Playing AQ.

[najisami]

Open shoving for 50BB is a terrible play. You will generally only get called by hands, that crush you, and the rest of the time you pick up a very small pot risking your entire stack

In that situation, getting called with a hand that crushes me will (most of the time) only come from the SB, which I'm not worried about. The BB can call with any marginal hand or even worse and doubling up at that point would be very beneficial to my stack. In case he also wakes up with a monster, so be it. I'm not playing to min cash.
At least, that's how I'm looking at it.

 

[fundiver199]

In that situation, getting called with a hand that crushes me will (most of the time) only come from the SB, which I'm not worried about.

But its still a real disaster, when BB wakes up with a hand and call. There is a reason, why the guidelines say to not open shove with more than 15BB. Sure there are times to bend these guidelines, but this is not such a time. You have the best seat at the table and one of the only two, where you have position on the chip bully. And by open jamming you take away your own positional advantage and his chance to make any sort of postflop mistakes. This play would make a lot more sense, if you were shorter like 18BB, you were in HJ, "chip bully" were on BTN, and everyone else were 15BB or less. Then you can go for a long-ball open shove to take away the play from the chip bully and force him to either wait for a hand or make a poor call.

The BB can call with any marginal hand or even worse and doubling up at that point would be very beneficial to my stack.

Ok so now you are saying, its a shove for value? Thats only the case, if BB is an incredibly poor player. Maybe you can sometimes get called by worse in a freeroll, but in regular MTTs its extremely rare, that this will ever happen. And thats the whole problem, because you want him to get involved with hands, you dominate, so you can get value postflop. Like maybe flop comes QT4, and he will pay you off with KQ, QJ, Q9, AT, KT etc. Or he will try to bluff you with air, if he is as aggressive, as you say.

In case he also wakes up with a monster, so be it. I'm not playing to min cash.

The main issue with open jamming for 50BB is not, that it increase the risk of busting. The main issue is, that it miss out on value and allow BB to play close to perfect.

 

[maronza1]

I am not shoving in this situation, i just open to 2.5 or 3bb, and call to BB 3bet not exceeding 12bb reraise because i still want to be in the money. if i lose that hand i would change my style of play to TAG. If i flop top pair and or a straight draw i am on the go with jamming

 

[najisami]

But its still a real disaster, when BB wakes up with a hand and call. There is a reason, why the guidelines say to not open shove with more than 15BB. Sure there are times to bend these guidelines, but this is not such a time. You have the best seat at the table and one of the only two, where you have position on the chip bully. And by open jamming you take away your own positional advantage and his chance to make any sort of postflop mistakes. This play would make a lot more sense, if you were shorter like 18BB, you were in HJ, "chip bully" were on BTN, and everyone else were 15BB or less. Then you can go for a long-ball open shove to take away the play from the chip bully and force him to either wait for a hand or make a poor call.

Ok so now you are saying, its a shove for value? Thats only the case, if BB is an incredibly poor player. Maybe you can sometimes get called by worse in a freeroll, but in regular MTTs its extremely rare, that this will ever happen. And thats the whole problem, because you want him to get involved with hands, you dominate, so you can get value postflop. Like maybe flop comes QT4, and he will pay you off with KQ, QJ, Q9, AT, KT etc. Or he will try to bluff you with air, if he is as aggressive, as you say.

The main issue with open jamming for 50BB is not, that it increase the risk of busting. The main issue is, that it miss out on value and allow BB to play close to perfect.

As said above, it doesn't depend more on my stack size, but on what I've seen him doing and what he's been calling with.
That's not to say that you're wrong, but I know that you know enough about poker to accept that playing the right way and especially using GTO at any table does not cut it, even in serious MTTs. I've seen people shoving and calling jams with 22 and any Ace in $215 buy-ins. Many players get in those tourneys with tickets...
Some intuition is necessary too, depending on the dynamic of the table and the players you're facing.
Great insight and analysis though as always, thank you very much.

 

[Pabloro10321]

It's a very difficult question, you have the possibility of doubling against most BB's hands, but they can also pay you with bad cards and beat you, because you are a player who has too many chips and too little judgment.

