Tournament experience and tips

[5TR8 FLUSH]

Yesterday I went to my third live tournament (1st in home town). First off I enjoyed my time at the table's and met some kind people. Several things happened and I hope this helps others who are new to tournaments, and also hope people enjoy reading the post.

1st - I registered, got my ticket, and I am told to sit at table one, seat two. I go to table one and there's chips at seat 8 (honestly I didn't know what seat this was), so I sat down. About 15 minutes into the tournament the tourney director comes up to me asks for my ticket, then tells me that I'm in the wrong seat and shows me the correct seat and tells me to stay were I'm at. I apologized, and the director said it wasn't my fault and went up to the dealer and let him know that it was his responsibility. That same dealer was having trouble counting and the kind people at the table were helping him when he had to give people change. TIP seats start to the left of the dealer.

2nd - Pay attention: I'm playing and I win a couple small hands and playing tight. The third or fourth hand I raised, I didn't realize the player on seat five called, I only noticed the player to my left (seat 9). Flop comes and I continue bet, seat 9 folds and I mucked cards thinking I won the hand, but then I get told the person in seat five is still in. He re-raises and I folded. If it wasn't for the momentary anxiety and embarrassment, I would have played my hand differently.

3rd - Bluff: The same player I was talking about above (seat 5), I noticed was the most loose and aggressive player at the table. My hand is 9H 10D off suit. Board is 7 H 8H QC, seat 4S continue bets, I called turn, River 5H bets same amount again. Seat 5 decides to min bet, so I shoved an he folded. Biggest pot I won.

I didn't make the money, but had a great time. I'm thinking about going again next Tuesday since it's the cheapest tournaments they have. If anyone has any tips or experience in live tournaments, please share.

 

[acemenow]

Too bad about the dealer, I go to Mohegun sun or Foxwoods, an the dealers always verify peoples seats as they sit down and won't deal to someone until they verify at least in my experience. Unfortunately no tips to offer, I went last week for the first time since pre covid. Got there late and chose to play cash instead of the tourney I was an hour late for. Should have checked stack sizes and starting stack before I made my decision. Just felt really out of place on a cash table it had been so long. But gl on your next trip !!!

 

[roger perkins]

I have been playing for years. All events WPT wsop GAPT MSPT HPT. Often playing 1 days Monday Thursday and multiday every weekend. My best advice is not only to pay attention when your in an hand but pay better attention when you are not in a hand. Listen closely to what people say and what they do. NEVER NEVER show do not give away free information of how you may or may not have played a hand. Every little bit of information is knowledge. The more you know and the less they know is valuable.

 

[5TR8 FLUSH]

I have been playing for years. All events WPT WSOP GAPT MSPT HPT. Often playing 1 days Monday Thursday and multiday every weekend. My best advice is not only to pay attention when your in an hand but pay better attention when you are not in a hand. Listen closely to what people say and what they do. NEVER NEVER show do not give away free information of how you may or may not have played a hand. Every little bit of information is knowledge. The more you know and the less they know is valuable.

Too bad about the dealer, I go to Mohegun sun or Foxwoods, an the dealers always verify peoples seats as they sit down and won't deal to someone until they verify at least in my experience. Unfortunately no tips to offer, I went last week for the first time since pre covid. Got there late and chose to play cash instead of the tourney I was an hour late for. Should have checked stack sizes and starting stack before I made my decision. Just felt really out of place on a cash table it had been so long. But gl on your next trip !!!

acemenow - Thanks for sharing your experience. I am new to live tournaments, and have not yet played in a live cash game mostly because I'm worried of losing a lot of money quickly. I've played in a few home games through the years, but mostly had online experience before it got banned here in Arizona.

roger - Thank you for you advice, I'll keep that in mind next time I go play my next tournament. I'll try to pay more attention, and not give to much information. It's impressive that you have played at WPT and the WSOP (I'm not familiar with the other ones). Have you ever met players like Phil Ivey, Daniel Negreanu or Doyle Brunson?

 

[S3mper]

I've sat at the wrong table once too, though it was in the middle stages of the tournament and not the beginning.

It was especially embarrassing because the Floor told me to move to table x and I asked "which one is that?" And he points and he pointed to a spot between two tables from my perspective. And I asked him again after he finished pointing and he again pointed to the middle of two tables (from my perspective)

I didn't want to ask again so I was like screw it I got a 50/50 shot.. Chose wrong.

