Evan Jarvis
Legend
Platinum Level
Thank you so much Amatola! I really appreciate that!!!
For anyone else who is interested in watching the reviews here is the full playlist (with more content being added ever week!!!) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBrNnyWekagPlge7r2Yh-dDlL2wHaZD8v
AndyGamesPoker
Rock Star
Silver Level
6-max vs 9 max
I had started my own post about this, but I wanted to ask this here because I value and respect your opinion and wanted your input...
They say that 9-max is a lower variance game than 6-max cash. I am not sure why but I personally experience far more variance at 9-max. Perhaps I have a bit of a looser playing style that goes better with 6-max ranges. Also, I feel like I am a player that relies on my opponents reads and I feel like they are easier to pay attention to with 5 other opponents compared to vs 8 others. Does anyone else feel this way? Or is this some kind of flawed logic? What are your opinions?
I had started my own post about this, but I wanted to ask this here because I value and respect your opinion and wanted your input...
They say that 9-max is a lower variance game than 6-max cash. I am not sure why but I personally experience far more variance at 9-max. Perhaps I have a bit of a looser playing style that goes better with 6-max ranges. Also, I feel like I am a player that relies on my opponents reads and I feel like they are easier to pay attention to with 5 other opponents compared to vs 8 others. Does anyone else feel this way? Or is this some kind of flawed logic? What are your opinions?
Evan Jarvis
Legend
Platinum Level
This is a great question Andy, thank you for asking
The reason that 9 max is considered lower variance is because in those first 3 seats (early position) you get to play tighter ranges and thus experience less volatility/variance than you typically would in 6 max.
In 6 max (and even more extremely in 4 max and heads up) where we are basically forced to play wider ranges there will be more variance. The equities of the ranges will be closer preflop and thus we will see bigger swings postflop or who makes the best hand and what not.
Also because playing wider ranges typically leads to making more bluffs and needing to make more hero calls we will experience more variance by playing bigger pots with typically weaker hands per say.
We have to defend the blinds with wider ranges vs looser opens (which happens more in shorthanded games) which leads to bigger swings. Also we will be in late position more often and thus we will be opening wider ranges. AND we will be in the blinds more frequently which is a pretty high variance seat.
All that being said... if you are playing looser ranges than you should in 9max or you are playing in super loose live games where yo see 4-5-6 players taking each flop that will be a lot of variance as well compared to games where most pots are heads up or 3 handed.
So it also kind of depends on how we define variance and volatility. But the reasons most people 'say' that 6max is higher variance than 9max is for the reasons mentioned above.
Hope that helps! And hope you keep yourself out of trouble by not playing looser than you should be in those full ring games!!!
Evan Jarvis
Legend
Platinum Level
One thing I wanted to add though, if you are game selecting well 6-max will be much more lucrative (profitable) than 9-max
This is because if you get 1 fun player on a shorthanded table you only have to 'share' their money with 4 other regs, whereas on a full ring you have to share than money with 7 other regs
and if it's 2 fun players the fish to reg ratio is even better.
I would rather be on a shorthanded table with 2 fun players than on a full ring table with 3 fun players, and it's more common you'll be able to find this in the short handed games.
That's just one of the many reasons that most cash game pros prefer to play shorhanded tables over full ring tables
This is because if you get 1 fun player on a shorthanded table you only have to 'share' their money with 4 other regs, whereas on a full ring you have to share than money with 7 other regs
and if it's 2 fun players the fish to reg ratio is even better.
I would rather be on a shorthanded table with 2 fun players than on a full ring table with 3 fun players, and it's more common you'll be able to find this in the short handed games.
That's just one of the many reasons that most cash game pros prefer to play shorhanded tables over full ring tables
S
Spankinboy
Rising Star
Bronze Level
In relation to variance, only one thing you for get to mentioned or touched. In 9max game vs 6max games a lot more cards are removed from the deck just by the shared amount of players of at the table.
