do you think poker is a sport?

[Monoxide]

Poker is as much a sport as Chess or Checkers, or backgammon even.

They are all just games, not sports. Sports are totally different.

Think of it like this, if a 86 year old man can play poker, but cannot even remotely compete at a similar level at say, Golf, then poker is not a sport. The essense of sports is that they are extreamly physical and you usually must be younger and strong to compete in them.

Poker though is just not a "physical" game in any way, shape or form. The 86 year old man could bust Phil Ivey in a tournament just as easy as a 26 year old man. Could the 86 year old beat tiger woods, or any pro golfer on the green? Fck no.

I guess that pretty much proves it, lol.

 

[jballer20]

well i dunno. it is a game not really a sport, but if nascar is a sport(another thing where you sit on your ass) then maybe poker is

 

[MATTYGIT]

This reminds me of a debate that I one had to argue about between Toys and Games. It was pretty in depth... like can part of a game be toys... it was bizarre.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

well i dunno. it is a game not really a sport, but if nascar is a sport(another thing where you sit on your ass) then maybe poker is

Nascar is a motorsport.

 

[iMaGiN.]

Not everything that shows on ESPN is a sport.

Poker is a card game; a gambling game. Even though it does require skill, it still has no recognition of being an actual sport as for example, basketball or football.

 

[RogueRivered]

Think of it like this, if a 86 year old man can play poker, but cannot even remotely compete at a similar level at say, Golf, then poker is not a sport. The essense of sports is that they are extreamly physical and you usually must be younger and strong to compete in them.

The thing that gets me about your argument is, what about the coach? A coach can be 86 years old and direct a football team using his strategies, similar to a poker player using strategies. Is he not participating in the sport just because he isn't a player? Could young and strong athletes compete successfully on a team without a coach? I don't think so. So the requirement that you have to have some level of athleticism and youth to participate doesn't make something a sport or not a sport.

What about horse racing, the sport of kings? Is it a sport? Who are the players? Only the jockies? I don't think so. There's a lot more that goes into it than who is riding the horse -- owners, trainers, vets, etc. They may not be athletes, but they are participating in a sport.

I think a poker player is kind of like the coach, his cards and chips are the players, and he uses his stamina and concentration to try to outplay (and outlast) his opponents. Is it any wonder that the young players do better in the long, grueling tournaments? Of course not. It does take a physical toll on your body, even if you're not an athlete.

 

[srt27300]

Hi,
In my opinion, it can be considered as a sport ...
When I see chess competition, 8-pool competition, Kurly competition, etc. I don't think it is fundamentaly more physical than poker.
For instance, in Chess competition, just thinking about the next shots ... like poker. And I would also say that in poker the body attitude can indicates to other players what you can have (even for those who are playing with glasses )
But I'm OK that maybe all these sport are not in the same level of muscle-needs, and maybe there should have 2 different kind of sports ...

Cheeers
Stef

 

[hipshot55]

Not. Its a game. On the other hand, which I have had great debates about, Nascar is in my opinion. Anyone that can drive a car 200mph for long periods of time in sometimes unbearable conditions, has to be in good physical health. Not only in mind, but in body. But that is my opinion. Gl all at the tables.

Absolutely it is, because if it isn't then the "Sport of Kings" (horse racing) isn't either, as the driver is as vital to the competition in NASCAR as the jockey is in a horse race.

And FWIW, way back when I was a young pup, ABC Sports used to have a competition every Spring where they would bring together athletes from a number of different sports; i.e. football, basketball, baseball, etc. and run them through a series of athletic competitions. The guy that won the first season's competition was a British gran prix driver.

As to the original question, I don't believe poker, backgammon, chess, scrabble or any of the other myriad of competitions mentioned are sports. They are games.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

The thing that gets me about your argument is, what about the coach? A coach can be 86 years old and direct a football team using his strategies, similar to a poker player using strategies. Is he not participating in the sport just because he isn't a player?..... The coach is not a participent in the actual physical competition. Although the coach is an imortant member of the team, he is not actually participating in any form of sport. A sport has to be both physical and competative. The competative part has to be within the boundarys of the pre defined rules of the sport. This means that whilst a coach may be physically active within training sessions, he is still not taking part in any form of sport. Therefore coaching is best defined as an activity.

