F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
If you are a “soft” player, it makes no sense, why other players would leave the table, just because three “sharks” have arrived. Rather the table would fill up and stay filled, as long as you are playing. This is, what happen all the time on any poker site and even in live games. However if other players know, the three “sharks” are colluding, then of course no sane player would stay at the table and donate his money to the cheaters. So to me this sound very much like, you have been a victim of one of those bot / collusion rings on Party.
If bots are operated in a “ring”, they are for sure sharing information about hole cards. If for instance one bot folded K4, then another bot can opt to not play 44, since the chance of hitting a set is now cut in half. Or if one bot have AK and another AQ, the one with AQ will fold. This kind of collusion is nearly impossible for other players to detect, and while human players would get distracted by it and lose the ability to multi table, bots suffer no shortage in computing power.
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Poker Orifice
And Still...
Platinum Level
Without player's depositing, there is no site. The 'pros' generating all the rake do not make the site's survive. They need to regularly attract new customers, & depositing customers. They are making adjustments to facilitate this.... and because of that I think it is a good idea.
Perhaps a better idea would be to have a simplified HUD built into the software. But honestly, I'd prefer they didn't have that either.
Personally I'm comfortable being a recreational player, capable of playing 4 to 6 mtt's without a HUD.
PHX
Legend
Loyaler
You must deposit and verify your account to be able to play freerolls.
This applies to party poker only as other sites allow you to play freerolls without depositing.
It is a nice rule as it keeps the freeroll numbers down.
This applies to party poker only as other sites allow you to play freerolls without depositing.
It is a nice rule as it keeps the freeroll numbers down.
PHX
Legend
Loyaler
online poker is illegal in the US except for the states of NJ and Nevada.
Those other sites operate illegally. I guess it is a risk reward for the sites themselves. Party chose to go the route of not breaking the law as they have a good market share worldwide and do want to risk a repeat of what happened to pokerstars and FTP in 2011.
I believe there is a partypoker.nj not 100% sure. I know for sure there is Pokerstars.nj and us.888.com. If you are NJ you can play on them but the player pools are limited to the state and not worldwide player pools.
Those other sites operate illegally. I guess it is a risk reward for the sites themselves. Party chose to go the route of not breaking the law as they have a good market share worldwide and do want to risk a repeat of what happened to pokerstars and FTP in 2011.
I believe there is a partypoker.nj not 100% sure. I know for sure there is Pokerstars.nj and us.888.com. If you are NJ you can play on them but the player pools are limited to the state and not worldwide player pools.
PHX
Legend
Loyaler
Obviously no deposits mean no rake no site. But pros deposit as well people tend to forget about that. Also Poker rooms make money from Poker from rake not from deposits.
My view is that if HUDs are removed most of the pros will leave. This will cause the Poker to suffer significantly. You need the pros to generate the large cash games and the large gtd tournaments that attract recreational players.
The calculation for Party Poker is that they will loose on Poker but enough pros will stay to not crash the Poker economy [I think they are wrong]. They will be able to attract more recreational players with the PR of no HUDs and less Pros.
They will be hoping that these recreational players will boost their other products like Casino and Sportsbetting which are far more addictive to players and more profitable to the rooms than Poker.
My view is that if HUDs are removed most of the pros will leave. This will cause the Poker to suffer significantly. You need the pros to generate the large cash games and the large gtd tournaments that attract recreational players.
The calculation for Party Poker is that they will loose on Poker but enough pros will stay to not crash the Poker economy [I think they are wrong]. They will be able to attract more recreational players with the PR of no HUDs and less Pros.
They will be hoping that these recreational players will boost their other products like Casino and Sportsbetting which are far more addictive to players and more profitable to the rooms than Poker.
Inequitas
Legend
Silver Level
I agree I maybe Dumb (SomeTimes) I do enjoy playing dumb lol BUT I don't argue, I just express my opinion with a touch of common sense...
I don't hate playing with Better Players... I came Here to CardsChats to Play with some of the best practicing and self taught Players known to the poker forum world and I'm not doing too badly considering where I was Six months ago...
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/car...ll-tuesday-june-11th-431733/post-5216205.html
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/car...y-specials-sat-sun-1-406065/post-5201265.html
One thing you're right about was finding better games... CardsChat offer them and that's why I love it here...
I don't think it can be denied that Online Poker will Use their best "think tanks" and will continue to provide platforms designed for the masses and aimed at endless new comers who idolize poker players they've seen via online media... they'll all want to use the same 3rd party software their hero's use.
Common Sense would lead us to believe Poker rooms will not cut off HUD's entirely but cut off out side companies providing them and the uncontrolled information they deliver...
Bringing HUD to the platform they design and control offer the end user safety and an option to continue to play as they have been for some years now... or for the umm classic poker fans like my self an option to turn off HUD would obviously be available
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Alucard
Santoryu
Silver Level
Read this if you haven't
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/...ting-players-removing-hand-histories-1745206/
Banning HUDs & removing Hand Histories doesn't technically "protect" the player. As mentioned in the article.