About 5 minutes later he let me know I chose wrong but said "Oh well now" and we kept playing.

 

[roger perkins]

acemenow - Thanks for sharing your experience. I am new to live tournaments, and have not yet played in a live cash game mostly because I'm worried of losing a lot of money quickly. I've played in a few home games through the years, but mostly had online experience before it got banned here in Arizona.

roger - Thank you for you advice, I'll keep that in mind next time I go play my next tournament. I'll try to pay more attention, and not give to much information. It's impressive that you have played at WPT and the WSOP (I'm not familiar with the other ones). Have you ever met players like Phil Ivey, Daniel Negreanu or Doyle Brunson?

Never sat with those three but here are a few I can tell you about. Moneymaker seems quietly arrogant to me, Helmuth is exactly how you see him loudly arrogant now don't take either the wrong way both deserve to be arrogant. Vanessa Rousso if you are a Big brother fan and watched her there she is exactly like that at the poker table she is very very good at intimating and getting into other players heads and she is one of my favorite. Raymer was very good to sit with he talks a lot and explains what he is thinking I learned the most from him. Antonio Esfandiari left a bad taste in mouth, he was at a charity event and seemed like all he wanted to do was get out of there, I may be wrong about him but that was my opinion. Norm Chad was totally entertaining and hilarious. I could go on but those are a few off the top of my head.

 

[5TR8 FLUSH]

I've sat at the wrong table once too, though it was in the middle stages of the tournament and not the beginning.

It was especially embarrassing because the Floor told me to move to table x and I asked "which one is that?" And he points and he pointed to a spot between two tables from my perspective. And I asked him again after he finished pointing and he again pointed to the middle of two tables (from my perspective)

I didn't want to ask again so I was like screw it I got a 50/50 shot.. Chose wrong.

About 5 minutes later he let me know I chose wrong but said "Oh well now" and we kept playing.

Semper, that sound very similar to the first time I played in a tournament. I went to Vegas and had to ask several times which table, lucky there was a TV the person could point at and it made it easier to find. That dealer did a good job and let me know where to sit.

Never sat with those three but here are a few I can tell you about. Moneymaker seems quietly arrogant to me, Helmuth is exactly how you see him loudly arrogant now don't take either the wrong way both deserve to be arrogant. Vanessa Rousso if you are a Big brother fan and watched her there she is exactly like that at the poker table she is very very good at intimating and getting into other players heads and she is one of my favorite. Raymer was very good to sit with he talks a lot and explains what he is thinking I learned the most from him. Antonio Esfandiari left a bad taste in mouth, he was at a charity event and seemed like all he wanted to do was get out of there, I may be wrong about him but that was my opinion. Norm Chad was totally entertaining and hilarious. I could go on but those are a few off the top of my head.

Roger, those are some great poker names you have sat with. I use to keep up with poker from 2008 - 2012 and remember those players. I remember hearing about Monemaker winning WSOP, I watched many videos with Helmuth (I find him annoying), Vanessa back then was with poker stars I believe. I remember seeing Raymer with his glasses, and Esfandiari on high stakes. I had to look up Norm Chad, and I remember hearing him commentating in some of the videos I use to watch. I hope to get more comfortable and improve my live games and get to meet some big poker names. If things go well, I'll plan to make another Vegas trip next year. It would be cool to meet some CC members as well.

 

[natsgrampy]

One of the first live tournaments I played was at Foxwoods, before they played tournaments upstairs.
It was a WPT event and the place was PACKED. I got in line and by the time I purchased my ticket, the tournament had started.
They had 2 tournaments starting at the same time. There was a $800 game and a $265 game. The one I got into was the $265.

I found the table, gave the ticket to the dealer, and he pointed to my seat. He gave me a chipstack and we carried on as normal. About 15 minutes later, the Tournament director came up to me and asked me to step away from the table and show my ticket. I complied and was pretty nervous I screwed something up.

Turns out I was at the right table, right seat, wrong tournament! I thought he was going to ban me for life, but, he walked me to the correct table and wished me luck. I saw they sent the dealer on his break though.

@acemenow, you live in CT? I play regularly at Foxwoods, we may have crossed paths.