.....owners, trainers, vets, etc. They may not be athletes, but they are participating in a sport... hell if we are going to include everybody.. I watch sport.. so I must be a part of it too... yes actually scrub what I said before.. I'm sporty .. I watch enough of it!!! LOL

I think a poker player is kind of like the coach, his cards and chips are the players, and he uses his stamina and concentration to try to outplay (and outlast) his opponents. Is it any wonder that the young players do better in the long, grueling tournaments? Of course not. It does take a physical toll on your body, even if you're not an athlete... Its a nice metaphore, but I dont think it would stand up in court. Sport is defined as "an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition " I dont think moving chips and lifting cards counts as physical exertion. Like I said earlier, Body Building isnt counted as a sport because although the training requires a lot of dedication and physical exertion, the actual competition element is not considered to require sufficient physical exertion and skill to meetthe critera for a sport. Hence it has never been allowed in the Olympics.

Its not a case of whether or not we feel X or Y should be sports, its whether or not X or Y meet the criteria for being clasified as sports. The definition of sport is "an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition" Things that meet this requirement can be classed as sports, things that dont cannot. It really is that simple.

So if anyone wants to make the case for poker being a sport, all they have to do is show where the physical exertion involved in poker is. It is ovbiously competative and a pre defined set of rules are adheared too. The physical exertion has to be a key factor in winning.. so playing poker whilst jogging would still not make it a sport.

Yet if you had a race at the end of each hand and the winner of the hand was only allowed to collect the pot if he won the race.. this would make poker a sport because it would then fufill the physical exertion and competativenes criteria of a sport (i.e the physical exertion has to be competative hence jogging whilst playing poker dosnt make it a sport because the jogging is not competative).

Or we can just have posts which shouild be titled.. "Ignoring the definition of sport... Poker is a sport because ________"

 

[orchidra]

The Oxford Dictionary states

Sport
1. n. amusement, dirversion, fun
2. pastime, game
5. v.i. dirvert oneself, take part in pastime.

So based on the above it must be a sport and all poker players are sports.

My Doctor tells me I should do more excerise and play more sport. I will now be able to report that I'm doing half what he recomends, but I don't know if it's doing my health any good. I'm developing RSI of the index (mouse clicking) finger. Too much on-line poker.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

The Oxford Dictionary states

Sport
1. n. amusement, dirversion, fun
2. pastime, game
5. v.i. dirvert oneself, take part in pastime.

So based on the above it must be a sport and all poker players are sports.

????

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/sport?view=uk

According to the website sport is defined as the following

sport



• noun 1 an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others. 2 [SIZE=-1]informal[/SIZE] a person who behaves in a good or specified way in response to teasing, defeat, etc. 3 success or pleasure derived from an activity such as hunting. 4 [SIZE=-1]dated[/SIZE] entertainment; fun. 5 [SIZE=-1]chiefly Austral./NZ[/SIZE] a friendly form of address, especially between unacquainted men. 6 [SIZE=-1]Biology[/SIZE] an animal or plant showing abnormal or striking variation from the parent type as a result of spontaneous mutation.
• verb 1 wear or display (a distinctive item). 2 amuse oneself or play in a lively way.
[SIZE=-1]— PHRASES[/SIZE] the sport of kings horse racing.
[SIZE=-1]— DERIVATIVES[/SIZE] sporter [SIZE=-1]noun[/SIZE]. [SIZE=-1]— ORIGIN[/SIZE] shortening of [SIZE=-1]DISPORT[/SIZE].

I think you may be referring to an old copy of the dictionary as point 4 of the definition seems to correlate to the definition you quoted. It is marked as dated, meaning that the word was historically used in this way but the definition has been amended or updated for modern English.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

Thought id also throw in the definitions of Activity and Game

activity

• noun ([SIZE=-1]pl.[/SIZE] activities) 1 a condition in which things are happening or being done. 2 busy or vigorous action or movement. 3 an action taken in pursuit of an objective. 4 a recreational pursuit. 5 the degree to which something displays its characteristic property or behaviour.