A good example would be the GG network where HUDs are banned but there are tons of bots playing & well as countless complains about the site not letting you withdraw profits.
"classic poker fans"? I don't know what that means but if you are comparing live poker to online poker there are tons of odd things between them.
For a main thing you can have live reads where online you are playing vs a screen name.
Where's the classicality in that?
Consider a zoom cash game where all the players have random screen names which keeps changing hand from hand (annonymity) and with you playing in it. (which is what partypoker fast forward games will be)
You have no player info, you have no history you have nothing on any of the players. So you'd just be playing your hand the way you see optimal with no adjusments to the players in the table or the player you play against. You might just probably be playing vs 5 bots in a 6max table who are originated by the poker site it self & you wouldn't be able to do anything about it!!!
So now wouldn't that be dumb? Making an information game dumber?
You'd have to play solid GTO poker while making some small changes to how the general player pool will play. OH right! You can't do that even because you can't download Hand Histories!!!
Many recs don't have the problem of some players using software. They just don't care. Take pokerstars for example. Everyday you see a bunch of players who knows very little about poker jumping into higher buyin tournies trying to catch that lotto.
It's just a minority of people who keeps on hating on trackers because they don't generally understand how & what they are used for & have no intention to do so.
FYI HUD stats are more important vs regulars than recs. It's easy to beat a rec. Find a pattern be patient & take advantage over it. You don't need a hud for that.
A HUD is much more important when you need to study a regular, improve your game, find your leaks, disccuss hand histories with others & whatnot while securing the integrity of the game.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
I believe this is a key point. Sites make more money from casino and sportsbetting than poker, and when they look down on their bottom line, they see the former two going up, while poker is going down.
Everytime I close the 888 server, I get a small message saying "will we see you at 888 Sports", and I can earn more reward points, if I play poker, AND casino games AND place some sports bets.
I will not try to predict, if the moves of PartyPoker will work for them for not, but it will for sure be bad for online poker. When 888 recently launched new software, which took away the ability to take notes on your opponents or put labels on them, their renevue from poker declined 30%.
Peppinotom
Legend
Silver Level
Already set my alarm to 03:00 a.m. yawn
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
This is true, but why on earth do so many people believe, that new and net depositing (the kind word for losing) players will only play poker on anonymous tables.
Have these people ever tried to log on to PokerStars and noticed, how the cash tables, SnGs and MTTs at the lowest stakes are full of completely clueless beginners, who happily play there and dont give a s....., if someone else is using a HUD?
Its weird, how so many people can think, that the industry leader is completely wrong, and the sites struggling way below it are the once, who have seen the light.
Poker Orifice
And Still...
Platinum Level
EVENTUALLY there are no regs. if there are no recs.
Why do you think poker revenues & numbers have been dropping?
How many 'recreational' players do you talk to where you live? The ones who 'thinking about playing online (but havent' yet)'... that did for awhile and thinking about trying it again but they heard 'this & that' from 'so & so', etc. etc. etc. Do you have any contact with such people? Because THESE are the people the sites NEED for online poker to exist. Without them it slowly (sometimes quickly) dies off. They are essential to the ecology of online poker.
Poker Orifice
And Still...
Platinum Level
& fwiw, I speak with MANY recreational live players. In the live games I play in, out of 10 players MAYBE 1 other player still plays online. The goal needs to be to get as many of those people to be playing as possible. So... why aren't they playing? Some of them will say 'HUDS' but included in that statement they will have it encompass things they've made up in their head (as many aren't really armed with facts). BUT this doesn't matter... what matters is "they're not playing... & online poker needs more of them to be playing".
This isn't just my opinion. Why do you think sites are trying to come up with different ideas (ie. getting rid of HUDs)? ie. 'more rake is better', etc. etc.). Because they NEED to.... hence we need them to. (imo)
This isn't just my opinion. Why do you think sites are trying to come up with different ideas (ie. getting rid of HUDs)? ie. 'more rake is better', etc. etc.). Because they NEED to.... hence we need them to. (imo)
Poker Orifice
And Still...
Platinum Level
How can you say this ^ statement? How do you know this? Because you see a lot of bad players playing in tournaments on the weekends? That proves ZERO... can you see why? Maybe there's a 100,000 more of them who would ALSO be playing in those same tournaments if they actually REALLY DIDN'T CARE??? Or maybe I should say 124,586 more players... because it sounds good & I'm basing it on zero information (sound familiar?).
How many recreational live poker players do you speak with in a week... or a month? Any? Do they 'not care'? Or is that just the ones you're assuming don't care because they enter tournaments they're not good enough to win in over the longrun (in your opinion... cuz frankly they don't even know they're not good enough to win.... at least usually they don't. They think it's about them being lucky or unlucky and don't even really see the difference in ability between themselves and the guys who are playing 10hrs. per day 5 days a week (there's many on CC... just read the posts).
