Tammy
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
I play online so cant comment about live tells. I use a HUD, but if I dont have data on someone, or if the site dont allow HUDs, some of the signs of a weak player are:
Limping
It can be ok to limp behind or limp from SB, but in most other situations open limping is a sure tell of a weak player, especially if they do it repeatedly.
Bet sizing
Different sizings can be GTO, but if someone make a minimum bet of 1BB into a big pot, or bet several times the size of the pot on the flop, thats a sure tell of a weak player. Or if they raise far to much preflop like straight out open to 5BB.
Donk betting
Like limping donk betting (leading into the previous street aggressor) does have a place in GTO, but if someone does it on a flop or card, that favour the previous street aggressor, thats a tell of a weak player. For instance its rarely good strategy to donk bet on a dry A high flop.
Showdowns
This one is pretty easy. If people show down hands, they should not have played that way, thats an obvious sign of a weak player. Like maybe UTG opened, and UTG+1 called. They get to showdown, and UTG+1 turn over J4s or K7o, which should have been an easy fold preflop.
Limping
It can be ok to limp behind or limp from SB, but in most other situations open limping is a sure tell of a weak player, especially if they do it repeatedly.
Bet sizing
Different sizings can be GTO, but if someone make a minimum bet of 1BB into a big pot, or bet several times the size of the pot on the flop, thats a sure tell of a weak player. Or if they raise far to much preflop like straight out open to 5BB.
Donk betting
Like limping donk betting (leading into the previous street aggressor) does have a place in GTO, but if someone does it on a flop or card, that favour the previous street aggressor, thats a tell of a weak player. For instance its rarely good strategy to donk bet on a dry A high flop.
Showdowns
This one is pretty easy. If people show down hands, they should not have played that way, thats an obvious sign of a weak player. Like maybe UTG opened, and UTG+1 called. They get to showdown, and UTG+1 turn over J4s or K7o, which should have been an easy fold preflop.
RhinoRyan89
Legend
Platinum Level
One tell for live games is to look at your opponents neck in big spots if they dont have it covered. To see if there carotid artery is pumping this can only be used in a live setting not online as you cannot see your opponent online.
Ogma
Legend
Bronze Level
Live tells can include tics, twitches, deep or heavy breathing, voice pitch, voice volume, frequency of vocal contact, a person who may have previously been quiet may talk more when they had a good hand, or were bluffing, or vice versa may suddenly talk less. Visible tells can include sweating and signs of tension. Speed of decision making is another.
Always be careful when reading tells. A player may be feigning weakness in order to get more chips from their opponent or feigning strength to hide a weak hand.
Be careful when making notes about opposition players online. Twice last week I had players who according to my notes were 'bluffers' or 'donkeys' and it turned out they were carrying the mutt's nuts. Just because a player bluffed you with crap before in the past, doesn't mean they always have crap.
A main tell online is the speed (or lack of) with which they play their hand. But again, nothing is set in stone.
Betting pattern is possibly the best way of reading an opponents cards, but again, that can be disguised or used to mislead.
Murky waters, is the old bluffing game.
Always be careful when reading tells. A player may be feigning weakness in order to get more chips from their opponent or feigning strength to hide a weak hand.
Be careful when making notes about opposition players online. Twice last week I had players who according to my notes were 'bluffers' or 'donkeys' and it turned out they were carrying the mutt's nuts. Just because a player bluffed you with crap before in the past, doesn't mean they always have crap.
A main tell online is the speed (or lack of) with which they play their hand. But again, nothing is set in stone.
Betting pattern is possibly the best way of reading an opponents cards, but again, that can be disguised or used to mislead.
Murky waters, is the old bluffing game.
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YLAN
Sida Nga Taraki
Platinum Level
Not sure if I'm getting the question correctly but I would not be able to tell if an unfamiliar person is a strong or weak player. Only the record of their ROI or profitability could tell if they're such.
Somehow, we need to be familiarized with their strategy to tell if they have a winning or loosing one. Usually, TAG is a winning strategy & LAG is not but players can mix it up in the tourney so it could be difficult to tell if a player is actually strong or weak.
