PokerStars are suspending all services in Russia

[Joe]

Invading Iraq to topple Saddam isn't really comparable with what Putin is doing, regardless of whether or not the public was manipulated with false intelligence about WMDs.

Sure, it's convenient for Putin's narrative to try and point fingers in all directions and scream bloody murder about all the 'unjust' conflicts there have been and the hypocrisy of it all, but that's just as much of a steaming pile of horse crap as the notion that (Jewish) Zelensky is a nazi.

There is no eventuality where Putin wins.

He has 0%.

 

[azforlife]

oh man that sucks smh punishing citizens for political reasons, my country ethiopia was blocked as it was making headlines with the conflict making the headlines. my deposit on skrill was taken away as wellso i can relate but this is surely not a final decision as russian players make up a large percentage of stars players

 

[DS3]

The russian propaganda is pretty obvious, but its important to remember, that in war there is always a lot of propaganda from both sides. The large picture here is pretty clear and simple, but when it come to the daily news, which we get flooded with right now in western countries, we really need to take it all with a grain of salt and not get emotionally carried away. Yes maybe a childrens hospital got hit by bombs, and thats obviously not good, but we dont know the whole story of, what exactly happened and why.

Also I cant help but note, that certain US media like Fox News seems to be doing a fair bit of war mongering. Which ok that might be cool, if you are 8.000 km away from the front line, but for those of us, who are closer to the scene here in Europe, its not really, what we need. And sometimes US media, although technically free, are not any better than those of Russia.

I was chocked, when during a discussion about the Ukraine war on one of the US news channels, the journalist referred to the 2003 invasion of Irak as "Operation Iraki Freedom". If such terms are used here in the west to white-wash, what was a very similar unprovoked attack on an independent country with the purpuse of changing the regime, then how can we complain about russian media calling the invation of Ukraine a "Special military operation?"

I agree with some gentle push back.

Yes, the western media is very black and white but in this instance I'm quite sure this is the fair way to play it. I noted earlier Kharkiv looks like a city out of WW2 that got blanket bombed - it is appalling.

But I also think it a generally a mistake to compare one act of aggression/war with another unless you are establishing a pattern of behavior specific to participants. Even then it is tricky. Concerning specifics, I think the US and UK were justified in liberating Kuwait in Desert Storm but then not when embarking on the Iraq War.

I'm sure I often look as though I have a stock opinion, as my politics are fairly obvious but it is always specific to context. I never want to define issues through a preset lens, specifically a political lens.

 

[acidburnfx]

Let's see the numbers

Users are migrating to another platform?
GGPoker +160,000
pokerstars +55,000

 

[fundiver199]

Let's see the numbers

Users are migrating to another platform?
GGPoker +160,000
PokerStars +55,000

View attachment 302217

Players online say nothing at all, since it basically just mean, someone forgot to log out after playing 37 hours ago, and the site did not do it automatically, as the PokerStars site does. The 7 day average cash numbers are from before, PokerStars pulled out of Russia, do already at that time more people were playing cash games on GG Poker than the international PokerStars site. Nothing indicate, that Russian players can "just" move to GG Poker, like nothing has happened. For starters they cant get their money out of PokerStars, so many wont even be able to fund another poker account. And even if they can, there are likely no methods of deposit, which work, even on GG Poker.

 

[fundiver199]

Invading Iraq to topple Saddam isn't really comparable with what Putin is doing, regardless of whether or not the public was manipulated with false intelligence about WMDs.

In the legal sense it is exactly the same. You and I can easily agree, that the current president of Ukraine deserve a lot more sympati, and is a more legitimate leader than Saddam Hussein. But this is a subjective and value oriented judgement. International law simply state, that it is forbidded to invade another country unless in self defense or to assist someone being attacked (like Kuwait in 1990).

And by openly violating this is 2003, the US and its "coalition of willing" set a presedent, where for instance Russia could argue, that "we are just doing the same as the americans", if they want to install a different government in some other country. Like they now want in Ukraine. And actually there were people warning about this back in 2003. But Bush wanted his war, just like Putin wants his war now.

 

[hilary antonik filho]

I agree with Russia's reprisal, the problem is people who are not supporting the government, taking the blame, on the other hand PokerStars has no way of separating.

 

[balo]

Remember, this will only be a temporary ban until the war is over,.
And to all our Russian Putin friends , until the "special operation" is over.

