot those servers (even high end ones) cost in the thousands of dollars per month range. Consider that for a moment and consider how much of a rake they take. I would estimate upwards of 95% of their rake is pure profit. Casinos have to pay dealers, security, the lease on their building, etc. they're also often having to dump a large % of their profits back into their local community. I know our local casino only gets to keep 60% of their profits. In the end, online poker is just flat out incredibly cheap to run and so the rake they're taking from you is way more greed based. cguru:
• You talked about it being "hard enough" to crush 1/2 live games. Ever think you're just a poor player who shouldn't be playing 1/2 games period? Let's say you buy in for $100. 1/2 pots easily hit hundreds of dollars for a single hand. If you're having trouble taking down one decent pot per session then go find yourself another hobby. Then again, maybe everyone at the table has just decided not to give you action because you are so stingy. :dontknow:
• But why do I tip dealers? Because they provide me services I could not provide myself. First, I cannot setup a home game because that is illegal in my state. Second, even if I could set up a home game, I don't personally know 8 other people who play poker at high enough stakes to play 1/2 games. Third, I couldn't afford to pay them, manage their taxes, benefits, etc. All the things that go into having someone working for you. So yes, I tip and I tip generously because I appreciate what the dealer and casino are doing for me. :shakehand

I hope that sheds some light on the subject. And for trying to belittle those of us who do tip, enjoy. :thefinger

Give this man a round of applause. Well said sir

 

[Smokewood]

Yes, I tip in live cash games. And have a few points to make.

• I don't tip because the dealer may be going home poor at the end of the day. I tip because it is customary to do so, just like tipping waitstaff or bartenders. Not tipping is cheap, stingy, greedy and flat out low class. layingba
• When you don't tip the other players at the table notice. And trust me, they think of you as all of the above. If you're someone who cries when the table "picks on you" one way or another, chalk it up to people flat out not liking or respecting you. Which you probably don't care about anyway. :damnmate:
• Dealing poker is not unskilled labor. You obviously have never been designated dealer at even a home game. Your comments make me wonder if you don't have a low paying, unskilled labor job yourself and are just bitter because you don't get tipped.
• You talk about online rakes vs. casino rakes, but obviously lack the intelligence to put thought into it. Online poker has virtually no overhead. Yeah they have to pay for servers to run the software, bot those servers (even high end ones) cost in the thousands of dollars per month range. Consider that for a moment and consider how much of a rake they take. I would estimate upwards of 95% of their rake is pure profit. Casinos have to pay dealers, security, the lease on their building, etc. they're also often having to dump a large % of their profits back into their local community. I know our local casino only gets to keep 60% of their profits. In the end, online poker is just flat out incredibly cheap to run and so the rake they're taking from you is way more greed based. cguru:
• You talked about it being "hard enough" to crush 1/2 live games. Ever think you're just a poor player who shouldn't be playing 1/2 games period? Let's say you buy in for $100. 1/2 pots easily hit hundreds of dollars for a single hand. If you're having trouble taking down one decent pot per session then go find yourself another hobby. Then again, maybe everyone at the table has just decided not to give you action because you are so stingy. :dontknow:
• But why do I tip dealers? Because they provide me services I could not provide myself. First, I cannot setup a home game because that is illegal in my state. Second, even if I could set up a home game, I don't personally know 8 other people who play poker at high enough stakes to play 1/2 games. Third, I couldn't afford to pay them, manage their taxes, benefits, etc. All the things that go into having someone working for you. So yes, I tip and I tip generously because I appreciate what the dealer and casino are doing for me. :shakehand

I hope that sheds some light on the subject. And for trying to belittle those of us who do tip, enjoy. :thefinger

Wow, so much hate.

You should focus this energy towards the dealers' employers. It's the casinos that are shorting these guys, not me and others who think tipping is unjustified.

You guys are the angry ones, i just made a simple point and you guys are freaking out and calling me names... way to represent the poker community.

BTW I'm a software analyst and I make plenty of money at my job. I choose not to tip because the casinos that employees these people are banking and should pay their employees a livable wage without sucking more money out of the customers / players.

You do know that Vegas dealers are planning a strike, right? Do you think they are doing this during the wsop because they want the players to pay more? They are fed up with it too but as long as the players keep tipping the casino will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Why don't you help do something about it? I am... I don't tip!

 

[This Fish Chums]

Why don't you help do something about it? I am... I don't tip!

So, you're solution to the problem is to not tip, it's to not support the dealers. this is a complete cop-out response. Your solution to dealers not making enough is to make them earn less. BS. You don't care about the dealers. If you did, your solution would be to not reward the casino's. Your solution would be to never give business to the casino's until they righted this wrong. Your solution would be to get other people to blacklist the casino until they remedied the problem.


But that's not your problem. You don't have a problem with the casino's, you have a problem with the dealers. Hence, you give the casino's their money, but not the dealers.