Tho in particular hands, there could be tells to put players in strong or weak ones. Caution tho should be taken as tells could also be disguised to convey the opposite. These are traps. “Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.” -Sun Tzu
Online, betting patterns can be a tell of player tendencies.
In Live, tells for me are things of the past. In the modern age, people are aware of such thus are now avoided or instead used by "actors".
Such as, when players grab chips & plays with 'em before an action is a sign that the player is ready to make a strong bet or perhaps just "acting" to discourage players from betting. A player that hesitates to bet could be interpreted as discomfort or being uncertain with a weak hand or perhaps just trapping with a strong hand. Lest very familiar with the player on repeated quirks that they just can't shake off.
In most, tells in poker are unreliable. Just play the cards & gut feel!
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R.Melnyk77
Visionary
Platinum Level
I only play online. I don't have the opportunity to play live. I prefer tournaments and like to play from the beginning, I don't like late registration. During the game, I carefully observe my opponents, their play, their hand ranges, and their betting tactics, I take notes. The information I accumulate, very often allows me to make the right decision. For me personally, notes are a very valuable source of information. Players who play aggressively, in most cases, are weak players for me. Patient players, who make 80-85% of their hands are strong players to me.
pentazepam
Legend
Loyaler
If someone jumps around the table in joy and excitement in this way they are so strong that I fold everything but aces (yes even kings). It is also paradoxically a clear sign of an amateurish/weak player:
If someone wears a hoodie, sunglasses, can sit totally still without showing emotions, and is in their twenties they are probably stronger/better than the average tourist player.
Online some of the most obvious signs of a weak player are one tabling, not buying in full, and crazy/abnormal bet-sizing plus the worst tell: playing all kinds of shitty starting hands and either bluffing or calling with them too much.
If someone wears a hoodie, sunglasses, can sit totally still without showing emotions, and is in their twenties they are probably stronger/better than the average tourist player.
Online some of the most obvious signs of a weak player are one tabling, not buying in full, and crazy/abnormal bet-sizing plus the worst tell: playing all kinds of shitty starting hands and either bluffing or calling with them too much.
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Suns of Beaches
Ripley rips it in on Replay
Platinum Level
One tell i saw frequently:
If i play against people i dont know and they take a long time on the river and then come out with a large bet they are in general strong since people who bluff bet more quick because they dont want to look weak.
This goes for online and live. People dont tank forever and then bluff (in general).
If i play against people i dont know and they take a long time on the river and then come out with a large bet they are in general strong since people who bluff bet more quick because they dont want to look weak.
This goes for online and live. People dont tank forever and then bluff (in general).
SL-247
Visionary
Platinum Level
I've only played live poker a few times, so I don't have the skills to read my opponent.When you sit down at the table in a tournament with unfamiliar people, what are some telltale signs that tell you whether a player is strong or weak? Can you give examples of how these tells may be different in live play vs. online?
Special thanks to @hobojim1247 for this topic idea!
antonis32123
Legend
Loyaler
I cant talk about live poker . but for online i would say that i try to see the previous actions in the hand history replayer , see what hands tend the others to play and how they play them . if i see sb calling too much and folding easily to raises or bluffs , it is a good sign that this player might be weak . if he tanks/delays a lot before bubble , desperate for a min cash at least , if he gets angry and start cursing , if he plays like a fun player ((stupid calls then use of emojis ) , i tend to tag them as weak .
But most info comes from notes , from previous games . if you sit down at a new table , in 10-20 hands its not easy to know well the opponents , if he is for sure weak and passive or not . some people use advanced tools and programs to analyse foes' decisions , i dont , so that makes it far harder to identify weaknesses .
But most info comes from notes , from previous games . if you sit down at a new table , in 10-20 hands its not easy to know well the opponents , if he is for sure weak and passive or not . some people use advanced tools and programs to analyse foes' decisions , i dont , so that makes it far harder to identify weaknesses .
Gritz18
Legend
Loyaler
I don't have any experience in live poker as I've never played, so I can't share any information.
I have some experience online as I have been playing for many years, but as I only play freeroll tournaments it is difficult to get an accurate reading of the players, as these players are generally very loose and play with any two cards.
Even in these tournaments, it is easy to identify the weakest players at the table, as they are players who play almost every hand by limping, often calling high raises with marginal hands and paying until the river even with only the third pair.