 

[fundiver199]

I've seen people shoving and calling jams with 22 and any Ace in $215 buy-ins. Many players get in those tourneys with tickets...

Sure. But most likely not for 50BB and not near the bubble. At least I can not even remember, when I last saw something like that, even in a $3.3 or $4.4 MTT. When the money is near, even the worst players tend to suddenly know at least a little bit how to play poker. And this is why, for me personally, I will always lean towards assuming, that my opponents use a somewhat reasonable strategy, unless I have really strong evidence of the opposite

 

[thetick33]

Hello everyone ,

We all know how tricky JJ could be. But what about AQ?
Let's approach this through an example:

You're on the button, it's folded to you, and you got dealt AQ off. You're deep in a nice MTT, almost bubble time and you're sitting with about 50 blinds. The SB is a tight player, hanging in there with 12 BBs, but the BB is the chip leader at the table (87 BBs) and has been very aggressively active for a while.
A lot of players would say that folding is out of question, which leaves you with raising or shoving.
I lean towards jamming even though I know that I don't have much fold equity with that guy. Of course there are several factors to consider. That's why I would like to hear what most of you guys would do and why. Thank you .

basically your not sharing some facts...bb is chip leader...very active but the cards youve seen? how aggressive was he? is he catching cards and lucky....shoving here is A NO ....12 blinds id raise to 3.4 say see if you get a call or a shove but the aggro...if he shoves seeing i still got 45 blinds and not to the money id simply hope to change seats soon lol...or catch a bigger hand...I see people play aq very differently ive written up a post and got no return so great subject najisami and great win today in league !! Congrats great way to start the league and your team up....I want the 12 bb's to call if possible and ill stay out of chip leaders case unless your saying he is betting every hand then sure i want him to shove ill dance and call...means his range is everything and yes ive seen that in play here on cc already certain guys..Long run that will crush a bankroll...If he takes you out? Goto next game knowing you did right he either had a better hand unlucky for you or hes luckboxing again unlucky for you move on knowing your playing this guy right in long run youll own them

 

[thetick33]

Yes and so what? A "tournament life" is not the life of your first born baby. And even if the chip leader is very active, he is probably not always calling a 4-bet jam for 50 bigs. So you have a lot of fold equity, especially if he is out of line with his 3-betting. One of the biggest leaks in MTTs is to be overly afraid of busting on the bubble. The biggest winners in MTTs dont care about this at all, because they understand, that its a long term game, and the big money does not come from min-cashing.

Yes if he call. But as mentioned he will not always call a 4-bet jam for 50 bigs. He is trying to "bully" smaller stacks, and the way to do this is by betting and raising not by calling. At least if he is any sort of player.

But if he has premium hands "a lot", when he 3-bet, then it wont happen very often. And then you can min-raise and see a cheap flop most of the time. Nobody can 3-bet "a lot" and then also show up with premiums "a lot". Its not mathematically possible, so there are only two options here:

1) Either he is 3-betting a normal range, and then you can call his 3-bet with AQ and see a flop. And if you miss, you dont have to put in the rest of your chips. Or:

2) He is 3-betting "a lot", and then you can 4-bet jam and get him to fold a lot. Which will usually also get him to 3-bet you less in future hands, because you have send a message, that you are not a pushover.

At the end of the day we cant be so overly afraid of busting on the bubble, that we wont even play AQ, when it folds to us on BTN, just because one of the players in the blinds cover us. We can tighten up some like not playing J9 or K8, but AQ is waaaay to strong in a BTN vs. blind situation to not play the hand. Unless its a satellite of course.

copied both you talking cause agree with fun....one thing to look at is position if hes aggro how often is he out of position raising with the 3 bets etc...is it every time??? then no for me id not bet 3.4 there id go 5.2 i want him to simply call i check he bets i reraise double or triple play back to him is what fun said in last post after this and yes is ALWAYS a way to figure out a player...its not about aq really play the player not the cards

 

[Mr.$t0k]

I think we must raise 3bb and then call if BB 3 bet, and then according to the situation

 

[antonis32123]

AQ is also tricky , like JJ . So Many times I played only to realise I was against AK , or a pocket pair that won . AQ , at least online , cannot be trusted or be played the same way like at live poker .