Germany - new gambling regulation

[armoko]

This is terrible news. Most of the laws in germany are nonsense. What about then casinos in the cities ? If they stay open then its all this is a biggest joke

 

[fundiver199]

There is nothing we can do about this - eventually all of the sites will probably ban you from participating in our events.

If its any comfort, its already like this for swedish players on both 888 Poker and pokerstars. This is almost certainly due to regulations prohibiting poker sites from offering "bonuses" in sweden, which also mean, that there are no chests on Stars and no gold coins or "club" on 888 Poker.

But on balance I probably still prefer it that way rather than the "wild west", which for instance US based players need to deal with on unregulated sites. Still a shame though, that regulators have this silly idea, that freerolls or private games will make everyone a gambling addict

 

[bapfel]

I am also wondering, what is the reason to let change the rooms about this. What is the exact paragraph in the new laws, that prohibits freerolls for German players.
It makes absolutely no sense to me as they want to sell the new regulations as a kind of protecting players against gambling addiction. In my opinion freerolls can help players to avoid to gamble away their own money without thinking about this too much. They can prevent tilts and make players more reasonable. If they take this away from the players things can become even worse.
Today I can add $1000 to a room and gamble it away, tomorrow I can do the same, I can do it daily until my whole savings are away. What shall this help?
I also wonder, if they will take away the home games, that are played for play-money, as well. For me this new regulations are complete nonsense.

I wonder what possibilites we have to make a petition against this. If anyone knows or is familiar about this, it would be nice, if you could give us some tipps.
And I wonder how it will develop further at all, because I also read, that the German new regulations are kinda against EU laws, lol.

In the link you can see the new German regulation which is being implemented /"Glücksspielstaatsvertrag"... I cannot find any part or requirement in the text §§ which forbid freerolls.

The problem is without understanding, why unibet&Co. exclude the German players from freerolls (not only the cardschat ones), is it hard to do anything against it.

 

[Stollpe]

It also effects Poker, you can only have 4 tables open at the same time. I guess this is not for everyone but some of streamers are affected by this.

 

[bapfel]

It also effects Poker, you can only have 4 tables open at the same time. I guess this is not for everyone but some of streamers are affected by this.

yes but I think that is not the main problem. If you want choose and open two different pokerrooms and play on 8 tables

 

[Daniel72]

Yes its not easy - not only for streamers - now you have to decide what tournaments to chose ... if you have the choice of 12 and you only can play 4
a very new problem!

 

[whiskers77]

In the link you can see the new German regulation which is being implemented /"Glücksspielstaatsvertrag"... I cannot find any part or requirement in the text §§ which forbid freerolls.

The problem is without understanding, why Unibet&Co. exclude the German players from freerolls (not only the cardschat ones), is it hard to do anything against it.

Thank you so much for this link, I was reading the most of this. And what I read there, really shocks me. It is unbelievable. They really plan to implement a lock file for each player on a central server, so that you can't use several rooms simultaneously.
The another funny fact is, that the rooms shall be responsible to lock you by some "magical" algorithm, that detects your gambling addiction, you can lock yourself and even a third person could let you lock, if he/she reports you with the asumption, that you have gambling addiction. This lock shall remain minimum 3 month...

Well, about the freerolls they do not write very clearly, but you can interpret some parts, that third parties shall not offer it or if they offer it, there are a lot of more regulations about money, taxes and so on...

When I read this stuff, I just want look for a second flat at Malta or so...
I am still sitting here, shaking my head.

But well, let's see, if these new regulations are really conform with EU law. I guess not honestly as I read in several articles already.

 

[Geyomobama]

Hey guys,

What do you think about the new gambling regulation in Germany, hitting in today?

I am very interested in your opinion. Luckily it does not really affect poker.

Greetings. Have a great morning.

Yes it shouldn't affect poker. We hve said time and time again that poker is a perfect hybrid of gambling and skill. And lately the skill levels have been growing so rapidly that the gambling edge has become hard to find.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Yes its not easy - not only for streamers - now you have to decide what tournaments to chose ... if you have the choice of 12 and you only can play 4
a very new problem!

Can you play 4 tourneys at 3 or 4 sites at the same time (Stars, GG, partypoker, 888, Titan ..??)

 

[whiskers77]

Can you play 4 tourneys at 3 or 4 sites at the same time (Stars, GG, Partypoker, 888, Titan ..??)

So far yes, we can do, but whole regulations will start to come into force at summer this year. As I mentioned above, they hope and try to implement a central lock file for the players for all rooms.