Flyer35
Legend
Platinum Level
Live - face/neck flushing (redness). People who are afraid of being the center of attention may do this. That's because they are hoping to do exactly that, become the center of attention, in a good way of course.
Also - trembling hands. Same thing, something big is on their mind, they are planning on becoming the center of attention and are not sure how to deal with it. They may also have their hands/fingers firmly planted somewhere to disguise the trembling.
Online - two check/calls in a row followed by a donk shove is almost a dead giveaway that your opponent has a monster. On the other hand the same two check/calls in a row followed by a third check is almost a dead giveaway that your opponent missed whatever they were drawing to. Of course, the latter could also be played with a bluffing shove, but most people won't try that. That's when you have to have history with this player to tell the difference.
A preflop shove, especially as an open from a player who hasn't been doing that well, almost always means AK/AQ/AJ or a big pair.
Longer hesitation - rarely means anything. Lots of strong players do this to throw you off. The player could also be taking a long swig of beer or doing something else. You never know.
Check/Insta-calling - usually means drawing for something. A bit of hesitation on the call can mean a made hand that they are trying to disguise.
Also - trembling hands. Same thing, something big is on their mind, they are planning on becoming the center of attention and are not sure how to deal with it. They may also have their hands/fingers firmly planted somewhere to disguise the trembling.
Online - two check/calls in a row followed by a donk shove is almost a dead giveaway that your opponent has a monster. On the other hand the same two check/calls in a row followed by a third check is almost a dead giveaway that your opponent missed whatever they were drawing to. Of course, the latter could also be played with a bluffing shove, but most people won't try that. That's when you have to have history with this player to tell the difference.
A preflop shove, especially as an open from a player who hasn't been doing that well, almost always means AK/AQ/AJ or a big pair.
Longer hesitation - rarely means anything. Lots of strong players do this to throw you off. The player could also be taking a long swig of beer or doing something else. You never know.
Check/Insta-calling - usually means drawing for something. A bit of hesitation on the call can mean a made hand that they are trying to disguise.
Tero
Legend
Loyaler
If I would ever play live (which is unlikely, but never say never) I would try to view how my opponents react when they win/lose, and how much they bet in these situations.
It's not easy though if they have half of their face masked inside a hoodie and sunglasses. But being in the moment with real people probably makes more lively mental note to one's brain than staring a screen. But that's why we have notes and stats for comfy home poker.
It's not easy though if they have half of their face masked inside a hoodie and sunglasses. But being in the moment with real people probably makes more lively mental note to one's brain than staring a screen. But that's why we have notes and stats for comfy home poker.
yuriko oyama
Legend
Platinum Level
I believe that in person, people who are more expansive, who try to talk, who are more fun, are the most dangerous, because you start to get involved and delude yourself, and end up forgetting that he is an opponent and maybe losing to him and even thinking it's fair so cool is he.
and online I make a parallel to this person from live, loose players, you are never sure if he has a good hand or not, and they are so annoying that when we pay to see, that time they have a strong game.
and online I make a parallel to this person from live, loose players, you are never sure if he has a good hand or not, and they are so annoying that when we pay to see, that time they have a strong game.
Canaldo Kao
Visionary
Platinum Level
Players who know how to bluff In my opinion are the strongest because when you think they are bluffing they actually have a good game!
Another detail is the players who don't expect good cards to increase their bet and have the same reaction to any type of card that comes out.
This union makes players extremely strong in live or online tournaments!
Another detail is the players who don't expect good cards to increase their bet and have the same reaction to any type of card that comes out.
This union makes players extremely strong in live or online tournaments!
najisami
Legend
Loyaler
Though poker tells in live poker could be very helpful for those who can spot them, they are still could be very deceptive since they are not based on any exact science, let alone the "Reverse Psychology" often used by experienced players...
We can't try to go through all of them here, there are so many, but I'll mention a few:
-- Be very cautious if an opponent eyes your chips before making a bet, that's usually a strength sign.
-- A sign of weakness is when your opponent looks you straight in the eyes and bets in an intimidating manner.
-- When a quiet player starts talking all of a sudden, he's more likely holding a strong hand (And vice-versa).
-- Another sign of strength is when a player looks away from the flop as if it does not please him.
