Playing AQ.

[najisami]

Hello everyone ,

We all know how tricky JJ could be. But what about AQ?
Let's approach this through an example:

You're on the button, it's folded to you, and you got dealt AQ off. You're deep in a nice MTT, almost bubble time and you're sitting with about 50 blinds. The SB is a tight player, hanging in there with 12 BBs, but the BB is the chip leader at the table (87 BBs) and has been very aggressively active for a while.
A lot of players would say that folding is out of question, which leaves you with raising or shoving.
I lean towards jamming even though I know that I don't have much fold equity with that guy. Of course there are several factors to consider. That's why I would like to hear what most of you guys would do and why. Thank you .

 

[dannystanks]

This is an easy fold for me. With 50 BBs I want to get paid. Let the aggressive chip leader do his thing. Picking up 12 BBs right now doesn’t mean a whole lot. Loosing 50 to an aggressive chip leader means everything.

 

[najisami]

This is an easy fold for me. With 50 BBs I want to get paid. Let the aggressive chip leader do his thing. Picking up 12 BBs right now doesn’t mean a whole lot. Loosing 50 to an aggressive chip leader means everything.

That's one way of looking at it Danny. If you're only looking to "Get paid" like you said, folding, staying out of trouble is the best decision there.
However, I know a lot of players who look at it from a different perspective. They aim to win, or at least reach the top 3 positions where the money is. So in a situation like this, they prefer gambling, hoping to chip up from the aggressive player or at least pick up the blinds and the antes, let alone if the SB decides to put in his 12 blinds....
Thank you for the input .

 

[dannystanks]

Yeah I think for me it really comes down to that big blind. He/she is the real issue here for me in this spot. If I know I am better than they are at post flop then maybe I do something different. Being that they are aggressive means they could still be a bad aggressive player and we could have the edge in this spot. If I’m up against a pro forget about it, easy fold because they are going to make it tough for us post flop.
Bubble play live in an MTT is a fun spot to be in. It might not sound like it but 50 BBs in a live tournament after 12 hours of play is huge. Good luck everyone!

 

[neptunas888]

C AQ I wouldn’t push on the bubble, raise 3 blinds, and fold the aggressor at 3 bet

 

[puzzlefish]

Why jam with 50 bb? Pretty sure that's not recommended anywhere. Especially with AQo.

 

[Station_Master]

At 50bb, this is a clear min open. If the big stack 3bets (to say 7bb), then you can shove all-in, if he is 3betting wide.
Obviously if the SB shoves and BB folds then you are calling off.
If the big stack calls then see the flop and take it from there.

 

[najisami]

C AQ I wouldn’t push on the bubble, raise 3 blinds, and fold the aggressor at 3 bet

Well, losing those 3 blinds is precisely why I prefer pushing since I would have more fold equity or just fold.

 

[najisami]

If the big stack 3bets (to say 7bb), then you can shove all-in, if he is 3betting wide

Then your tournament life would be at risk. With your AQ, he could always have 30 to 40% chance to beat you with any 2 cards. let alone if he wakes up with AK or better, and I've seen that happen a lot.

 

[Andyreas]

Then your tournament life would be at risk. With your AQ, he could always have 30 to 40% chance to beat you with any 2 cards. let alone if he wakes up with AK or better, and I've seen that happen a lot.

But it would be exactly the same situation if you jammed directly?

He'd fold the junk and call with cards you're already behind with.

 

[najisami]

Why jam with 50 bb? Pretty sure that's not recommended anywhere. Especially with AQo.

It certainly depends on the kind of player(s) you're facing and on what you want to accomplish with your move.
If you raise, you are sure the aggressive BB will put pressure on you by 3-betting or even shoving.

 

[najisami]

But it would be exactly the same situation if you jammed directly?

He'd fold the junk and call with cards you're already behind with.

True. It's a real dilemma. I still prefer jamming though. At least I have some fold equity in case he has junk. Whilst if I raise and he shoves, I might fold and lose my 2.5 or 3 BBs.

 

[Andyreas]

True. It's a real dilemma. I still prefer jamming though. At least I have some fold equity in case he has junk. Whilst if I raise and he shoves, I might fold and lose my 2.5 or 3 BBs.

While I do see your point, I personally would never fold to a 3-bet of an aggressive chip leader with AQ.

I'd either call and potentially loose a bit more or jam and then hope to pick up 7 BBs in case he calls with weaker holdings.

If he wakes up with something better, than unlucky but still correctly played. And your AQ will still have some decent equity, except if it's AA Or AK.

 

[odonob]

AQ and AK can be very difficult to play, I have lost with both many times, they are a kind of a bad beat combo oftentimes.

 

[Station_Master]

Then your tournament life would be at risk. With your AQ, he could always have 30 to 40% chance to beat you with any 2 cards. let alone if he wakes up with AK or better, and I've seen that happen a lot.

Well so what? The objective is not to min cash.

He is not going to call any 2 cards, you will pick up the 10bb or so in the middle alot. If he does call sometimes you will be flipping or crushed, if you do win then you will be in a great position to make a deep run.

