stormswa
Legend
Silver Level
roundcat
Creature of leisure
Silver Level
Now we'll really never hear the end of his bragging about being the greatest player in the world. 
Good for him, though, and I'd love to be in his position. Instead, I just lost 88 bucks at a 2/4 limit game. Heh.
Good for him, though, and I'd love to be in his position. Instead, I just lost 88 bucks at a 2/4 limit game. Heh.
Mojomax747
Rock Star
Silver Level
I must of missed all of that, :icon_scra anyway, yeah the brunson thing can be looked at like that, the fields were small back in those times. I think maybe he can still be seen as a reason why the wsop is still going or even started to begin with though. Brunson and pugsy and those fellas got it all up and running with binions backing and stuff, glad they did.
Jack Daniels
Charcoal Mellowed
Silver Level
I have to go with Rob on this one. In most cases if I had to choose between Hellmuth and anyone else, there's a great chance I'd pick the other one. But between Hellmuth and Doyle, I insta-choose Hellmuth.
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
meh, i don't really care about who's the better player or whatever, but disrespecting one of the pioneers of the game seems pretty daft to me.
certainly PH is one of the top 5 NLHE tournament players in the world at the moment, though.
certainly PH is one of the top 5 NLHE tournament players in the world at the moment, though.
Mojomax747
Rock Star
Silver Level
Stu unger rip too, back in those days it was almost frowned at being a so called or rightly called degenerate gambler. These days you are the star, the man, the hero to many, times change a hell of a lot. I think they all deserve their place for whatever times they were involved in it. It was tougher and bolder in times past to get these things up and running with lots of obstacles to surmount. I think the hall of fame shows the history of the wsop in the right way. We all have to start somewhere and we dont get to choose the amount of entries, we just go there and do what we can.
Stick66
Legend
Silver Level
Anyone who bashes Doyle Brunson has never seen him at a cash table. There's no recognition for cash prowess, so let the man have a little status with his bracelets. I seem to remember him winning one a year or 2 ago that was pretty impressive against all the heavies. Sure, Hellmuth could be considered the best, but Doyle's no chopped liver modern tourney-wise.
What about Johhny Chan and his 10?
What about Johhny Chan and his 10?
aliengenius
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Consider the caliber of the smaller field however (?)...
C
cuicyde king
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I myself think brunson is great and hellmouth isnt all that cracked up to be what he is but i commend him on his 11th bracelet. You have to remember Hellmouths bracelets were also won in smaller fields, not even a few years ago were the magnitude of people as they are now. Brunson still is best as well as Chan, Hellmouth not a fan but he is top neither of them deserve any disrespect even if you dislike them they have all done farther than most can accomplish in our futile online attempts.
beardyian
Scary Clown
Silver Level
I have just watch PokerDen here on tv in the UK - supposedly based in an old Eastend hideaway where the big money changes hands etc.
Names such as Kenna James, Roland de Wolfe, DevilFish, Tony G, Juha Helpi and a certain Mr Hellmuth splash the cash.
So far Hellmuth (13 hours into the game - just past halfway) has just bought back in for the 3rd time (several thousand £) and even then, called de Wolfes AJ raise by going all-in with A3!! - hit the 3 on the river (ouch, suckout).
So it appears the trend continues - tourneys he does do well in, cash games = ohh dear
Names such as Kenna James, Roland de Wolfe, DevilFish, Tony G, Juha Helpi and a certain Mr Hellmuth splash the cash.
So far Hellmuth (13 hours into the game - just past halfway
) has just bought back in for the 3rd time (several thousand £) and even then, called de Wolfes AJ raise by going all-in with A3!! - hit the 3 on the river (ouch, suckout).So it appears the trend continues - tourneys he does do well in, cash games =
ohh dear
J
joeeagles
Legend
Silver Level
I can agree with this, Hellmuth had to beat bigger fields to get his bracelets.
But there is one thing about Doyle that can't be denied. As far as I know this guy never worked a day in his life besides playing poker. While today many players are able to do this, its also mostly because of the corporate presence in poker today. Doyle had to do the hard way, making a living on the tables only, and in the 70's and 80's and most of the 90's, the only tournament was the ME.
Doyle did it on cash tables, and not everyone could do it. Today most of them have to only show up and play, with all expenses paid. I'm not speaking for Hellmuth, the guy is gifted, like him or hate him, but many others would probably have to get a job if it weren't for the big on-line explosion, the books they sell and the many sponsors that support the game. What's funny is that those same people are the ones that often insult the on-line players, almost biting the hand that feeds them.
I'm not defending Doyle, I'm exactly like Chris I really couldn't care less, but he certainly made a living with the game in times that were much tougher than now. Him, Barry Greenstein, David Sklansky, Stu Unger, Chip Reese and a few others, deserve a lot of respect fot that, grinding it out on cash tables in the old days as the only source of income.
smd173
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
You'll always look alittle better off if you look up something before making assumptions. Doyle in fact had his leg broken while *WORKING* at a job moving sheetrock. It ruined his potential NBA career as he was a great athlete and the Minneapolis Lakers had been scouting him.
No doubt that Doyle earned his stripes the hard way and should be admired. Phil has only won a few bracelets since the explosion in poker's popularity. Doyle has won 1 since then and hopefully gets this 2nd today.
J
joeeagles
Legend
Silver Level
Well, I did say "as far as I know", I'm not really making assumptions. In any case I believe you're talking about a period in his life when he was yet to start playing, or was in his very beginning. But all this really doesn't matter, its irrelevant, and its not the reason I posted previously to this (i.e. no need to reply just in case you find out he worked 6 months in a shoe factory).
The real point I wanted to make is that he did it the hard way, actually having to win on the tables to pay his bills, in a time when the WSOP consisted only of the ME which didn't have a payday even close as the one today, and the WPT, on-line poker and the money it throws to todays "pros", other corporate sponsors like cardplayer.com and whatever else, revenues from books and articles etc, was still years and years to come. They had to take the time to learn all kinds of games, not only holdem, like lowball, stud, 5 card draw etc. WINNING ON THE TABLES was the only source of income. What he and those other guys I mentioned did in those days, plus a few others that I'm sure I forgot because I'm not "looking it up" as you say, is remarkable. In the 70's and 80's, when a game started it could go on for 3 days in a row, real marathons that those guys had to endure in order to make a living on poker.
That was my whole point, and I'm not making it to take any credit away from Phil Hellmuth or anyone else. But w/o any doubt these guys have it much more easy today. This, I don't think I need to look up.
Emperor IX
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
No, in 1973 they introduced preliminary events...
J
joeeagles
Legend
Silver Level
Ok, since we're going to be looking more at this stuff instead of discussing the more interesting content of the post, just to make things clear the preliminary events were introduced in the early 1980's, not 1973, so about 10 years later. In any case these tourneys were still pretty small and very few, and stayed so for a long time, certainly not something to depend on for a living.
Emperor IX
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
No, there was razz, stud, and draw games as well as another he tourney in 73
1973 World Series of Poker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But either way, I know it's irrelevant. I was just raggin' on you.
I think that Brunson in the big picture is really no big deal. Yeah sure, he made a lot of dough at the cash tables, but guess what? So did a lot of other people.
1973 World Series of Poker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But either way, I know it's irrelevant. I was just raggin' on you.
I think that Brunson in the big picture is really no big deal. Yeah sure, he made a lot of dough at the cash tables, but guess what? So did a lot of other people.