 

[speper]

Yes, I searched for Russian players, but I did not find anyone, and I did not find any knowledge of Russians, and this is a strict decision. The players have no part in the wars that their country is

 

[Joe]

In the legal sense it is exactly the same. You and I can easily agree, that the current president of Ukraine deserve a lot more sympati, and is a more legitimate leader than Saddam Hussein. But this is a subjective and value oriented judgement. International law simply state, that it is forbidded to invade another country unless in self defense or to assist someone being attacked (like Kuwait in 1990).

And by openly violating this is 2003, the US and its "coalition of willing" set a presedent, where for instance Russia could argue, that "we are just doing the same as the americans", if they want to install a different government in some other country. Like they now want in Ukraine. And actually there were people warning about this back in 2003. But Bush wanted his war, just like Putin wants his war now.

In the legal sense punching a child molester in the face is the same as punching a kind, honest and innocent person in the face, I guess... :smile:

I would argue that one of those punches is less acceptable than the other, while admitting that both punches are wrong... :dontknow:

 

[DS3]

Let's see the numbers

Users are migrating to another platform?
GGPoker +160,000
PokerStars +55,000

View attachment 302217

I believe many will migrate to GG Poker to play.

There are already many Russian players who play at GG and I could see them transfering money to help others get set up.

Regarding the figures shown - GG at any given time of the day is often seen as having higher player numbers than PokerStars and that has been the case for a long while.

 

[fundiver199]

In the legal sense punching a child molester in the face is the same as punching a kind, honest and innocent person in the face, I guess... :smile:

The issues with the 2003 invasion of Irak were:

1) It was done against the UN and therefore against international law
2) It was based on nothing but lies

As for point number 2), if its ok for the US to claim, that Irak must be invaded in a "preemptive strike", because the country has weapons of mass destruction, then its also ok for Russia to claim, that Ukraine must be invaded, because it is run by "neo-nazis". Maybe Bush did actually believe, that Irak had weapons of mass destruction, but thats still not a valid reason to invade, because having weapons is not the same as planning to use them against someone.

And when we dig just a little bit deeper, that real motive for invading Irak in 2003 was an attempt to turn the country and in the long run the entire Middle East into a democracy after western ideals. This was not so much the idea of Bush himself but more the people around him. But even so that was the real reason, and in the eyes of international law installing democracy is no more legitimate than preventing it. Not everyone agree, that democracy is the best system. Putin for instance dont think so, and neither do the chinese.

Its also important to note, that Irak was governed by the Baat party, which is some sort of communist ideology, and the country was an allied of Russia. So the invasion of Irak was also an aggressive act against Russia. Putin served his first term in 2003, and experiencing this total disrespect for Russia and its valid arguments might have played a large role in convincing him, that the West was still enemies of Russia, and that in the long run war was the only solution.

Syria is also run by the Baat party and is another ally of Russia. When civil war broke out in Syria in 2011, the west supported some rebel groups. But Putin was having none of it. He had seen, how the socalled "liberation" of Irak had done nothing but open the door for islamic fundamentalists. So he send russian soldiers to Syria to keep Assad in power. So in a sense there is a direct line from the invasion of Irak in 2003 to the invasion of Ukraine in 2022. And while one does not justify the other, its quite possible, we would not be, where we are today, if US leaders had not been so incredibly arrogant and stupid 19 years ago.

 

[Alex70793]

I don't understand such a decision from Pokerstars, what does it have to do with ordinary people, what does it have to do with ordinary poker players who are out of politics, why should they be responsible for the actions of the government?
If you follow this logic, for example, your neighbor went to rob a store, but the police could not find him, so the police came to your house and arrested you.

 

[Alex70793]

I also want to add that I played on pokerstars in cash at the nl10 limit on 9-max tables, every evening the game was played on 30-40 tables, this is only on 9-max. Yesterday I went to Pokerstars to see how the game is going, on all cash tables at all limits, there were about 30 tables in total, this is a disaster, that is, there is no cash game on Pokerstars now.
With tournaments, too, not everything is good, apparently we will have to reduce the number of tournaments and reduce guaranteed payouts.
I also noticed that players from other countries began to leave Pokerstars.

You know, when you make the wrong decision, that is, the expression shoot yourself in the foot, so in this case, Pokerstars shot itself in the head.

 

[igroksash]

The whole truth will emerge only after the end of the special operation . Now there are a lot of fakes and a one-sided vision of the situation, this is an information war that forms an opinion.