 

[Dimidrol2]

I will reveal my secret AQ this is May's least favorite top card and I have already decided for myself that I almost always play with it through a call or fold. I would not push on the bubble and easily made a fold.

 

[najisami]

I personally would never fold to a 3-bet of an aggressive chip leader with AQ

Even a shove ?

 

[Martin]

A lot depends on what range you might have the CL on and if you've seen a few of the hands he's been aggresive with. I'm an old nit so first base for me would be getting in the money as we're so close to the bubble, If we have enough info then shove because if raising xBB then the tight SB may just like his hand enough to shove their 12 BB's cutting hard into your stack if they pick it up.

 

[najisami]

A lot depends on what range you might have the CL on and if you've seen a few of the hands he's been aggresive with.

That's a crucial point Martin.
If I had seen him (Often enough) raising and 3-betting with marginal and garbage hands, I might lean towards raising with the intention of calling if he shoves and shoving if he 3-bets.
But against a reasonable aggressive player, I would raise just in case he has garbage and folds, but certainly give up if he comes over the top.
As to the SB, it would be an easy call of course, that is if the BB does not isolate.

 

[najisami]

Well so what? The objective is not to min cash

That's a very important factor that influences the decision to be made.
"The objective is not to min cash" is the way to go in MTTs, that's why I prefer shoving in that situation.
However, some players prefer to hang there till the money and it's understandable too for a couple of reasons. It could be that their BR would go to nothing if they don't get that min payout, or that they suddenly got tired already and figure that they could not go all the way ... We never know.

 

[Andyreas]

Even a shove ?

Fair question.

I was assuming a regular 3-bet size which wouldn't be a jam for 50 BBs eff.

And as Martin said, it would also depend on the range I put / seen him do this with.

If it's on the LAG end and my AQ is suited, then leaning towards a call, otherwise towards a fold.

But as always, we only have like 10-30s to decide, so I'd somehow go with my feelings/read in this situation. 🤓

 

[fundiver199]

Then your tournament life would be at risk.

Yes and so what? A "tournament life" is not the life of your first born baby. And even if the chip leader is very active, he is probably not always calling a 4-bet jam for 50 bigs. So you have a lot of fold equity, especially if he is out of line with his 3-betting. One of the biggest leaks in MTTs is to be overly afraid of busting on the bubble. The biggest winners in MTTs dont care about this at all, because they understand, that its a long term game, and the big money does not come from min-cashing.

With your AQ, he could always have 30 to 40% chance to beat you with any 2 cards.

Yes if he call. But as mentioned he will not always call a 4-bet jam for 50 bigs. He is trying to "bully" smaller stacks, and the way to do this is by betting and raising not by calling. At least if he is any sort of player.

let alone if he wakes up with AK or better, and I've seen that happen a lot.

But if he has premium hands "a lot", when he 3-bet, then it wont happen very often. And then you can min-raise and see a cheap flop most of the time. Nobody can 3-bet "a lot" and then also show up with premiums "a lot". Its not mathematically possible, so there are only two options here:

1) Either he is 3-betting a normal range, and then you can call his 3-bet with AQ and see a flop. And if you miss, you dont have to put in the rest of your chips. Or:

2) He is 3-betting "a lot", and then you can 4-bet jam and get him to fold a lot. Which will usually also get him to 3-bet you less in future hands, because you have send a message, that you are not a pushover.

At the end of the day we cant be so overly afraid of busting on the bubble, that we wont even play AQ, when it folds to us on BTN, just because one of the players in the blinds cover us. We can tighten up some like not playing J9 or K8, but AQ is waaaay to strong in a BTN vs. blind situation to not play the hand. Unless its a satellite of course.

 

[najisami]

At the end of the day we cant be so overly afraid of busting on the bubble, that we wont even play AQ, when it folds to us on BTN, just because one of the players in the blinds cover us. We can tighten up some like not playing J9 or K8, but AQ is waaaay to strong in a BTN vs. blind situation to not play the hand. Unless its a satellite of course

I n the 1st post, I said I lean towards shoving, did not say afraid of busting on the bubble. Agree about 9J, K8 and alike.

 

[fundiver199]

I n the 1st post, I said I lean towards shoving, did not say afraid of busting on the bubble. Agree about 9J, K8 and alike.

Open shoving for 50BB is a terrible play. You will generally only get called by hands, that crush you, and the rest of the time you pick up a very small pot risking your entire stack. What is the problem with just playing normal poker? Yes it can be a little uncomfortable to deal with a "chip bully" near the bubble. But this is part of the game, and its not, when everything is very comfortable and easy, that we make our money in poker.

So just deal with the situation and make the best decisions, you can. The bubble is not even, where the big money is at risk. A min-cash is typically less than twice the buyin, whereas payjumps on the final table can be many times the buyin depending on the field size. So if you cant handle a tough spot on the bubble, then how are you going to handle one on the final table, when you eventually get there?

 

[bablovod]

with this card, I prefer to see the flop without shoving it, because it's not a completed combination, and then discard it if something goes wrong