 

[fundiver199]

Thanks for sharing. The one about not noticing, who is in the hand, made me smile. I play online typically at 4 tables at a time, and obviously you cant accidentally muck your cards online. But its still not great to open jam a 23BB stack from SB with some junky hand thinking, you are 11BB effective with BB, only to get snap called by someone, who had limped in from UTG and have you covered

 

[fernandofcp]

Dear 5TR8 FLUSH, Your experience was really cool! Thanks for sharing! I've never had the opportunity to participate in a live poker game, but I plan on having that experience at some point in my life. Funny the part where you said you sat in the wrong seat and had to change your position. Glad you had fun.

 

[acemenow]

One of the first live tournaments I played was at Foxwoods, before they played tournaments upstairs.
It was a WPT event and the place was PACKED. I got in line and by the time I purchased my ticket, the tournament had started.
They had 2 tournaments starting at the same time. There was a $800 game and a $265 game. The one I got into was the $265.

I found the table, gave the ticket to the dealer, and he pointed to my seat. He gave me a chipstack and we carried on as normal. About 15 minutes later, the Tournament director came up to me and asked me to step away from the table and show my ticket. I complied and was pretty nervous I screwed something up.

Turns out I was at the right table, right seat, wrong tournament! I thought he was going to ban me for life, but, he walked me to the correct table and wished me luck. I saw they sent the dealer on his break though.

@acemenow, you live in CT? I play regularly at Foxwoods, we may have crossed paths.

Hi Natsgrampy yes I live about 1hr 45 min from fox/sun. I usually go to mohegun when I go, cause my mom like to come and does better at the slots there than she does at FW. I don't go that often though.

 

[Jogo4]

I've never played a live tournament, I'll have to play it, it looks too good. just reading the comments I'm already excited

 

[BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch]

Yeah if you don't know stuff then you should ask.

That's what the dealer and the floor folks are there for. And don't try to "act" like you know what's going on because you can find yourself in situations that could really put yourself at a disadvantage.

The regulars are going to be able to spot you by stuff like you mentioned like not knowing how the seating goes which could have been avoided by asking someone when you got a ticket or arriving at the table and asking a dealer. Even if there wasn't a dealer at the table you could have asked a dealer at another table. The regulars will spot you by how you handle the chips or having to look at your cards over and over or stuff like that screams online player or a beginner.

There are folks that are shy or don't like speaking up to strangers but when it comes to your buyin/your money then you have to speak up because other folks at the table are going to speak up and catch you at a disadvantage.

 

[5TR8 FLUSH]

@acemenow, you live in CT? I play regularly at Foxwoods, we may have crossed paths.

Nat's thanks for sharing your story. Big difference in the buy-ins. Glad everything worked out. It'd be cool if you and Ace play a live game together some time. If you do, hope you guys share the experience.

But its still not great to open jam a 23BB stack from SB with some junky hand thinking, you are 11BB effective with BB, only to get snap called by someone, who had limped in from UTG and have you covered

Fundiver, OUCH. Yea, that's a bummer. I remember back in 2009-2010, I use to play four games at once as well. It's fun, but risky. Thanks for sharing.

Dear 5TR8 FLUSH, Your experience was really cool! Thanks for sharing! I've never had the opportunity to participate in a live poker game, but I plan on having that experience at some point in my life. Funny the part where you said you sat in the wrong seat and had to change your position. Glad you had fun.

Fernando it's worth experiencing the live game experience if can afford to do so. It took me till I turned 32 to finally go out and play a live tournament, and I'm glad I did. I'm hoping to plan a trip to Vegas next year during the WSOP, and hopefully run into some CC members.

I've never played a live tournament, I'll have to play it, it looks too good.

Same to you Jogo, glad your enjoying the thread.

Yeah if you don't know stuff then you should ask.

Thank you for the advice. I like you "signature" message.

 

[samsmoot]

I wrote a series of short articles on live tournament play so I think maybe here would be a good place to air them if that's appropriate. I did them for another forum but they weren't wanted in the end. I'll have another look and post whatever is relevant. From what I remember there was much anecdotal stuff but I did also try and clearly explain chip value as it relates to poker tournaments - this is a pretty important aspect of tourney play - but not for cash games - and is something perhaps not previously considered by most novice players. It's not vital, but in poker: knowledge=money, and a small increase in knowledge can make a big difference in expected outcome.

 

[samsmoot]

I found one of the articles - it's about paying attention and tells. It's very basic. Every live poker player should have some grasp on the common reads you can get on other players and this describes a few, as well as recommending some reading on the subject.

I say basic, but the last bit may not look it. If you can't at least somewhat divine someone's attitude towards their hand then you are probably not paying attention. There will be some clue somewhere. Usually, anyway.