-- A big bet on the river followed by a sip of water is very likely a bluff.
-- The shaking hand when betting is also a sign of strength.
In online poker, there are only a couple of useful hints one could exploit. The most known are:
-- The timing, though it's very tricky and varies from a player to another depending on their level and experience. You really need to be carefully observing your opponents all the time to be able to decide when they take a certain time to act and when they take more or less and why.
-- And then the famous "Betting Pattern" but I think everyone here knows about it.
-- There are also a few behaviors that indicate recreational players like limping, betting the minimum, showing their hands and buying-in for the minimum in cash games.
We can't try to go through all of them here, there are so many, but I'll mention a few:
-- Be very cautious if an opponent eyes your chips before making a bet, that's usually a strength sign.
-- A sign of weakness is when your opponent looks you straight in the eyes and bets in an intimidating manner.
-- When a quiet player starts talking all of a sudden, he's more likely holding a strong hand (And vice-versa).
-- Another sign of strength is when a player looks away from the flop as if it does not please him.
-- A big bet on the river followed by a sip of water is very likely a bluff.
-- The shaking hand when betting is also a sign of strength.
In online poker, there are only a couple of useful hints one could exploit. The most known are:
-- The timing, though it's very tricky and varies from a player to another depending on their level and experience. You really need to be carefully observing your opponents all the time to be able to decide when they take a certain time to act and when they take more or less and why.
-- And then the famous "Betting Pattern" but I think everyone here knows about it.
-- There are also a few behaviors that indicate recreational players like limping, betting the minimum, showing their hands and buying-in for the minimum in cash games.
mattiebumpo
Legend
Loyaler
At a live table, I try to closely observe my opponents starting with the ones to my two to my right and two to my left and working my way around the table. I note the stereotypical things: gender, age, nationality, clothing style, confidence level, handling of cards and chips, comfort level, etc. I try also observe how many hands they are playing, if they play in position or out of position, if they limp or come into the pot raising, amount of raise, frequency of 3-betting, if they flat a lot, how widely they defend their blinds, if they raise-fold, etc. Based on those things I try to determine if they play professionally, are studied recreational players, or just play for fun. I try to decide which players I want to be in pots with and which ones I want to avoid based on what I perceive to be their skill level compared to mine. In hands, I mostly base my guess on their hand strength on the actions and betting sizes that have occurred in the hand.
In online, I mostly play freerolls so I don't take things as seriously. It is mostly based on my notes about the players if I play them often. Plus, it is about timing, position, bet sizes, board texture, and if "their story makes sense or not."
In online, I mostly play freerolls so I don't take things as seriously. It is mostly based on my notes about the players if I play them often. Plus, it is about timing, position, bet sizes, board texture, and if "their story makes sense or not."
Marcwantstowin
Member of the T.S.T
Moderator
I bet you don't have many notes on me @mattiebumpo
I watch the two players to my right, and the one player to my left. When I am on button and if no one has acted, (which is rare), then I tend to raise the table standard irrespective of the cards I hold. I would not want to disappoint my two opponents.
Other than that I don't play many hands, unless I got 44, (which is of course, the nuts, on every table everywhere, live or online). (Damn another secret I have given away).
I don't believe in how players handle their chips, as they maybe throwing you a bluff, stumble to get raise correct etc.
Good luck all. (Both live and online, especially those in wsop at the moment).
I watch the two players to my right, and the one player to my left. When I am on button and if no one has acted, (which is rare), then I tend to raise the table standard irrespective of the cards I hold. I would not want to disappoint my two opponents.
Other than that I don't play many hands, unless I got 44, (which is of course, the nuts, on every table everywhere, live or online). (Damn another secret I have given away).
I don't believe in how players handle their chips, as they maybe throwing you a bluff, stumble to get raise correct etc.
Good luck all. (Both live and online, especially those in wsop at the moment).
Poker_Mike
Legend
Loyaler
Also heavy or rapid breathing. Possibly with the carotid artery pumping - this can indicate adrenalin release due to excitement.
Excitement can be the result of a really big hand or a really big bluff.
lauestla
Legend
Platinum Level
I am not a specialist but I would say:
- If a player gives a 2nd look at his cards just after the flop, it can be since he wants to be sure that he has flopped something big , so be careful.