And BTW. You didn't give counter-arguments to anything I said. Does that mean you agree with me?

P.S. I do hate non-tippers. :reddy:

 

[pokijh]

I never tip because it minimizes the chances of me making a profit. However, if I am on a good streak I usually tip a little bit.

 

[Smokewood]

So, you're solution to the problem is to not tip, it's to not support the dealers. this is a complete cop-out response. Your solution to dealers not making enough is to make them earn less. BS. You don't care about the dealers. If you did, your solution would be to not reward the casino's. Your solution would be to never give business to the casino's until they righted this wrong. Your solution would be to get other people to blacklist the casino until they remedied the problem.


But that's not your problem. You don't have a problem with the casino's, you have a problem with the dealers. Hence, you give the casino's their money, but not the dealers.

And BTW. You didn't give counter-arguments to anything I said. Does that mean you agree with me?

P.S. I do hate non-tippers. :reddy:

You didn't make any valid points to counter.
You are acting under a false premise that the players should supplement the salaries of dealers. I don't agree with this.

 

[mtl mile end]

You are acting under a false premise that the players should supplement the salaries of dealers. I don't agree with this.

When people enter into public places like businesses, they are interacting with other members of society in an understood "social contract". I walk into a store and if I want to buy an item, I pay the price marked on the item (plus taxes, usually) the merchant accepts my payment, and we are both satisfied. In other cultures and some situations in North American culture, there may be haggling or bargaining involved. When one goes to a bar or restaurant in NA, there is usually an accepted practice of tipping. The reasons for this can be debated, but the accepted practice is there and tacitly agreed to by Society. It simply is. "Everyone" knows that this is how it works. In many cases, Government regulated minimum wage standards (and income tax standards) take into account that there will be tipping. "Everyone" knows this, and acts accordingly.

When someone tries to break this tacit agreement, they may be treated as criminals - "I don't have to pay money for anything because I do not recognize the Government's right to exist nor to govern me. I do not recognize the value of currency, etc". When someone breaks the tipping standards in NA (and elsewhere) they are not arrested, they are merely thought of as dinks.

Congratulations, you have found a way to selfishly retain small amounts of money from hard working people under the guise of "sticking it to the Man". Theoretically these skilled workers are already being taxed on this income that they have earned, but that they are not receiving from you. This is the subtly sociopathic behaviour that is taking over the world right now. "Thinking outside the box" is often gaming the system so that "I win!".

You say that you can afford to tip, but you choose not to. Then you choose to brag about it. The dealers that you aren't tipping don't have the ability to not deal to you, and they probably have the good sense not to tell you what they think of you. Again, congratulations.

 

[Smokewood]

When people enter into public places like businesses, they are interacting with other members of society in an understood "social contract". I walk into a store and if I want to buy an item, I pay the price marked on the item (plus taxes, usually) the merchant accepts my payment, and we are both satisfied. In other cultures and some situations in North American culture, there may be haggling or bargaining involved. When one goes to a bar or restaurant in NA, there is usually an accepted practice of tipping. The reasons for this can be debated, but the accepted practice is there and tacitly agreed to by Society. It simply is. "Everyone" knows that this is how it works. In many cases, Government regulated minimum wage standards (and income tax standards) take into account that there will be tipping. "Everyone" knows this, and acts accordingly.

When someone tries to break this tacit agreement, they may be treated as criminals - "I don't have to pay money for anything because I do not recognize the Government's right to exist nor to govern me. I do not recognize the value of currency, etc". When someone breaks the tipping standards in NA (and elsewhere) they are not arrested, they are merely thought of as dinks.

Congratulations, you have found a way to selfishly retain small amounts of money from hard working people under the guise of "sticking it to the Man". Theoretically these skilled workers are already being taxed on this income that they have earned, but that they are not receiving from you. This is the subtly sociopathic behaviour that is taking over the world right now. "Thinking outside the box" is often gaming the system so that "I win!".

You say that you can afford to tip, but you choose not to. Then you choose to brag about it. The dealers that you aren't tipping don't have the ability to not deal to you, and they probably have the good sense not to tell you what they think of you. Again, congratulations.

A lot of words that say exactly what I said. Their boss needs to pay them more or they need to find a new job.

Question, Why do you think dealers are entitled to a tip. Why is it okay to try and steal my money to give it to them?

Thanks

 

[darthdimsky]

A lot of words that say exactly what I said. Their boss needs to pay them more or they need to find a new job.

Question, Why do you think dealers are entitled to a tip. Why is it okay to try and steal my money to give it to them?

Thanks

Boss needs to pay them more:

Wouldn't that lead to a necessary increase in rake? Leading to lesser customers and lower revenues? How should casinos stay supplement dealer incomes?

They need to find a new job:
Most folks go to casinos for the personal interaction. Why do you go? You can plop at home and play online enjoying a few can of beer. Why deal with pesky human interaction?