X
Xijzdix
Rising Star
Bronze Level
river sizing/bluff vs value ratio
When you get to the river in a 3 bet pot and you are figuring out how many bluff combo's you can have versus value how exactly do you calculate this?
Would say that if you bet say 1/2 pot on the rver, you betting say 5 to win 10. if u bluffing half the time and get called and loose nd the other half of the time you get called and win you will break even.
Obviously there are other scenario's like you bluff but get herocalled by worse, or you bet for value and get raised. or get called by better.
Also x percentage of you bluffs will get through
Like what should I aim for. If for example I think villain will have to fold half of his range to this 1/2 pot bet. how do I approach this.
Will I start changing the betsizing and target him that way or will I start bluffing more, if I expect him to call with 50 percent of his range that is quite an interesting proposition.
But knowing that he will have to call half the time vs halfpot. Should I maybe not start betting a smaller size to gain the same result possibly and go 40 percent see how elastic or unelastic villain is.
Or start using a bigger betsize, get more folds and thus also getting to get a higher bluffratio. or never bluff and get called 80 percent of the time vs 30 percent.
How to quickly determine, what string to pull in order to exploit
Grtz
Mizzter_x in chat
When you get to the river in a 3 bet pot and you are figuring out how many bluff combo's you can have versus value how exactly do you calculate this?
Would say that if you bet say 1/2 pot on the rver, you betting say 5 to win 10. if u bluffing half the time and get called and loose nd the other half of the time you get called and win you will break even.
Obviously there are other scenario's like you bluff but get herocalled by worse, or you bet for value and get raised. or get called by better.
Also x percentage of you bluffs will get through
Like what should I aim for. If for example I think villain will have to fold half of his range to this 1/2 pot bet. how do I approach this.
Will I start changing the betsizing and target him that way or will I start bluffing more, if I expect him to call with 50 percent of his range that is quite an interesting proposition.
But knowing that he will have to call half the time vs halfpot. Should I maybe not start betting a smaller size to gain the same result possibly and go 40 percent see how elastic or unelastic villain is.
Or start using a bigger betsize, get more folds and thus also getting to get a higher bluffratio. or never bluff and get called 80 percent of the time vs 30 percent.
How to quickly determine, what string to pull in order to exploit
Grtz
Mizzter_x in chat
davidkimtai89
Rock Star
Bronze Level
Did you win a lot of money by playing cash game ? In this game is that must be required high skills ? This game is possibly winning much money but that is a short term , The risk is also innevitable , but winning is also big .
Evan Jarvis
Legend
Platinum Level
Hey mate,
Start with this playlist http://gripsed.com/win
If you'd like to dive deeper after that I have a 30 day training program you can pick up for free http://gripsed.com/pgms
I'm also making videos at pokercoaching reviewing all my cash game hands in quiz format.
It's a small investment but well worth it and is a fast path to learning how to play cash like me.
Here is a link to save 50% on your first month as well --> https://pokercoaching.com/coupons/freecoaching/ref/gripsed
Hope that helps mate, see you behind the big stacks soon!
Evan Jarvis
Legend
Platinum Level
I invested the first 6 years of my career playing cash games almost exclusively.
I believe it is a much better way to make money playing poker and develop your skillset.
There is so much more you can control in cash games. Less of a luck factor.
And you can really build out a strong hourly rate and almost treat it like a normal job in terms of expectation.
Cash games teach you to play deep stacked and to be comfortable getting all in at a decent frequency (which is important for mtts as well). It teaches you to be a well rounded player.
Once you sharpen your skills in cash then you will have a big advantage over tournament players who lack the foundation that comes with cash games.
I cannot recommend playing cash games highly enough, when I moved from tournaments to cash games was when I really become a professional and started making real money playing poker. And yes, it's harder to learn, but that's what makes it pay off in the long run!
Evan Jarvis
Legend
Platinum Level
Hi,
if I'm being completely honest I don't think about having a perfectly balanced range on the river, I don't count out the combos and try to make it perfect. In theory this sounds super useful and cool but in practice it's really hard to do.