 

[fundiver199]

I also noticed that players from other countries began to leave Pokerstars.

That has been going on for nearly 20 years and have nothing to do with PokerStars suspending services in Russia. For sure volume will decline further without russian players, but if anything their absense will make it more attractive for other people to play on Stars, since many of the russian players are break-even or winning regulars.

Without russians the games will become a little bit softer especially in microstakes, and who care, if there are 30 or 40 cash tables running, when you are only allowed to play on 4. The loss of the Russian market is nowhere near as important to Stars as the loss of the US market in 2011. And we also dont know, how long this situation is going to last, although I fear the worst.

 

[fundiver199]

The whole truth will emerge only after the end of the special operation.

If you cant even call a war by its name but need to use terms like "special operations" to hide, whats really going on, then you will never get near anything resembling the truth.

 

[antonis32123]

Did PS do the same thing to other countries when they were making wars in the past ??? I cannot recall any example on the near or far past . Is this the first time they do such thing ?? I would bet it's the first time .....

Anyway , sanctions as these I think are unnecessary , they won't stop the war , they target innocent Russians , not the powerfull oligarch political class and system .

 

[CTPA3]

Это продолжается уже почти 20 лет и не имеет никакого отношения к приостановке обслуживания PokerStars в России. Наверняка без российских игроков объемы еще больше сократятся, но их отсутствие сделает игру на Старс более привлекательной для других людей, так как многие российские игроки являются безубыточными или выигрывающими регулярами.

Без русских игры станут немного мягче, особенно на микролимитах, да и какая разница, если будет 30 или 40 кэш-столов, когда можно играть только на 4-х. Потеря российского рынка далеко не так важна для Звезды как потеря рынка США в 2011 году. И мы также не знаем, как долго продлится эта ситуация, хотя я опасаюсь худшего.

how are you afraid of Russians, even in poker)) now it's clear where so many sanctions come from)) it's all from panic fear) and it pleases)

 

[Amblo]

PokerStars have just announced on their Facebook page, that they are suspending all services in Russia. No reason is given, but for sure this must be connected to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some forum members including myself have called for this move for quite some time already, so I am happy to see, that PokerStars is finally doing, what many other international companies have already done.

It's man, it's the least that can be done.
A cruel and unprecedented war.
I just wonder if most Russians support their leader?

Did PS do the same thing to other countries when they were making wars in the past ??? I cannot recall any example on the near or far past . Is this the first time they do such thing ?? I would bet it's the first time .....

Anyway , sanctions as these I think are unnecessary , they won't stop the war , they target innocent Russians , not the powerfull oligarch political class and system .

there was no online poker in WWII

I don't understand such a decision from Pokerstars, what does it have to do with ordinary people, what does it have to do with ordinary poker players who are out of politics, why should they be responsible for the actions of the government?
If you follow this logic, for example, your neighbor went to rob a store, but the police could not find him, so the police came to your house and arrested you.

this generates pressure from ordinary citizens on their government. Thus making them cover and fight against, for being harmed by their leader.

 

[ztibor72]

But the Belarus players can play yet. It is a little bit strange.

It was a pretty "brave" move from the PS. The Russian market was big enough ...

 

[Alex70793]

this generates pressure from ordinary citizens on their government. Thus making them cover and fight against, for being harmed by their leader.

The Russian government doesn't give a shit about people.
In Europe, the average monthly wage is 2000-2500 euros, and in the largest and richest country, Russia, the average monthly wage is 150-200 euros, that's how Putin cares about Russians.

 

[Amblo]

The Russian government doesn't give a shit about people.
In Europe, the average monthly wage is 2000-2500 euros, and in the largest and richest country, Russia, the average monthly wage is 150-200 euros, that's how Putin cares about Russians.

Yes, I feel dude. it's not easy . I wish that this will end and that we can all live in peace and with dignity.

 

[mavrulit]

I condemn both war and sanctions. I think this and that is hypocrisy and double standards. I understand that writing here will not lead to anything. Therefore, I express only my opinion. Those who rejoice in the sanctions forget that innocent people also suffer.

 

[kanogott]

I think there is no simple answer for this question if its fair or not with this sanctions. At first the normal russian people have no chance to make great refuses to the government decision but the get hit by this sanctions. Otherwise alots of different sanctions are but the pressure on russia high. And not playing poker is the easiest sanction in comparison to the tousands of died peoples on both sides of the war.