Update on how the Poker sites have responded to the Internet Gambling ban
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traztom
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Peter Dicks, the Sportingbet chairman, and David Carruthers, the chief executive of BetOnSports were both arrested when they travelled to the U.S. recently. france is also threatening to arrest online gaming executives. Since most of these companies are above board businesses, they will not want to become outlaws in certain jurisdictions and will comply with the law, even if they need to shut down completely.
On the positive side, it looks like the legal issues are not clear cut. In addition, some online bookies are appealing to the WTO for an unfair trade practices ruling. Antigua and barbados gota favourable ruling in 2004 but then the U.S. appealed and the WTO came back with an ambiguous ruling.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15118962/
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traztom
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Online bookies ask WTO for rescue from 'Armageddon'
Looks like the online gaming companies are fighting back. Unfortunately the current U.S. Administration have a track record of reneging on international treaties and agreements when they don't suit their purposes.
http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1886883,00.html
Looks like the online gaming companies are fighting back. Unfortunately the current U.S. Administration have a track record of reneging on international treaties and agreements when they don't suit their purposes.
http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1886883,00.html
Jack Daniels
Charcoal Mellowed
Silver Level
I doubt this. They will, as they have all along, claim they are following international law and their local laws for doing what they do. They aren't going to shut down their sites because the US 'tards in gov't passed a stupid piece of legislation.
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traztom
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Poker Firms will stay in busines but not for Americans
Sorry, guess I wasn't clear. What I mean is, they will shut down business vis a vis American players simply because they want to avoid legal problems in the U.S. . The proof is in the fact that so many of them are already blocking American players even though the law has not even come into effect yet.
If you read their announcements in the press, it seems they are going to pursue this through legal channels like the WTO but I doubt any of the established sites will outright defy the American Government if they lose. None of them want to end up in Gitmo!
They will simply restrict their dealings to residents of those countries that haven't banned online gaming.
Sorry, guess I wasn't clear. What I mean is, they will shut down business vis a vis American players simply because they want to avoid legal problems in the U.S. . The proof is in the fact that so many of them are already blocking American players even though the law has not even come into effect yet.
If you read their announcements in the press, it seems they are going to pursue this through legal channels like the WTO but I doubt any of the established sites will outright defy the American Government if they lose. None of them want to end up in Gitmo!
They will simply restrict their dealings to residents of those countries that haven't banned online gaming.
Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I understood that JD, but public companies are much more vulnerable than private ones. Traztom`s made the point already. Public companies can`t look as though they are doing anything that`s questionable or controversial, it brings them under pressure both from the markets and from the regulators.
Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
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OneMoreBust
Rock Star
Silver Level
I am very confused.... why does everyone think that just because banks/CC's cant deposit to a poker site, that Americans won't be able to play at sites and find work around?
It really makes no sense, especially since so many in polls are against making it illegal.
It really makes no sense, especially since so many in polls are against making it illegal.
bubbasbestbabe
Suckout Queen
Silver Level
I just read an interesting article about gambling on this issue. It seems that the stocks of certain rooms have taken a major tumble. What is being touted about is that now is the time to buy these stocks. Certain stock analysts are of the opinion that if you bought certain stocks you would stand to make a killing later. They are of the opinion that the industry is too big to disappear and that ways will be found to do business as usual. As the old saying goes buy low, sell high. They believe these stocks will return to thier pre Frist bill heights in a short time.
And if any of you do buy, I'll take a 5% commission for this tip.
And if any of you do buy, I'll take a 5% commission for this tip.
talkpkr2me
Visionary
Silver Level
BBB,I think you're onto something there...Get my broker on the line!!
Seriously,I believe that's probably going to turn out to be very correct and some very lucrative stock purchases will be made...As I said in another thread,the sites that are pulling out of the U.S. market are all "publicly" held companies...The privately held ones such as Absolute,Jungle,Cake,etc. have all sent out emails stating it is business as usual for them...Now,get that broker on the line!!