- If a player talks a lot during a hand he is involved in, it can be a sign of weakness.
- If a player looks at your chips before betting, he is probably holding a strong hand.
-If a player is trembling while betting, it's a sign of nervousness; he is probably holding a strong hand but maybe he is not totally sure having the nuts.
- If a player tries to intimidate you while betting, it's possibly a sign of weakness... but it can also be a 2nd degree strategy
I don't see anything else and I generally trust my feelings and my intuition.
- If a player gives a 2nd look at his cards just after the flop, it can be since he wants to be sure that he has flopped something big , so be careful.
- If a player talks a lot during a hand he is involved in, it can be a sign of weakness.
- If a player looks at your chips before betting, he is probably holding a strong hand.
-If a player is trembling while betting, it's a sign of nervousness; he is probably holding a strong hand but maybe he is not totally sure having the nuts.
- If a player tries to intimidate you while betting, it's possibly a sign of weakness... but it can also be a 2nd degree strategy
I don't see anything else and I generally trust my feelings and my intuition.
mariale_1990
Legend
Platinum Level
I have never played a live tournament and comparing would be difficult for me, but I still think that if there are things that can differentiate from online tournaments, I think that in online tournaments, we are guided more by: how aggressive it is in each bet, with How often does he enter each hand, if he likes to bluff a lot, etc., I think it is the same in live tournaments, but I think the difference is that in live tournaments you can see the player, if he has any type of gesture , something that changes in him/her, I think it is based more on facial expressions, body gestures
Poker_Mike
Legend
Loyaler
Sometimes the player is just checking the suits of his cards and comparing to the flop.
Yes, and if the player talks a lot at the table and then is silent during the hand - they are usually holding strong cards.
I agree.
Or he has a medical condition. This truly can be.
I agree.- If a player tries to intimidate you while betting, it's possibly a sign of weakness... but it can also be a 2nd degree strategy
Four Dogs
Legend
Silver Level
- Bet sizing. Most people tend to bet big when strong and small when weak. I do this too but it's usually done exploitatively.
- The speech. One of the oldest tells going all the way back to Mike Caro is Strong means weak and weak means strong. Personally I think the first one applies more than the second. Whenever someone says something like. "Ok. I'll play this one just cause I want to see a flop" or " I'm ready to go home" my spidey senses start tingling
- I don't think most physical tells are very useful, the bead of sweat or the pulsating carotid vein, but one that I've seen several times and has always meant a strong hand is the Happy Feet. When someone puts a big bet in and they're legs start jumping under the table it's a sign that they're excited and they are never bluffing! Most recreational players just lock down when they're bluffing. They don't do anything or say anything that will bring attention to themselves.
- It used to be common wisdom not to look at your cards until it's your turn to act and that's still good advice if your not disciplined enough to keep from tipping your hand, but many players aren't, they reach for chips or they hover their cards waiting to muck. Keep an eye out for this. It happens all the time.
- Announcing a specific hand or announcing that they're strong. Unlike the first example. This strong talk actually does mean they're strong. "Don't call, I got the nuts". or even something like "I have Queens". I guess most people don't mind getting caught bluffing but they don't want to get caught actually lying about their hand.
hobojim1247
Legend
Platinum Level
One thing I do that has been a valuable source of information for me is to watch peoples' reactions to someone folding to their bet after substantial contemplation. Sometimes it is very easy to tell if they were bluffing by noticing
how relieved they act.
how relieved they act.
hilary antonik filho
Legend
Loyaler
I have a habit that for some is terrible, before sitting down to play, I like to observe all the players the way they sit, act, look, nervous tics, if he has contacts with other players, talks too much or less, how he moves his hands, moves his face, straightens his hair, itching mania, I observe all the tables that are in the same tournament, Each of them, I know it's difficult, but not impossible, some or most of the time, I've been able to get good results.
Days and times I usually attend.
Wednesday 1 PM.
Friday 8 PM.
Saturday 2 PM, I'll even be playing tomorrow 06/08
Days and times I usually attend.
Wednesday 1 PM.
Friday 8 PM.
Saturday 2 PM, I'll even be playing tomorrow 06/08