In this instance it was a matter of putting 2 and 2 together: near the end of tourney buyin period; other player's need to be there with adequate chips for 'ammunition'; a need to 'justify' playing such a bad hand by preempting any criticism from the railer; player'scared' of having insufficient chips after rebuys (due to rebuy rules); a general 'gambler's attitude' from what I perceived; his railer friend's apparently less than encouraging response etc.

I know a bit of Greek and that sometimes gets me specific information - usually after a hand but - believe it or not - sometimes during a hand!


************************

Observing the actions of your opponents is a key element of live poker play. Paying attention to what is going on around you can make, and save, you money, as opponents give out clues to their holdings in many different ways, some obvious, some not so. The improving player will incorporate into his game an understanding of the meaning of tells, and will have studied a good book on the subject, such as Mike Caro's Book of Tells.

Tells come in three varieties: voluntary, involuntary and stupiditity. You can the learn about the first two categories of tells, and if you play enough live poker you will probably encounter the last one now and again.

Under the voluntary tells category comes the 'strong-when-weak/weak-when-strong' concept. This suggests that some players, when they have a good hand, will try to represent that they have a weak hand, and vice-versa. You have to watch out for a change in player's betting habits and attitude, then figure out if it's relevant to the hand in play.

A player with a strong hand, for instance, may feign disinterest; they may push their chips in very slowly or seem reluctant to put their chips in the pot at all. They may be chatting away to the player next to them until prompted to act. They are being 'weak-when-strong'.

Perhaps the most common 'strong-when-weak' tell is the premature bet. You call an opponent's raise pre-flop, then before the flop has finished being dealt he pushes (or throws) his stack in. Even though it was your turn to act. If you did not learn the possible meaning of this action, then you would be in line to make a wrong decision: you might suspect something was up, but not be quite sure what.

Involuntary tells are the most reliable indicators of what a player has in his hand. A wildly throbbing neck vein of the opponent who has made a large re-raise means he is most likely to be bluffing. The opponent whose hands are shaking uncontrollably as he pushes his stack to the middle should not usually be called: his hand is so good he just can't contain his excitement. If you are very attentive you may see a player glance down at his chips - for just a microsecond. This very likely means that at that moment he thought about betting. He may not bet, but knowing that he may bet is information you might profit from.

Some players are stupid enough to actually tell you what their hand is - or isn't. A player once told me "I don't believe you've got the flush" - another player at the table pointed out the obvious: "Yes, but now he knows you haven't got it". A different player told me he knew I did have the flush, then, unbelievably, called my slammed down stack ('strong-when-strong', a good way to play it most of the time).

One time a player was discussing his hand with a railer, but in a foreign language. With a bit of help from his gesticulating I managed to figure out that what he was saying was, "It's the last few hands before the rebuy period ends; I've only got about half a buy-in left so I may as well take a chance with these rubbish cards; If I lose, I'll make another rebuy plus a top-up, then I'll have more chips than if I just kept the chips I have now and then topped up, and it will cost me £100; If I take the gamble and win, then I may just need to top-up, which will cost me £50, or possibly nothing if I double-up again". I called his all-in bet with pocket fives, which beat his J-3 offsuit, then doubled up again a couple of hands later with pocket aces. I avoided both a rebuy and a top-up and went on to finish in the money. And all because I was paying attention.

 

[5TR8 FLUSH]

Mike Caro's Book of Tells.

voluntary, involuntary and stupiditity

weak-when-strong'.

'strong-when-weak'

Thank you for sharing Sam, and I hope you share more articles and knowledge you know about the game. Everything above is great, and going to re-read this and do some research to try to better understand and try to improve my game. I'm planning on going to play a live tournament either tomorrow or Wednesday and practice some of the advice that has been shared. I'm also gonna look into getting the book you shared, and possibly Doyle's book, "Super System". I've read that Doyle's book is no longer relevant to how the game is played today, but I'm sure there information there that I don't about. If you have anymore articles or books you recommend, please share.

 

[samsmoot]

I paid £50 + £20 for Super System and Caro's guide to understanding it and I'd say it wasn't worth the expense. I didn't read more than a page or two.

There are much better books that would help your tournament play. A good one (or two) on poker psychology is worth having for live play.

Sylvester Suzuki's book contains important concepts about how chip value changes throughout a tourney, though maybe you don't need a whole book for that. If I can't find the article I wrote I will try and sum it up anew.