 

[armoko]

Can you play 4 tourneys at 3 or 4 sites at the same time (Stars, GG, Partypoker, 888, Titan ..??)

You should be glad that you will be able to play somewhere after regulations will take effect lol

 

[Poker Orifice]

You should be glad that you will be able to play somewhere after regulations will take effect lol

I'm not sure what you mean?
a) I don't reside in Germany
b) I was asking the person I quoted, whether or not they're able to play more than 4 tourneys if spread across multiple sites.

 

[armoko]

I'm not sure what you mean?
a) I don't reside in Germany
b) I was asking the person I quoted, whether or not they're able to play more than 4 tourneys if spread across multiple sites.

I haven’t noticed that it was question to the another quote, sorry for confusing

 

[bapfel]

So far yes, we can do, but whole regulations will start to come into force at summer this year. As I mentioned above, they hope and try to implement a central lock file for the players for all rooms.

I cannot imagine, that this will be technically possible. Again I don`t understand the freeroll problem and why some poker rooms do that now and not in June. Will EU Poker rooms outside Germany need a special licence in Germany, too? That would possibly break the EU right "freedom to provide services"..

 

[dino]

if I read correctly, that will lead to "open a back door" so they can see at which poker client are we on.
Damn.
I don't think it's imposible.

The other option is to wait until corona is over and hit Casino's in the area.

I cannot imagine, that this will be technically possible. Again I don`t understand the freeroll problem and why some poker rooms do that now and not in June. Will EU Poker rooms outside Germany need a special licence in Germany, too? That would possibly break the EU right "freedom to provide services"..

 

[whiskers77]

I cannot imagine, that this will be technically possible. Again I don`t understand the freeroll problem and why some poker rooms do that now and not in June. Will EU Poker rooms outside Germany need a special licence in Germany, too? That would possibly break the EU right "freedom to provide services"..

This is what I meant, that is breaking EU laws and about the freerolls, I just can interpret the text, that you linked above. As I said it has maybe to do with the third party offer, that is also mentioned there, but not really sure. I am not a lawyer. And as we all know, these texts about laws are hard to read in probably any language.

if I read correctly, that will lead to "open a back door" so they can see at which poker client are we on.
Damn.
I don't think it's imposible.

The other option is to wait until corona is over and hit Casino's in the area.

I also think, it could be possible somehow. The other question is, how proper and stable this could work at all. If I imagine, that I play on one room and loose connection to this or the room has suddenly a down-time. How shall we be unlocked? Will there be some call, if the room is pingable at all or what, lol?
I guess, things will stay interesting....

 

[bapfel]

This is what I meant, that is breaking EU laws and about the freerolls, I just can interpret the text, that you linked above. As I said it has maybe to do with the third party offer, that is also mentioned there, but not really sure. I am not a lawyer. And as we all know, these texts about laws are hard to read in probably any language.

I now wrote an email to a politician of the "Bayerischer Landtag" who is hopefully involved in this topic.. I asked her about the freerolls. I will keep you informed..

 

[whiskers77]

I now wrote an email to a politician of the "Bayerischer Landtag" who is hopefully involved in this topic.. I asked her about the freerolls. I will keep you informed..

Really great, thank you for your help and your motivation to investigate!!!

Maybe we all Germans here at CC should figure out how to make a petition or so to
change things again. I would be really ready to help about this.
I am wondering how the professional players are dealing with all this stuff now, who live in Germany.

 

[Daniel72]

Can you play 4 tourneys at 3 or 4 sites at the same time (Stars, GG, Partypoker, 888, Titan ..??)

yes so far we can play 4 tables at the same time on every "regulated platform"
so far the different rooms work independent
but the politicians want more evil things

I tested more than 4 tables on Stars, in this case you have to sit out at the 5th table etc.
(you can register as many as you want, but activ playable are only 4, the rest of tables is on "sitting out")

at least there are always some rooms who dont do this shytt ... like ACR, Betonline, intertops

 

[whiskers77]

yes so far we can play 4 tables at the same time on every "regulated platform"
so far the different rooms work independent
but the politicians want more evil things

I tested more than 4 tables on Stars, in this case you have to sit out at the 5th table etc.
(you can register as many as you want, but activ playable are only 4, the rest of tables is on "sitting out")

at least there are always some rooms who dont do this shytt ... like ACR, Betonline, Intertops

Yes, it is the same for me here. But I realised, when I had some Spin&Go ticket, that you are not able to register for this, when you are at the same time registered for more than 4 tourneys, even if they will be in the future. I guess, it is a bug....

