Does "I'm gonna call" = "I Call"?

Four Dogs

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I'm playing a double board bomb pot. I'm heads up v a player that called the flop then checked the turn and river. I bet $40 with 2 pair At on the bottom and Top pair Ten on the top board. The other player says "I'm gonna call". I turned over my hand and said "I think I may be good on both boards. The other player then folds. And says I didn't call, I was just thinking about it. The dealer agreed that" I'm going to call is not a declaration to call.
 
maronza1

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I have never played live poker, but why would someone say I'm gonna call in the first place, and secondly say I didn't call...
 
YLAN

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Weird that the dealer agrees. That's a call! Call for the floor manager & have the DEI-hired dealer fired.
 
Andyreas

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I'm not a native speaker but it's the same for me as well.

But my question:
Why did you flip over your cards before he actually made the call?
 
Four Dogs

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I didn't feel like making a scene so I just let it go. I had been chatting with him for a while and he didn't seem like he was intentionally angle shooting. If this had been a tournament I for sure would have called the floor.
 
G0930

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That is weird... im gonna call should be a clear message
When I go to the Casino and say " Ich werde mitgehen/ callen " then this is a clear declaration and I wouldn't be permitted to not pay the call even if I muck the cards
 
Four Dogs

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I'm not a native speaker but it's the same for me as well.

But my question:
Why did you flip over your cards before he actually made the call?
I was obligated to show first because I made the bet.
 
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fundiver199

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The thing is, even if he said "I call", they can not force him to put chips into the pot. So u have to protect yourself by not showing your cards, until his chips are in the pot. Its an angleshot, and maybe he can get banned from the casino, if he does it again.
 
puzzlefish

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Don't show your cards until the chips have gone in the middle. Even better, not before the dealer acknowledges that it is your turn to act (to show your cards).
 
YLAN

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The thing is, even if he said "I call", they can not force him to put chips into the pot.
They can because verbal "action" is binding... which is why he auto showed his cards.
 
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G0930

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The thing is, even if he said "I call", they can not force him to put chips into the pot. So u have to protect yourself by not showing your cards, until his chips are in the pot. Its an angleshot, and maybe he can get banned from the casino, if he does it again.
Actually yes they can .
Saying I call and then denying to pay would result in a ban in any serious casino
 
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fundiver199

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Saying I call and then denying to pay would result in a ban in any serious casino
Yes they can ban the player, but they cant legally force the player to pay. At least thats what Bart Hansson from Crushlivepoker say, and I consider him to be a leading expert on low stakes live cash games. So the advice is to protect yourself by not showing your cards prematurely. There was also a recent call to Crushlivepoker, where someone misread their hand and mucked the winner. So the general advice is, that if in any dought at all, just hold onto your cards, until the dealer ask you to show them, and never muck a hand, that got to showdown. Its not that important to keep other players guessing about, what you had.
 
PoKeRFoRNiA

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I know this opinion is not gonna stick well but its not a call. Its a call when he pushes his chips, flicks in the chips, or announces and dealer throws the call puck onto his stack.

Its shady but if they say "im gonna call", its not 100% confirmed.

Im gonna go work out tonight. And then some thought or plan got in the way and i ended up not doing it.
Im gonna sleep immediately. But I had to check my phone and then I ended up not sleeping immediately because I had some issues I had to take care of.

See the difference between Im gonna call and I call?

This is why its always safe to verify with the dealer. When u ask the dealer and dealer confirms the call, they usually throw the call puck.
 
smallfrie

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I think if he says that before you complete your bet then not a call but if he says it after you complete your bet it is a call... BUT next time on any non-standard verbal action get clarification from the dealer and player. Like saying; is that a call?

This was an angle... so call the floor, even if they let him get away with it, they are probably going to give him the you are on notice speech and he won't try any other bs angles for a while... at least until shift change for the floor person :)

BTW, I have seen this angle used many times but never heard "I'm gonna call," usually it is the same scenario but they just announce what they have and flip over their hand and then the bettor flips their winning cards and the angler folds and the bettor says wtf that wasn't a call, and the dealer says nope that was not a call, or the angler actually has a better hand and wins without ever really calling.
 
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fundiver199

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Its shady but if they say "im gonna call", its not 100% confirmed.
I have to agree with that. If someone say "I think im gonna call" or "I think I have to call", they are just thinking loud and perhaps trying to study your reaction, but they are not actually calling (yet). "Im gonna call" is so close to "I call", that its an angle and should result in a warning. But its still not "I call". In the more funny department there is a hand, where someone was bluffing the river and got raised. However he thought, his opponent had only called and congratulated him "good call", but the opponent thought, he said "I call." They eventually figured it out and moved on to the next hand :)

 
pirateglenn

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I play a lot of live poker and can confirm from my experience that "im gonna call" is an indication and not a decision.
I have seen your experience live before and its not uncommon and has caused some conflict but as others have said - sometimes its to look for a tell or a reaction or sometimes its just someone with a serious weed up their butt who is tilting and doesnt want to keep folding and is stringing it out, there are lots of permutations here, bottom line is, any action you take is your own action and i would never bet on the aim of someone calling, play your own game.
 