The one book I am reluctant to recommend due to it being a bit dated is Cloutier's Championship No-Limit & Pot Limit Hold'em. BUT, it did give me an excellent framework for tourney play strategy and I read it constantly. I applied the concepts quite strictly, one of which was always betting the size of the pot. Suited me fine, as I could never keep track of the size of the pot!

The best advice is to read as much as you can. Any small % you can add to your knowledge will add % to your expected outcome. And older/used poker books are quite cheap, so getting a few Sklansky books is a no-brainer. He tends to focus on cash/limit games but there's one on tourneys and a few general ones which you should find useful.

Assuming you recently played a tourney (as you indicated above), you would next be trying to figure out where you went wrong if you didn't get into the money (or maybe even if you did). But how will you OBJECTIVELY know that? By comparing your play to the play that you decided upon pre-tourney. And that play is? As per the instructions in the book you choose to be guided by. Read everything but have a poker tournament 'bible' to work from (as per Cloutier or similar). If you did everything to plan then keep doing it. If not, don't. Just because you won a big all-in with A9 against what fortunately turned out to be a KJ does not mean you should be doing that on a regular basis, for instance. And if you happened to lose big against pocket 5s with pocket Kings four times in a row you know that in most cases you SHOULD be playing those Kings that same way every time your opponent has pocket 5s.

You can play excellent poker for three months and not win a penny, so perseverance is vital. As long as you stick to the script you can't go too far wrong. It's quite hard to judge how good or bad you actually are when you first start playing but don't worry about it: just do as you're told and hope for the best.

One more thing: tournaments have much dead money. Apart from those players who are useless you'll find a few who are not there to win money. Some are there to pick up a partner - both males and females. Some can't stay out too late due to age or infirmity. For some it's a way to kill time until the cash games start. Or because that's what's happening at the casino they frequent 7 days a week. I'm not saying that knowing this will make you money but what I am saying is that it's all a part of observing what's going on, and now I have mentioned it you'll probably see it for yourself, if you haven't noticed already.

Cheers! And good luck!

 

[5TR8 FLUSH]

Cheers! And good luck!

Thanks Sam, thanks for sharing. I decided to go play in a live tourney on Wednesday. This was my best tournament yet (I got eliminated 15th out of 45+ entries). The blinds where 500/1000 and I had about nine blinds left. I was at the cut off position, and raised 2 1/2 blinds with A7s. Board came 2 7 10 rainbow. I checked, raised all in against the big stack (SB) at the table and he insta called with QQ. I was playing tight all game, but made a play in the wrong spot, and got eliminated. I'm hoping to go again in two weeks and looking to do some research during.

From advice and experience from others, I was able to pay more attention and be present at my first table. I felt comfortable, but then got moved to another table, and was card dead (except one hand, I got a full house, but small pot). I sat at the correct seats this time, lol. Besides many people knowing each other, I felt that at least two players could read my body language at my first table. Reminded me of what you said about our expression and behavior when looking at our cards.

I did order three books, kind of wish I would have read your previous post to make better decision. Since I ordered these, I'll look into them, and share any valuable info.

These are the books:
Super System, The Theory of Poker, and Caro's Book of Tells

so getting a few Sklansky books is a no-brainer

I'll start with "The Theory of Poker", and hopefully I understand it and find it interesting.

 

[samsmoot]

Thanks Sam, thanks for sharing. I decided to go play in a live tourney on Wednesday. This was my best tournament yet (I got eliminated 15th out of 45+ entries). The blinds where 500/1000 and I had about nine blinds left. I was at the cut off position, and raised 2 1/2 blinds with A7s. Board came 2 7 10 rainbow. I checked, raised all in against the big stack (SB) at the table and he insta called with QQ. I was playing tight all game, but made a play in the wrong spot, and got eliminated. I'm hoping to go again in two weeks and looking to do some research during.

Pretty good going. I'm sure you'll feel quite encouraged by your placing, and so you should. It's not difficult to make a wrong play at some point. Players get better the deeper into the tourney too.

Have a plan for when you go next. Have one particular aspect of play in your mind to formulate and apply: Will I play tight? Will I play loose at the start then tight? Or vice-versa? Will I routinely raise pre-flop with AK, or sometimes, or never? Will I call raises with small pairs? Sometimes? Always? Never? Will I ever slow play big pairs pre-flop? Will I raise with medium pairs? Will I call a raise with A9 or worse? Choices of starting hands and how to play them is but one aspect of strategy you might want to pay attention to if you haven't decided on these things already.

