Are there tournaments that cannot be won?

[ZenonBR]

Will a player who makes the best moves in a tournament, playing brilliantly, cash or win the tournament by making the best choices?

Or if the deck doesn't help no matter how well you play that tournament, it simply can't be won.

What's your opinion?

 

[pentazepam]

One tournament is of course up to luck almost entirely.

If you don't get the cards or draw out you won't win.

Just look at some of the amateur winners in wsop who have defeated a lot of pros in just one tournament.

 

[ZenonBR]

One tournament is of course up to luck almost entirely.

If you don't get the cards or draw out you won't win.

Just look at some of the amateur winners in WSOP who have defeated a lot of pros in just one tournament.

So do you believe that there are tournaments that no matter how well you play, if the deck doesn't help you can't win, is that it?

 

[SpanRmonka]

This applies to almost all poker tournaments.

Even when you get your money in 80/20 in your favour. Every single hand you play, yo are relying on massive amount of luck. Only over the long run will you playing better than your opponents result in you winning over all.

The idea of poker, is to create more situations where you don't need luck, or you need less luck to win. This is what almost all poker strategy is for. The more often you can do this, the more you will win, as you need less luck.

 

[yuriko oyama]

I tend to think that even the player's skill will be a fluctuating percentage depending on the number of players competing in a given tournament, where I believe, the smaller the number, the more the skill has winning potential and vice versa.

 

[recerveau]

Of course, winning tournaments doesn't just depend on the best plays. There will be situations that will depend on the deck.

 

[pentazepam]

So do you believe that there are tournaments that no matter how well you play, if the deck doesn't help you can't win, is that it?

Yes, of course.

If you don't get any cards you have to bluff or outdraw your opponents. And that doesn't always work.

And even if you get the cards and get all the money in with aces you still lose 1 time out of 5.

And how can you outplay your opponents when you have a stack of 10BB for example?

If it wasn't for luck the best pros would win every time.

 

[puzzlefish]

So do you believe that there are tournaments that no matter how well you play, if the deck doesn't help you can't win, is that it?

Absolutely. Just play some hyper three handed sit and gos and you will see proof of it.

 

[IADaveMark]

Considering that there is a guarantee that (at least) one person will win a tournament, this is kind of a silly question.

 

[fundiver199]

Of course luck is more important than skills in the short run. When QQ run into AK for 20-30 BB, its luck, that determine, who will dubble up, and who will bust. There is a reason, why the best single table SnG players have <10% ROI and the best MTT players maybe 10-30% depending on stakes. Higher numbers than those are almost always sunruns over small samples.

 

[ZenonBR]

Considering that there is a guarantee that (at least) one person will win a tournament, this is kind of a silly question.

No, I want to know if in a situation where you are the best player in the tournament, where you make the best choices, the best plays, playing brilliantly, if that would guarantee that you will win this tournament or reach the cash?

 

[amonlima]

Will a player who makes the best moves in a tournament, playing brilliantly, cash or win the tournament by making the best choices?

Or if the deck doesn't help no matter how well you play that tournament, it simply can't be won.

What's your opinion?

You can make the best decisions, but if the deck isn't regular, you won't win.

Securing the tournament is the least important thing, and the least important thing that will happen is ROI.

 

[fundiver199]

No, I want to know if in a situation where you are the best player in the tournament, where you make the best choices, the best plays, playing brilliantly, if that would guarantee that you will win this tournament or reach the cash?

Is the answer to that not obvious? Nobody win or even cash in every single tournament, they enter.

 

[userX]

Will a player who makes the best moves in a tournament, playing brilliantly, cash or win the tournament by making the best choices?

Or if the deck doesn't help no matter how well you play that tournament, it simply can't be won.

What's your opinion?

Luck is an integral part of the game. Even the most skilled players can be defeated by a beginner player if luck is on his side today. But the most important thing, in my opinion, is to keep playing and ignore temporary difficulties

 

[dreamer13]

Without losses there is no gain, without falls there are no ups.
The game is bad in which there is no winner. Doesn't matter,
Whether you win or lose, it's how you play that matters.

 

[Gallarado777]

it's hard for even the strongest players in the world to win every tournament if the deck is not on their side and luck should be with you in poker then victory will be yours. Many players play very hard in tournaments and do everything right but the deck is not on their side so they can't win it's very disappointing and sad

 

[ZenonBR]

it's hard for even the strongest players in the world to win every tournament if the deck is not on their side and luck should be with you in poker then victory will be yours. Many players play very hard in tournaments and do everything right but the deck is not on their side so they can't win it's very disappointing and sad

True @Gallarado777, not that I consider myself an excellent player, but what I've been noticing in replay games, where the cards don't come, there are 10, 15 rounds without an equity hand coming or hitting something on the flop, and finally when it appears for example a QQ, KK, AK incredibly still lose to inferior hands that close, straight, trip or flush.

In these situations where the deck is not on your side, even bluffing does not work.
So when you try to increase the bet with RAISE, the villain returns you with TRIBET, nullifying all your moves.

In other words, nothing can be done in these cases, just watch the tournament go by.