Seriously,I believe that's probably going to turn out to be very correct and some very lucrative stock purchases will be made...As I said in another thread,the sites that are pulling out of the U.S. market are all "publicly" held companies...The privately held ones such as Absolute,Jungle,Cake,etc. have all sent out emails stating it is business as usual for them...Now,get that broker on the line!!
talkpkr2me
Visionary
Silver Level
Well,I just got an email from Poker Ocean..........
I'm sure Titan is next....this just sucks soooo bad for me..Probably 90% of all my money is in ipoker sites....I think I'm going to cry.
I'm sure Titan is next....this just sucks soooo bad for me..Probably 90% of all my money is in ipoker sites....I think I'm going to cry.
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Freakakanus
Legend
Silver Level
I just read an interesting article about gambling on this issue. It seems that the stocks of certain rooms have taken a major tumble. What is being touted about is that now is the time to buy these stocks. Certain stock analysts are of the opinion that if you bought certain stocks you would stand to make a killing later. They are of the opinion that the industry is too big to disappear and that ways will be found to do business as usual. As the old saying goes buy low, sell high. They believe these stocks will return to thier pre Frist bill heights in a short time.
And if any of you do buy, I'll take a 5% commission for this tip.
I saw some that were less than a $1 a share....damn I need a broker and a couple more weeks to save a bit of cash and I'd buy! Someone will make tons of money on this for sure.
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Peter North
Enthusiast
Silver Level
My question is...when will this bs of a country stop taking away everthing from us? They have little by little stripped us of our freedom. I do not consider this a free country anymore. I guess the question should be what can I do?
More than ever this country needs a revolution. The best thing we can do during this election year is NOT to vote. Nobody show up...that will tell them we don't like the choices that we are given. But we all know that won't happen. So I am just waiting for the one person or groups to get pissed off enough to blow up everything in our capitol. You know something is going to happen one day or soon.
More than ever this country needs a revolution. The best thing we can do during this election year is NOT to vote. Nobody show up...that will tell them we don't like the choices that we are given. But we all know that won't happen. So I am just waiting for the one person or groups to get pissed off enough to blow up everything in our capitol. You know something is going to happen one day or soon.
Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Now,get that broker on the line!!
That really does look like a good idea. On the London Stock Exchange, Party Gaming is currently at 44p, having been 100+ before this crisis blew up, and 888(Pacific) is at 100, having been 200+.
Both are starting to rise again though. Presumably people are realising that they are now undervalued, just as you say, and that things aren`t really that bad.
bubbasbestbabe
Suckout Queen
Silver Level
Best advice I ever got that never took was even if you have enough to buy 1 share then do it. It's a start. And if you buy at the rock bottom that one share can net you as much as playing a $10 SNG.
So take some of your money from those sites who are closing their doors to US players, buy stock, watch it grow, cash it out, and play on the other sites that supported US players.
So take some of your money from those sites who are closing their doors to US players, buy stock, watch it grow, cash it out, and play on the other sites that supported US players.
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marie123
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Be careful
I would be careful of that advise. I think by pulling out of the US, many of these stocks will be worthless because they will lose their player base. I know I won't be playing at Party, even if they come back to the US someday. I will stay with the sites which value their US player base and fought to keep them.
bubbasbestbabe said:I just read an interesting article about gambling on this issue. It seems that the stocks of certain rooms have taken a major tumble. What is being touted about is that now is the time to buy these stocks. Certain stock analysts are of the opinion that if you bought certain stocks you would stand to make a killing later. They are of the opinion that the industry is too big to disappear and that ways will be found to do business as usual. As the old saying goes buy low, sell high. They believe these stocks will return to thier pre Frist bill heights in a short time.
And if any of you do buy, I'll take a 5% commission for this tip.
I would be careful of that advise. I think by pulling out of the US, many of these stocks will be worthless because they will lose their player base. I know I won't be playing at Party, even if they come back to the US someday. I will stay with the sites which value their US player base and fought to keep them.