I felt that at least two players could read my body language at my first table. Reminded me of what you said about our expression and behavior when looking at our cards.

Ah, now here is where you can go the extra mile. Learn how to relax on demand. Find some material on relaxation techniques and use them at the tables. Once pefected you should be able to totally relax your body within about 5 seconds. This helps with feeling comfy until the end of the tourney, as otherwise you are likely to get tense and stressed. And, of course, it enables a 'poker face' to be your standard. My opponents would often ask the player next to me to give me a nudge, as it could look like I was asleep. It may sound backwards but 'tuning out' enables you to be tuned in. You still have your ears open and peeping from under your eyelids is allowed.

This somewhat ties in with not caring about each individual pot's (or indeed tourney's) outcome and instead focusing on the long-term: you won't 'care' if you win or lose any particular pot, provided you played according to plan. This attitude, combined with a relaxation method, may convey an air of 'disdain', or 'arrogance' or indifference. For a serious and tight-aggressive player such as myself this worked quite well. Some players just want to get one over on you and often play a hand all wrong in their rush to beat you down for being such a smartarse.

I did order three books, kind of wish I would have read your previous post to make better decision. Since I ordered these, I'll look into them, and share any valuable info.

These are the books:
Super System, The Theory of Poker, and Caro's Book of Tells


I'll start with "The Theory of Poker", and hopefully I understand it and find it interesting.

The Theory of Poker is an excellent choice as it's a good guide to understanding many important concepts.

Caro's book opens your eyes to otherwise obscure and possibly unmeaningful actions. Most of the time you won't be in a hand when you spot a major tell, but it may take only one spotting of a dead giveaway to get into the money, and you'll be prepared when it happens. I recommend that you read the book at least 5-6 times.

I have to confess to having a natural ability for reading the hands of other players, which I utilised in 3-Card Brag games at the pub. That's the main reason I thought I could do well at poker, and it turned out to be correct. With the help of Caro's book I was able to have much more confidence in my decisions due to the codification of what were previously 'feelings' and 'probables'.

Somewhat related to the above is 'depth of thinking' of an opponent. I'm sure Caro will discuss it, and a good poker psychology book will say more, but it's of utmost importance to put your opponent into the right category or thinking level in order to be able to effectively deal with them. So you have to identify if they are: 1. Thinking of their own hand only; 2. Also considering what your hand might be; 3. Thinking about what hand you might think they might have; 4. Considering what hand you might think they think you have and so on.

Which all boils down to how much of an opponent's attention is being directed towards figuring out who has what.

I see Cloutier's book is around 5 dollars these days so if you haven't got a good basic tourney strategy sorted yet you could maybe use this as a starting point. My aim was long-term profit and this book provided a fairly simple but solid way to reach that goal.

 

[5TR8 FLUSH]

Have a plan for when you go next. Have one particular aspect of play in your mind to formulate and apply: Will I play tight? Will I play loose at the start then tight? Or vice-versa? Will I routinely raise pre-flop with AK, or sometimes, or never? Will I call raises with small pairs? Sometimes? Always? Never? Will I ever slow play big pairs pre-flop? Will I raise with medium pairs? Will I call a raise with A9 or worse? Choices of starting hands and how to play them is but one aspect of strategy you might want to pay attention to if you haven't decided on these things already.

Thank you for sharing, this makes a lot of sense. I didn't think this through in my late game. Since I was less then 10 BB, I wanted to start making moves to try to at least double up. Next time I going to try to come up with a strategy for different stages of the tourney, strategy with early game with many BB/few BB, middle tourney, near final table, and once in the money. It's a lot of work, but it's something I would like to develop because I would like to continue playing live tourney's and start cashing. I believe I can improve live game. I do like to mix up my game between tight and loose, but would like to improve in being more aggressive. I guess find a balance that works for me.

Ah, now here is where you can go the extra mile. Learn how to relax on demand. Find some material on relaxation techniques and use them at the tables.

This sounds great, I'm going to look into some relaxation techniques, including the one you shared and try to find something that works for me. Something I also realized was my betting pattern was the same or very similar when I had strong hands. I was mostly getting small pots, besides one double up in early stages.

The Theory of Poker is an excellent choice as it's a good guide to understanding many important concepts.