 

[Gallarado777]

Верно @Gallarado777, не то чтобы я считаю себя отличным игроком, но то, что я заметил в играх с повторами, где карты не приходят, есть 10, 15 раундов без эквити рука приходит или попадает что-то на флопе, и, наконец, когда появляется, например, QQ, KK, AK, все равно невероятно проигрывает более слабым рукам, которые закрываются, стрит, трипс или флеш.

В таких ситуациях, когда колода не на вашей стороне, даже блеф не сработает.
Поэтому, когда вы пытаетесь увеличить ставку с помощью RAISE, злодей возвращает вас с помощью TRIBET, сводя на нет все ваши ходы.

Другими словами, в этих случаях ничего нельзя сделать, просто наблюдать за ходом турнира.

I fully agree with you here if the deck is not on your side and the game doesn't give you a card, you have nothing but to do but watch the tournament and watch, and after the card goes in you just lose, it's a shame, of course, but this is the fate of poker if the cards are not on your side, then you don't have to play today

 

[Pokerpoet2]

There are no Guarantees in Poker, Any two card's can win , and any two can lose, It is all in the Lap of the Gods (Poker Gods).
Now I am not saying it is all about Luck or the lack of it, But if you do not hit the Flop Turn or River, the only way you can win is to Bluff That is part of the Skill you need, Knowing how much you can bet to convince someone you have them beat, Too small a bet and they will call, Too big and they might suspect you are trying it on, and call just to see if you are Bluffing.
Getting that balance in your betting is very important, in order to win by bluffing, Make it look like you are wanting them to call and it will do the trick if they have only a Pair or even 2 Pair depending on the size of your bet, and the size of the Pot.
I have been involved in hands where the Board has 4 suited cards, I am sitting with two pair, neither of them in the same suit that is shown on the Table, and still called because I felt something just didn't add up! Call it Luck, Call it Instinct, Call it what you like! I still called and Won with two Pair!
That came from concentrating on the hand, following the betting, and When my opponent made his River bet he was giving me odds of around 5 to 1, Which seemed to me a good return for me to call,
Even the best players in the World have bad days, Where nothing seems to go right, Luck can make it happen for you, if it didn't you wouldn't get Amateur Players winning Tournaments, and I feel that is why Poker is so popular.

 

[Marshmalo1994]

Although it doesn't depend entirely of ourselves, I actually think that yes, every tournament can be won.
It would be hard to me to demonstrate it, but if we were able to "undo" a movement and take other direction, I think that we could reach the first place soon or later

 

[mariale_1990]

No, I want to know if in a situation where you are the best player in the tournament, where you make the best choices, the best plays, playing brilliantly, if that would guarantee that you will win this tournament or reach the cash?

For some it's luck, but for me there are good days, bad days, average days and very, very bad days, in which you say it doesn't matter how or with what hand I bet I lose, I was like this recently, the 1st day I didn't win a single bad, I started winning the play and ended up losing, on the 2nd day I won a few hands and from the 3rd day I think it improved a little, you can't always win and when that happens it's frustrating.

If you have enough control and patience to play brilliantly, intelligently, with the best hands... it can at least get you to ITM, but it depends on many factors that may be out of your control and that is why I say that with enough control and patience you can at least achieve ITM

 

[ZenonBR]

Although it doesn't depend entirely of ourselves, I actually think that yes, every tournament can be won.
It would be hard to me to demonstrate it, but if we were able to "undo" a movement and take other direction, I think that we could reach the first place soon or later

Well, I have my doubts, in a situation where you have QQ and you raise pre-flop, the whole table folds until you reach the small blind that calls, and on the flop comes 2 7 4, villain checks and you raise, on the turn comes T, and the villain checks again, you then say ALL IN, and the villain calls and presents 4 4 winning the pot and eliminating you, do you believe it is possible to escape from all these situations?

How would I fold QQ on a flop like that?

 

[10gerka]

In tournaments there is a lot of variance, but if you study a lot and have solid strategies the results will come in the long term, it is a good way to generate, I love tournaments, the results are in the end.

 

[Marshmalo1994]

Well, I have my doubts, in a situation where you have QQ and you raise pre-flop, the whole table folds until you reach the small blind that calls, and on the flop comes 2 7 4, villain checks and you raise, on the turn comes T, and the villain checks again, you then say ALL IN, and the villain calls and presents 4 4 winning the pot and eliminating you, do you believe it is possible to escape from all these situations?

How would I fold QQ on a flop like that?

I think that you're changing now the rules.
That's a cooler. There are players with a good read that can avoid that situation. But you are telling me now a specific bad beat situation. Your original question was if there is a chance of winning any tournament.

 

[fundiver199]

How would I fold QQ on a flop like that?

You dont, and this also kind of answer your question. Occationally people bust from a tournament, because they make some really bad play. But the vast majority of the time its due to some unavoidable spot. So no. You can not win or cash in every tournament, even if you play perfect. This should frankly be obvious, so this whole thread is bordering on trolling. I mean... what is it really, that you are unsure about and want someone to clarify for you?