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caitym
Rising Star
Bronze Level
confused...
im completely confused as to the new bill and what it means for me and playing online. i play on partypoker and usually use an "easybuy" to fund my account. am i still able to do that? can someone please explain this whole thing in laymans terms??...thank you
im completely confused as to the new bill and what it means for me and playing online. i play on partypoker and usually use an "easybuy" to fund my account. am i still able to do that? can someone please explain this whole thing in laymans terms??...thank you
Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I guess we`re all a bit confused, Caitym. It`s a tough situation, I`ll try to explain as best I can.
The U.S. legislature has passed a bill which will make it illegal for Banks to pass money from American citizens to internet gambling sites. It`s due to come into effect in 9 months. A lot of the detail about enforcement is not yet clear.
It doesn`t actually make it illegal for any American to gamble. It`s only about payments.
It can probably be challenged under International Law. The World Trade Organisation has already declared that the U.S. is out of line on this issue.
Poker players can possibly challenge it on the grounds that poker is a game of skill and should not be defined as gambling.
It`s not clear how, if at all, overseas banks are affected. The biggest payment processor in the industry is Neteller. They are a British bank and their operation is legal under British law. Can this American law apply to them ? Who knows.
In spite of all this uncertainty, a lot of poker sites have already acted to ban American players. You can read a list here:
https://www.cardschat.com/showthread.php?t=73173
It`s not obvious why they need to do this, as the law isn`t even in force yet. In their defence, some of those which are publicly traded have been under pressure from their shareholders to declare a decision.
Unfortunately for you, Party is of them
Perhaps you should choose a new poker room. This forum plan to "adopt" an American-friendly site soon. You can read the discussion here:
https://www.cardschat.com/showthread.php?t=73051
The U.S. legislature has passed a bill which will make it illegal for Banks to pass money from American citizens to internet gambling sites. It`s due to come into effect in 9 months. A lot of the detail about enforcement is not yet clear.
It doesn`t actually make it illegal for any American to gamble. It`s only about payments.
It can probably be challenged under International Law. The World Trade Organisation has already declared that the U.S. is out of line on this issue.
Poker players can possibly challenge it on the grounds that poker is a game of skill and should not be defined as gambling.
It`s not clear how, if at all, overseas banks are affected. The biggest payment processor in the industry is Neteller. They are a British bank and their operation is legal under British law. Can this American law apply to them ? Who knows.
In spite of all this uncertainty, a lot of poker sites have already acted to ban American players. You can read a list here:
https://www.cardschat.com/showthread.php?t=73173
It`s not obvious why they need to do this, as the law isn`t even in force yet. In their defence, some of those which are publicly traded have been under pressure from their shareholders to declare a decision.
Unfortunately for you, Party is of them
Perhaps you should choose a new poker room. This forum plan to "adopt" an American-friendly site soon. You can read the discussion here:
https://www.cardschat.com/showthread.php?t=73051
Stefanicov
Legend
Silver Level
Can non US players show their support by joining the ppa does any1 know?
The fact that netteller is a uk enterprise does not mean tht they are not subject to the laws of the US as they have to abide by the law of countries in which they opperate tho whether they are a banking institution or not is up for debate.
The fact that netteller is a uk enterprise does not mean tht they are not subject to the laws of the US as they have to abide by the law of countries in which they opperate tho whether they are a banking institution or not is up for debate.
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caitym
Rising Star
Bronze Level
thank you egon...youve definatley made things clearer for me..i just got word though that party will be shutting down on fri...yikes! this whole thing is happening alot quicker that i had expected....i cant believe it! im pissed!
medeiros13
Rock Star
Silver Level
I just got off the phone with their customer service and they told me they don't intend on shutting out US players on Friday. I did see Party was added to the US banned list that is stickied. Does anyone have some documentation from Party that definately says they're closing the doors on US Customers??
Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Check this:
http://www.pokernews.com/news/2006/10/online-poker-room-reaction.htm
Which happened to be the first place I came across it, but there`s no doubt they are closing to Americans. It`s been in all the papers and on TV here in the UK. Big news because they are number one and they are based here.
Their position seems to be that you can carry on playing in the short term, until the President actually signs the Bill. I`ve also read that they have hired some top legal eagles to consider whether they can make a case under International Law against this measure, so they haven`t totally given up.