I started reading the first few pages and so far, I find it interesting. Not much to share yet.

I see Cloutier's book is around 5 dollars these days so if you haven't got a good basic tourney strategy sorted yet you could maybe use this as a starting point. My aim was long-term profit and this book provided a fairly simple but solid way to reach that goal.

I'll look into this book since it seems like it will be most helpful.

Thanks again

 

[samsmoot]

You have a great attitude which will go a long way towards improving your play. I'd guess that at least 50% of regular poker players in my neck of the woods have never even seen a poker book, let alone studied one. And so you can pretty much get to about the same standard as a non-studious veteran player within months of reguar playing of touneys. I played around 3 times a week for 3 months to get to that stage, but it still took me another 3 months to make it into the money.

But I'll mention again that it's wrong to focus on 'winning money'. Correct play is where you focus should be.

 

[5TR8 FLUSH]

I decided to go play yesterday in a live tourney and didn't do well. I had JC3C in big blind (3 limped, I checked) and flop came 10 4 X with two clubs. Person sitting to my right (SB) bet about half pot, I called and the person sitting to my (UTG) called also, and other folded. Turn came, no club, all three of us checked. River came and I missed my flush draw, person to my left(SB) checked. At this point pot was about 2000, and I had about 1600 chips left so I decided to shove. UTG folds, SB thinks for a second, then calls and flips over 10 4 off suit. Again another play at the wrong time.

I had lost about half my chips on these two hands. I have A 2 off suit on the button, 7 players limped and we saw flop. A 7 5, someone bet about 1/3 pot and 4 of us called. Turn came a 2 (Rainbow board, and I had two pair), we all checked (I felt I had best hand and wanted to trap). River came the 4, someone bet about 1/4 pot, the other two people folded, I had a strong feeling I was beat(seemed like a value bet), but called because of the small bet size. Other player shows A 3 and made straight on the river.

Other hand I was in the cut off with 8 10 suited, I raised 2 1/2 X and got two calls (BB, UTG +2). Flop came 6 9 J (rainbow). I C-bet about 1/3 pot, BB calls, other player folds. Turn came X, we both checked. River came an 8 (which gave me pair of 8's), but I decided to check as did BB. He shows his cards 9 10 off suit. I think if I would have bet turn, then shoved the river, BB may have folded his hands.

A few things I noticed was that I was playing a lot of hands early, and I was playing to passive post flop. I'm going to try and change up my game a bit to not play so scared. I'm going to play more patient, tighter, and when I do, bet on the turn when I feel strong.

Something I liked that I read in "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky are these two quotes (both on page 6). I found this motivating.

"a good player develops the patience to wait for the right situations to play a pot and develops the discipline to release a hand he judges to be second best"

"It's easy to get steamed, or disgruntled, or discouraged, when your losing. However, you must be disciplined enough to play every hand correctly, regardless of how you are doing."

Any feedback/advice would be appreciated.

I played around 3 times a week for 3 months to get to that stage, but it still took me another 3 months to make it into the money.

Thanks Sam for continuing to share. I've gone 5 times in just over a month, hopefully soon I'll improve my game and discipline to make it deeper in a tournament. Next tournament might be Monday morning.

 

[samsmoot]

I'll take a better look at the hands when I get chance, but a quick skim suggests impatience. Tight-aggressive may be the way to go right now, so you won't be caught out so easily.

Take your missed flush draw, for instance - if that were AK suited in the same position then you could have played it differently. You still would probably have lost the hand, given the same flop, but how about if you had shoved on the flop and/or turn? IF you intend to see a draw to the end, then is it better to call until you miss it then have a problem on the river, or bet, hoping to eithr hit/miss or GET YOUR OPPONENTS TO FOLD? IF you are playing flush draws then don't. Not much, anyway. Do you know how often you will hit or miss them? If not you need to look into it.

In this hand, is there SOME chance that 2 Pair would have folded to your early all-in? I'd say 'possibly'. Are you aware that it takes a better hand to call a bet than it does to make a bet? Two pair is a hand that MIGHT fold to pressure, especially as their betting was on the weak side, suggesting a slight lack of confidence in their hand, perhaps? Depends on the player, as that's unlikely to be the case - but I've seen players lacking confidence in pocket Kings, so you never know. Position and chip size would be vital in this equation: IF you lead out with a big bet after SB checks the SB will see what the other players do. If that player were to the left of you, and you bet large, if they then called there could be a reraise to their left. So your bet would be using the 'leverage' of the possible reraise. In this case 2 pair was unlikely to have folded. They are only beat with an x making you a set, which if they don't believe you have they'll obviously call you down.