 

[Smokewood]

Boss needs to pay them more:

Wouldn't that lead to a necessary increase in rake? Leading to lesser customers and lower revenues? How should casinos stay supplement dealer incomes?

They need to find a new job:
Most folks go to casinos for the personal interaction. Why do you go? You can plop at home and play online enjoying a few can of beer. Why deal with pesky human interaction?

LOL I like people, and I like dealers... just don't ask me to supplement their income.

 

[kratos]

There are some special dealers who deserve lots of tips.A friend of mine gave 50$ to the dealer in a pot with 700$.On this special day my friend Orlando received three pocket aces from the same dealer;he was inspired that evening.

 

[bruno13xs]

not call the tip but if you win sponsorship want half

 

[darthdimsky]

LOL I like people, and I like dealers... just don't ask me to supplement their income.

If not for the regular customer then who supplements their income? Looks like they clearly can't sustain themselves without tips. So what's the solution?

What's worse in this instance is that unlike other service industries, where everyone is expected to tip regardless, no one would frown on you for not tipping if you've had a losing session despite any excellent service you may have received.

 

[nittany182]

Playing $1/3. When I win the pot I'll slide a $1 chip with my cards, unless it is a walk or a chop then nothing. And after I resituate myself, restack my chips, I'll throw another $1 for each full stack over my initial. IE, yeah, I sound cheap, but i tip $1 for each $100 I bring in.

 

[playinggameswithu]

I was friend with a dealer at the council bluffs jack binions and he told me the tipping is just scam insult to injury at the 1/2. I mean the rack is too high to play at 10% because it is high frequency, revenue based percentage based rake. Along with the $1 bad beat jackpot tax and then the tip..it is just pure scam. I never tip as dealing is not that difficult a labor and I don't give away profit just that easy. I also am not covering the costs of some wicked casino that makes money doing nothing productive except scamming people with their negative EV games.

 

[Smokewood]

If not for the regular customer then who supplements their income? Looks like they clearly can't sustain themselves without tips. So what's the solution?

What's worse in this instance is that unlike other service industries, where everyone is expected to tip regardless, no one would frown on you for not tipping if you've had a losing session despite any excellent service you may have received.

Well, how about that giant casino they work for that has the edge in every single game they offer?
I already pay 10% rake... that's more than enough to pay the dealers a living wage that does not require tips.

 

[playinggameswithu]

Playing $1/3. When I win the pot I'll slide a $1 chip with my cards, unless it is a walk or a chop then nothing. And after I resituate myself, restack my chips, I'll throw another $1 for each full stack over my initial. IE, yeah, I sound cheap, but i tip $1 for each $100 I bring in.

Those are revenue pots not profit pots. You have to subtract the "loser hands" hands you are guaranteed to lose money in to see if you are profitable player or not.

 

[playinggameswithu]

Well, how about that giant casino they work for that has the edge in every single game they offer?
I already pay 10% rake... that's more than enough to pay the dealers a living wage that does not require tips.

Correct. Multi-billion dollar profitable casinos can easily afford it.

 

[nittany182]

Those are revenue pots not profit pots. You have to subtract the "loser hands" hands you are guaranteed to lose money in to see if you are profitable player or not.

Not arguing revenue vs profit and winning vs nonwinning player. Dealer dealt me a winner I tip. If I choose to get involved in nonwinning situations that's my fault for not leaving while I was up.

 

[notahead]

good dealers that keep game flowing and table clean are very nice thing and as such i tip better on bigger pots but always tip my good dealers that keep clean and quick flowing table more hands per hour equal higher roi my view slow dealers and ones that don't keep control of drunk idots at the table i tend to tip very little or not at all this is a personal thing i mean i have gone whole nights without tipping if in the hole bad but man some dealears if you go often enough and tip well tell you the tables to sit at who are good players at the table and who are the fish i mean this very valuable live info for table selections and they should be tipped well they help you make that money

 

[Blintzblyck]

No rake poker

Being a cheap ass, I never tip and I play live cash games. The casino I play in has no rake but a flat table fee. $15 to sit down and it's good til you wanna cash out. Tipping is discretionary.:flute:

 

[SeriousBizzness]

it depends on how I feel and how the cards are rolling for me. but if a dealer gives me a the nuts on the flop and they stand ill always tip

 

[playinggameswithu]

Being a cheap ass, I never tip and I play live cash games. The casino I play in has no rake but a flat table fee. $15 to sit down and it's good til you wanna cash out. Tipping is discretionary.:flute:

Are you saying you can sit down for 9 hours for $15? Or $15 an hour? Or $15 fee then hourly fee or big blind fee. Where is this room?

 

[Blintzblyck]

Its a $15 flat fee. Not per HR. Obviously it is not a pure poker room. And I wont disclose the locale.