I just ask myself 'do I want a call here or a fold here' based on my hand
and then i ask 'what sizing will accomplish this goal'
and then I go with that sizing and hope it works out.
Most of your opponents will not be thinking about the frequency they need to be calling at to be making a profit based on the size you bet. They will not be thinking about defending x % of their range.
They will be thinking whether or not their specific hand can justify calling the price, and the cheaper you make it the more often they will call.
I try to keep it simple in that regard and just go with my intuition.
Don't get too caught up in the combos, focus on hand reading and trying to pick a size that will get them to choose the action you want (call or fold). Once you have a profile of the opponent, whether they like to hero call or hero fold (which their stats will help you with, loose guys usually like to call down and nits usually like to fold) and take it from there.
The more you practice the easier it will be! :joyman:
Evan Jarvis
Legend
Platinum Level
Usually you will pay an FX fee yes
So it's best to set your account in either the currency you will play for or the currency you will cash out to.
I set up a USD bank (even though i'm in canada) so that I can avoid the FX fee but only playing, depositing, and withdrawing in USD.
If yo are planning on playing seriously then I recommend this. If you are just playing now and then for fun though then it's not a big deal to be paying some small FX fees.
If you are playing good poker games anyway yo will easily make back those fees anyway
AndyGamesPoker
Rock Star
Silver Level
One thing I wanted to add though, if you are game selecting well 6-max will be much more lucrative (profitable) than 9-max
This is because if you get 1 fun player on a shorthanded table you only have to 'share' their money with 4 other regs, whereas on a full ring you have to share than money with 7 other regs
and if it's 2 fun players the fish to reg ratio is even better.
I would rather be on a shorthanded table with 2 fun players than on a full ring table with 3 fun players, and it's more common you'll be able to find this in the short handed games.
That's just one of the many reasons that most cash game pros prefer to play shorhanded tables over full ring tables
Thanks for your reply Evan, that is very helpful information.
H
hiker5878
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Which Micro Stake to play? Frustrated.
Good morning Mr. Gripsed!
I am a big fan of your video's and have been watching you and a couple others for the past year. Only been playing for around 2 years, but have invested a lot of time in trying to educate myself to move up in stakes. No, I can't say I have beat ANY stakes yet but have a question for you just the same.
Play mostly .05/10 6 max on Betonline. I try and play below 20% of hands dealt, play straight up, nothing fancy, just ABC poker but how do I defend against players that call absolutely everything you bet at?
I really don't want to jump up to .25 or .50 because I don't think I am ready but my win rate is so much better at these higher stakes??!! Plus when I do play for several hours I sometime walk away with a couple hundred dollar profit, unlike the smaller micro's? Players seem to play more straight up if that makes sense at these higher micros.
Is there any good logic in this do you think?? Thanks, Kevin
Good morning Mr. Gripsed!
I am a big fan of your video's and have been watching you and a couple others for the past year. Only been playing for around 2 years, but have invested a lot of time in trying to educate myself to move up in stakes. No, I can't say I have beat ANY stakes yet but have a question for you just the same.
Play mostly .05/10 6 max on Betonline. I try and play below 20% of hands dealt, play straight up, nothing fancy, just ABC poker but how do I defend against players that call absolutely everything you bet at?
I really don't want to jump up to .25 or .50 because I don't think I am ready but my win rate is so much better at these higher stakes??!! Plus when I do play for several hours I sometime walk away with a couple hundred dollar profit, unlike the smaller micro's? Players seem to play more straight up if that makes sense at these higher micros.
Is there any good logic in this do you think?? Thanks, Kevin
Evan Jarvis
Legend
Platinum Level
If you are achieving a higher win rate at the higher levels... then you should probably just play at the higher levels. (within reason of course)
There is no need to 'beat all the levels' as some players seem to think there is.
When i moved to cash from SNG I started at 0.5/1NL. I had some experience at .25/.50nl as well, but other than for bankroll challenges I never played below that.
Why?
Couple of reasons, the first is that I wasn't stimulated playing the smallest levels, I felt bored and somewhat disengaged and therefore was wasting my time somewhat.