 

[StreetPhd]

OMG...I hope nothing restrictive is on the horizon for canada.
I get it, Hope is not a strategy so to all Canadians be proactive and do not vote in Politicians that believe they know what's best for you.
While I am not well versed in German Politics, I assume that an individuals vote counts for something.
Hope all is well and I look forward to seeing many German CC members at the table.

 

[Daniel72]

Now the crazy self banning buttons are removed from every Stars table, only in the main lobby it stays. Maybe too many German players complained...
And Unibet poker's client works again, so far I was only able to play in the browser...
@whiskers: Had the same Malta thought

 

[kraemer]

This is only going to drive poker underground and increase organized crime. Not going to be a good outcome.

How does legalizing something drive it underground ?

Before this new law online poker was illegal in germany. It wasn't really enforced and so you could play on most sites without ever getting in trouble, but now with the new regulations you can play and rest assured it won't give you legal trouble!

That's great news for the players!

I haven't even invested 1000€ in 10 years, so a monthly deposit limit of 1000€ is pretty much not affec ting me at all. And i think that 99% of the players will never deposit that much. But it keeps the addicts from losing their house in a few short months....

In general i think that this new regulations bring more advantages than downsides. And some of the sites profits will now remain in germany because they have to pay taxes in germany instead of in Malta. That's good. Our money now funds our own state instead of others...

The game-time and 24h self exclusion pop ups suck, but if they help to keep some people from ruining themselves then it will make poker more widely accepted as a game in the long run. I think it's better to close a pop up once per hour than to have no access to legal online poker.

 

[whiskers77]

How does legalizing something drive it underground ?

Before this new law online poker was illegal in germany. It wasn't really enforced and so you could play on most sites without ever getting in trouble, but now with the new regulations you can play and rest assured it won't give you legal trouble!

That's great news for the players!

I haven't even invested 1000€ in 10 years, so a monthly deposit limit of 1000€ is pretty much not affec ting me at all. And i think that 99% of the players will never deposit that much. But it keeps the addicts from losing their house in a few short months....

In general i think that this new regulations bring more advantages than downsides. And some of the sites profits will now remain in germany because they have to pay taxes in germany instead of in Malta. That's good. Our money now funds our own state instead of others...

The game-time and 24h self exclusion pop ups suck, but if they help to keep some people from ruining themselves then it will make poker more widely accepted as a game in the long run. I think it's better to close a pop up once per hour than to have no access to legal online poker.

I agree about several points, that you mention there. I am also glad, that poker is now officially legal and not only accepted anymore. This is really an advantage.

And I also think, it is good when there are some obstacles for people, who tend to loose their house and all goods. But I am pretty sure, that some pop-ups will not help them about this, unfortunately. They will add today $100, tomorrow $200, some days later $200 and so on until they lost all their savings. The panic button is not the worst about this, if someone at all is realising his tilt and use it. But there were already before means at PS for example to restrict your maximum buy-in limit.

And I go completely along with you, that the companies/poker rooms, that run their business should also pay taxes in Germany like every local company. And as we all know these problems are not only about the poker rooms, but also with Google, Amazon and so on.

But the problem, that I see is for the winning players. There is no official statement so far about this. How to do your taxes, when you are winning? Was it game of luck like Lotto and you do not need to pay tax? Is it just your winning, that counts? Do you also can state your investions in your tax calculation? Will you receive a good overview by the rooms for doing this? Not sure, did you try to get full listing already about this?

And the next thing is, what about the pros / the semi pros? Some play more than 4 tables to earn enough by playing on their limits. Of course, they do not deposit every day $1K, but they want to withdraw and also need to make their calculations, what needs to be transfered to the tax office and what not.

And some like many here at CC just play freerolls, but they are also limited meanwhile, this is not okay in my opinion. With freerolls the players are protected and we do not need to worry, that they will play their house away by this....

 

[whiskers77]

Does anybody know what is the status of the situation on pokerstars?

I can still play on the EU platform, and the button for 24h voluntary pausa period has been implemented.

Will the EU account be closed for a DE one?

Thanks.

Sorry, I do not know about this, honestly.

But now we have since yesterday a new affect.
The German players are not allowed anymore to play play-money games and therefore
also not anymore the home games, that are offered from Cardschat.
For me as a League Captian this is really a crap....

I would be ready more and more to start an online petition...
If someone has experience about this, please tell me, I would be ready to participate instantly.