I have for you something very pertinent: playing in an unraised pot is VERY DANGEROUS! As is expecting any blind position hand to go well. Hands can't be defined in an unraised pot, so anyone can have anything. In the situation above checking/folding on the river would have been best once you missed your draw. Your bet must have appeared 'unbelievable' to your opponent, I guess.

Which takes me to chip stack: you had 1600 chips left: Q. What is the smallest number of chips you need to be able to win money in a poker tournament? A. One. This relates to chip value, which I'll try and elaborate on when I have time.

 

[samsmoot]

I had lost about half my chips on these two hands. I have A 2 off suit on the button (A clear fold IMO because of the difficulty of being able to play such a hand well), 7 players limped and we saw flop. A 7 5, someone bet about 1/3 pot and 4 of us called. Turn came a 2 (Rainbow board, and I had two pair), we all checked (I felt I had best hand and wanted to trap Really? You should have bet). River came the 4, someone bet about 1/4 pot, the other two people folded, I had a strong feeling I was beat(seemed like a value bet), but called because of the small bet size Fold next time - so many ways you could be losing, and the river bet is screaming, 'value'.. Other player shows A 3 and made straight on the river. Happens.

Other hand I was in the cut off with 8 10 suited, I raised 2 1/2 X Wrong! That's OK for limit play, but not for TAG HE IMO.and got two calls (BB, UTG +2). Flop came 6 9 J (rainbow). I C-bet Checking would have been OK about 1/3 pot, BB calls, other player folds. Turn came X, we both checked. River came an 8 (which gave me pair of 8's), but I decided to check as did BB. He shows his cards 9 10 off suit. I think if I would have bet turn, then shoved the river, BB may have folded his hands. Checking it down from the turn onwards wasn't a bad play, unless you were confident you could represent that you had a jack.

A few things I noticed was that I was playing a lot of hands early, and I was playing to passive post flop. Not too bad an idea at the time - the blinds are cheaper and you need to be involved so as to get some experience I'm going to try and change up my game a bit to not play so scared. I'm going to play more patient, tighter, and when I do, bet on the turn when I feel strong. Perfect!

Something I liked that I read in "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky are these two quotes (both on page 6). I found this motivating.

"a good player develops the patience to wait for the right situations to play a pot and develops the discipline to release a hand he judges to be second best" Good advice.

"It's easy to get steamed, or disgruntled, or discouraged, when your losing. However, you must be disciplined enough to play every hand correctly, regardless of how you are doing." That's true, so play 'correctly' rather than with an aim to be 'winning money'.

Thanks Sam for continuing to share. I've gone 5 times in just over a month, hopefully soon I'll improve my game and discipline to make it deeper in a tournament. Next tournament might be Monday morning.

Best of luck to you, but have a plan of some kind. Concentrate on one, and only one, aspect of your game. So, it could be paying attention to your position, for example. How that would be important during any particular hand, say. And look at what other players do from different positions. Some may be raising too often in late position, for instance A tight player who raises from the BB would demand respect, whereas a later position loose-aggressive player not so much. If you are to the left of the LAG you have position on them, so a call might be good here if your hand has good potential, or if you wanted to try a bluff - which you shouldn't because you can't bluff a bluffer.

A mid-table player is making too many pre-flop raises early on in the tourney, and other players are routinely folding. If in the small blind, you might reraise with nothing and that player would likely fold. The BB is in your way but if they reraise your reraise you can always fold.

Be more inclined to play good hands in good position. High cards and medium pairs mainly, with the odd suited Ace thrown in. Hardly ever call in the blind positions. Try and be in the pot with poor players seated in bad position, maybe even with substandard hands. An early raise from a player who will bet with any Ace can be called on the button pre-flop with something like a KJ. If you happen to hit either card a pot-sized pot should take it down if the first player checks when no Ace comes.

Play the hands you like strongly unless your position dictates otherwise. Medium pairs can be called from any position and then are easy to play if you hit a set. A call from mid-table with AJ is going to be tricker if you get action fom later position players, and whether you hit or not. With the medium pair in your hand it's simple: if you don't hit a set, check and fold. With AJ you can easily make a wrong move unless on the button.