Another reason was that the rake is biggest in the smallest stakes and that makes it harder to be succesful at them, all other things being equal.
There's something to be said about playing at levels where people value the money (even somewhat) because you can play more effective straight up poker as you said, you can bluff more effectively, hand read more easily, and just assess the situations more.
Now... all that being said... when it comes to microstakes where people play too loose
The adjustment is.... TO BET BIGGER
If they are going to play too many hands preflop, charge them 8x 12x 20x the big blind to see a flop.
If they are going to call with draws for the wrong price POT BET, 1.5x POT, OVERBET SHOVE, bet the amounts that push them the most for making these speculative plays.
There is no need for you to play a bunch more hands. You can stick with the fundamentals you are following: position, aggression, selection, TRIPLE THREAT BABY
Just amp it up with the sizing to increase the magnitude of their mistakes. And against many players who wont fold... well.. just never bluff, and be patient.
Here are a couple of videos on a similar topic that will help (a lot of this stuff will carry over to the micro and small stakes online games.
Good luck and Happy stackin my friend!
carmenzu
Legend
Loyaler
Today I started playing cash, specifically NL5, I have been building my bankroll and it is time to grow, undoubtedly there is a lot of money in this modality, and it is very dynamic, I will continue playing the freerolls and the occasional tournament (buy-in).
The situation in Venezuela with the electricity and internet drops also influences my decision, sometimes I am in a tournament for 3 hours and a power outage arrives without prior notice, if I have paid buy in I am totally frustrated. In cash I will only lose the bet I have in the pot.
I am reading a lot to adapt to this change.
The situation in Venezuela with the electricity and internet drops also influences my decision, sometimes I am in a tournament for 3 hours and a power outage arrives without prior notice, if I have paid buy in I am totally frustrated. In cash I will only lose the bet I have in the pot.
I am reading a lot to adapt to this change.
Evan Jarvis
Legend
Platinum Level
Hi Livy!
It took me about 6 months to become a competent player
I was able to achieve this rather quickly because of a few things
1) I have a background in strategy games and cards, so my mind naturally works in this way
2) I read books and went thru structured videos so that I built my game the right way
3) I was very strict with my game selection and bankroll management (after losing 2 deposits) so I made sure I was always playing in games that I could comfortably beat
There is no way I could have been winning in tough games and big limits that quickly, but by taking this approach I was able to win steadily, build confidence in my abilities, and slowly but steadily continue to develop to become a better and better player
If you'd like some foundational material to start with this is a great playlist http://gripsed.com/win
and the 30 day course in the learning poker section from cardschat is really great as well!
Patience, focusing on understanding the game, and taking your time, not being in a rush, and thus not getting too caught up in the 'gambling' side of things are keys to the process
Hope that helps!
Evan Jarvis
Legend
Platinum Level
Hey Carmenzu,
I can understand this challenge. I know very much the importance of having strong internet. So much so that when we were playing MTTs we had 2 internet connections to the hose and paid 2 internet bills just so we had a backup.
If the internet drops constantly though and can be out for extended periods then focusing on cash games makes more sense. The risk of not being able to get back into a game when you are making a deep run and the value of your stack is so much I think is too great a risk.
You can make a lot of money playing cash games as you said and you'll never have a devastating disconnect like this which would be very costly.
T
Testy_Calls
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Hi Evan, I've got a question about heads up. I have been playing 9/6 max for a number of years and have just decided to move over to heads up. I did play some before when I was part of a training site (which I won't name) but their policy in the early days was basically to bumhunt until you were more competent. It was a successful strategy for what it was but I want to get good. Do you think it makes sense to play the "decent" regs at micro stakes 0.01/0.02, 0.02/0.05 which sacrifices winning money but should improve ability or do you think the bumhunt approach makes more sense?
Also do you have much experience with heads up? If so, how do you compare a decent micro stakes reg to the general player pool in pokerstars' 0.25/0.50 zoom heads up. To be a reg in that game is basically my target for now.