Luvepoker

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My opinion is that would be a call. I would have called the floor on that one as well. You may not win your argument, but you would have been told the rules and at least known if your correct or not. Either way that is a shady move by them.
 
Jillychemung

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I'm playing a double board bomb pot. I'm heads up v a player that called the flop then checked the turn and river. I bet $40 with 2 pair At on the bottom and Top pair Ten on the top board. The other player says "I'm gonna call". I turned over my hand and said "I think I may be good on both boards. The other player then folds. And says I didn't call, I was just thinking about it. The dealer agreed that" I'm going to call is not a declaration to call.
This is a word-play angleshot meant to get you to act or provide info about your hand. What a dealer or floor does in this instance is very inconsistent; it should be a call and a warning about the angleshot but as you experienced it often is not called that way.
 
dannystanks

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Wow I hate angle shooters! This makes me laugh! Next time call the floor immediately don’t even hesitate.
 
pirateglenn

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In real time - the worst thing that would happen here if you called it and asked for Floor - would be a warning, a repeated action could be different, i think this would be fairly universal but interested to know if anyone has seen different, its one of those - you have to be there or see it with your own eyes situations i feel.
 
PoKeRFoRNiA

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Its an ugly word angling. But now, I realized I shouldnt even say "Im gonna call".
3 weeks ago, this girl tried to angle me.
Cash game 1/2
I was dealt Aces. 1 limp utg. Utg +1 raises to $15. I raise from cutoff to $60. Utg folds. Utg+1 calls. Pot is now $138 minus rake
Flop A K J. I bet out $100. She calls. Pot is now 338
Turn is 9. I bet out $200. She calls.
River is Q. She shoves all in for my $300. While this is most likely call, I was thinking if she can possibly have 10 but way more chance she doesnt than having it. Then she opened her mouth and told me she will show if I fold. This automatically gave me a tell that she doesnt have a straight. I told her "u r gonna have to show me anyways bcz im gonna call" and then flicked in my chip. Dealer then throws in the call puck. She then says"I told u i was gonna show if u fold. What did u have?" I told her she shows first. She rolls over KQs for two pairs and says "well, i dont have a straight but i have two pairs." I told her "no good. I got a set of Aces." Entire pot swiped towards me. Such a great feeling. She then asks "u didnt see the straight on the board?" I then tell her "there was a straight on the board?"
At least when i said im gonna call, i flicked in the chip. But I guess saying im gonna call can be seen as angling now after reading this.
 
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Possibly also through secondary confirmation by the bailiff as the master
 
SpanRmonka

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Its an ugly word angling. But now, I realized I shouldnt even say "Im gonna call".
3 weeks ago, this girl tried to angle me.
Cash game 1/2
I was dealt Aces. 1 limp utg. Utg +1 raises to $15. I raise from cutoff to $60. Utg folds. Utg+1 calls. Pot is now $138 minus rake
Flop A K J. I bet out $100. She calls. Pot is now 338
Turn is 9. I bet out $200. She calls.
River is Q. She shoves all in for my $300. While this is most likely call, I was thinking if she can possibly have 10 but way more chance she doesnt than having it. Then she opened her mouth and told me she will show if I fold. This automatically gave me a tell that she doesnt have a straight. I told her "u r gonna have to show me anyways bcz im gonna call" and then flicked in my chip. Dealer then throws in the call puck. She then says"I told u i was gonna show if u fold. What did u have?" I told her she shows first. She rolls over KQs for two pairs and says "well, i dont have a straight but i have two pairs." I told her "no good. I got a set of Aces." Entire pot swiped towards me. Such a great feeling. She then asks "u didnt see the straight on the board?" I then tell her "there was a straight on the board?"
At least when i said im gonna call, i flicked in the chip. But I guess saying im gonna call can be seen as angling now after reading this.
I don't think this is an angle, unless there was a proper time gap between saying you're gonna show me anyway cos I'm gonna call and you flicking your chip in. Its only an angle if you wait to see her reaction, or potentially turn over her cards. If you say it vaguely simultaneously as putting chips in the pot, then its just a clear call!
 
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In my opinion, you should not have shown your hand until he placed at least one chip in the middle after saying he is going to call. I think it's a bit of a dick move to say you are going to call and then fold.. but you should not trust anyone's word in poker ;)
 
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