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
I think, its completely natural, that the boom years of online poker did not last, and to a large extend it has just dropped back to a more natural level. Back then poker was everywhere on TV, which is no longer the case, and perhaps not even desirable.
Its also natural, that games have become tougher, as more and more knowledge about poker strategy has become available. Just think about the number of training sites, solver software and AI software, all of which did not exist in 2004.
Finally its difficult to overestimate the negative influence, which government intervention has had. If I play on PokerStars in the early european morning hours, a huge percentage of the recreational players are from one tiny country canada.
Just imagine how much softer the games would be, or how much higher the overall level of activity, if US players were also still allowed to play. And its not just the US, which has prevented its adult citizens from playing on regulated international poker sites like Stars, 888 or Party.
Australian players can also no longer play on Stars, and players from several european countries like france, Spain, portugal, Italy and sweden have to play on their own fenced in sites. Meaning players on the international site dont get to see them at the tables.
This has been particularly devastating, since all these countries are natural suppliers of recreational players. Its all good and well, that players from Russia, Ukraine and Belarus can still play on Stars or 888. But few people in these countries have money for recreational gambling, so they mainly contribute serious net winning or break even players AKA regulars.
A ban on HUDs is not going to solve any of these issues, and importantly the moves announced by Party is much than just a ban on HUDs. As others have written, Party are also going to force a change in player alias taking away notes. And they are not going to give out hand histories, which put trackers out of play.
And these things dont have to be related. 888 have also banned HUDs on their fast fold tables, but trackers like HM or PT are still working. This mean that players can still collect hand histories and analyse them away from the table, and to me that is a much more acceptable solution than, what Party has announced.
Alucard
Santoryu
Silver Level
Exactly :congrats:
I'm not blasting towards recreationals & making fun of them. Just saying banning HUDs isn't the solution to balance out the ecology & make poker booming.
Party has being my favourite site to play so far due to the actions they took by listening to players (entre pool rec or reg) & making changes.
But these new changes are soley done by one person who see things in his own perspective.
AGAIN read this if you haven't,
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/...ting-players-removing-hand-histories-1745206/
akmost
Rising Star
Loyaler
I tried to read all the post before I write my comment , unfortunately the vast majority of the posters can't see the bigger picture here.
Without hand histories you have no control of the site , you can't run any stat analysis in order to find patterns etc.
They ban some bot accounts and you feel safe?They can infest it again based on the alias change, come on people , wake up.
If you don't want to run a HUD is your choice but why would hey stop the HH?
Well played by PP , the site gathered all the famous twitch streamers for promotional reasons and now that?I didn't see that coming!
Personally I don't care much about those changes I am a rec but I couln't overlook what is happening here.
Cheers
Without hand histories you have no control of the site , you can't run any stat analysis in order to find patterns etc.
They ban some bot accounts and you feel safe?They can infest it again based on the alias change, come on people , wake up.
If you don't want to run a HUD is your choice but why would hey stop the HH?
Well played by PP , the site gathered all the famous twitch streamers for promotional reasons and now that?I didn't see that coming!
Personally I don't care much about those changes I am a rec but I couln't overlook what is happening here.
Cheers
Tenek26
Rock Star
Silver Level
One morning we will wake up, login to the PP client, and there will be a news.
PP says: "Hi guys. We have good news for you, the Bot will play at our tables. Don't worry, this is part of our software, so everything is fine."
To be honest - to cancel a hud, a really bad idea, first of all, is a tool for tracking the honesty of the game. I don’t know why such teams as Stars once offered to poker professionals to play against their bot, but perhaps this is an attempt to form a robot, which will then be embedded in the code. Of course, these are just assumptions, and maybe I'm wrong, but who knows, maybe the rooms will someday launch bots, and in this case nothing will save us. Except Hud.
PP says: "Hi guys. We have good news for you, the Bot will play at our tables. Don't worry, this is part of our software, so everything is fine."
To be honest - to cancel a hud, a really bad idea, first of all, is a tool for tracking the honesty of the game. I don’t know why such teams as Stars once offered to poker professionals to play against their bot, but perhaps this is an attempt to form a robot, which will then be embedded in the code. Of course, these are just assumptions, and maybe I'm wrong, but who knows, maybe the rooms will someday launch bots, and in this case nothing will save us. Except Hud.
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Colette Stewart
Official partypoker Rep
Silver Level
The password for the KO series freeroll was issued in all Team Online streams during the KO series
Currently, we have Team Home games running which offer players a chance to play in MILLIONS Qualifier freerolls awarding packages for 1st
Details can be found in any of the team online channels during their streams
All players, upon next login, must change the screen name
If you miss the 17th, you will be required to change alias when you next log in however you will miss the promotions running on the 17th
Our freerolls are only open to real play accounts
We will only operate in countries where we have a full licence
Currently, in the US we have only NJ, we hope to welcome back more states in the US in the coming years
Thanks
Colette