game1



• noun 1 an activity engaged in for amusement. 2 a form of competitive activity or sport played according to rules. 3 a complete episode or period of play, ending in a final result. 4 a single portion of play, forming a scoring unit within a game. 5 (games) a meeting for sporting contests. 6 the equipment used in playing a board game, computer game, etc. 7 a type of activity or business regarded as a game. 8 a secret plan or trick. 9 wild mammals or birds hunted for sport or food.
• adjective eager and willing to do something new or challenging: they were game for anything.
• verb play at games of chance for money.
[SIZE=-1]— PHRASES[/SIZE] ahead of the game ahead of one’s competitors or peers. beat someone at their own game use someone’s own methods to outdo them. the game is up the deception or crime is revealed or foiled. on the game [SIZE=-1]Brit.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]informal[/SIZE] working as a prostitute. play the game behave in a fair or honourable way; abide by the rules.
[SIZE=-1]— DERIVATIVES[/SIZE] gamely [SIZE=-1]adverb[/SIZE] gameness [SIZE=-1]noun[/SIZE] gamester [SIZE=-1]noun[/SIZE]. [SIZE=-1]— ORIGIN[/SIZE] Old English, amusement, fun.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

Oh and here is the definition of definition!! LOL

definition



• noun 1 a statement of the exact meaning of a word or the nature or scope of something. 2 the action or process of defining. 3 the degree of distinctness in outline of an object or image. [SIZE=-1]— PHRASES[/SIZE] by definition by its very nature; intrinsically. [SIZE=-1]— DERIVATIVES[/SIZE] definitional [SIZE=-1]adjective[/SIZE].

 

[Stu_Ungar]

Oh.. here is poker

poker2


• noun a card game in which the players bet on the value of the hands dealt to them, sometimes using bluff. [SIZE=-1]— ORIGIN[/SIZE] perhaps related to German pochen ‘to brag’, Pochspiel ‘bragging game’.



Notice it isn't defined as a 'card sport'

I never thought of quoting straight from the dictionary, orchidra that was pure genius!!

 

[RogueRivered]

I think what we do online playing poker is not a sport; maybe it's practice for a sport. But playing in a large event like the wsop is definitely a "spectator" sport, if not a sport in it's own right. I can't accept that something isn't "physical" just because it doesn't involve dumb muscle movements. High level brain activity is physical; how can you separate your brain from the rest of your body? Your body couldn't do anything on it's own without the brain. Look up physical in the dictionary, it has to do with the body. Since when is the brain not part of the body? Again, why are the winners usually the younger players? It's because their bodies (and brains) are better suited to supply the stamina required to play for 7 days straight.

 

[RogueRivered]

.....owners, trainers, vets, etc. They may not be athletes, but they are participating in a sport... hell if we are going to include everybody.. I watch sport.. so I must be a part of it too... yes actually scrub what I said before.. I'm sporty .. I watch enough of it!!! LOL

Lol, watching a sport is not participating in it or having any impact on the outcome. All the people I'm taking about actually have an effect on the outcome. Think pit crew in an auto race. They are part of the sport. They mess up, the team loses. The coach is part of the sport. He does a bad job, the team loses. He doesn't have to be on the field himself to impact the game. It's still a sport. Running around chasing a ball without rules and competition is not a sport. Playing frisbee on the beach as a non-competitive recreation is not a sport; playing Ultimate Frisbee is a sport. It all depends on the situation. Playing poker with your buddies once a week is not a sport; playing in a major tournament is a sport.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

^^^^

im loosing the will to live

 

[DKnight10]

(According to my definition of a sport)


Absolutely not.

A sport requires participation by athletes, Poker players are not athletes.
A sport requires physical talent. Sitting in a circle for long periods of time does not qualify as physical talent.

Poker is gambling.

I hate when people try to call everything under the sun a sport. Activities do not have to be sports to make them cool. Golf is not a sport but its very cool. Darts is not a sport. Billiards is not a sport. Poker is not a sport. They are all fun activities that require skill, but do not require athleticism. Thats why they are not sports.

This is the example I always use. If the world was having an international athletic competition, and they did not tell anyone what games the people would be competing in, would you send a poker player or a football player to represent your country? A golfer of a basketball player? Sports are played by athletes. Poker players and golfers are in no way athletes.

It doesn't take anything away from poker to not be called a sport. Lets just leave at a card game. There is nothing athletic about playing cards.

Uhmm... golf is most definitely a sport.

Poker, is not, don't see too many poker players getting athletic scholarships or anything.

 

[RogueRivered]

^^^^

im loosing the will to live

Glad I could have that effect on you.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

Glad I could have that effect on you.

haha

 

[jedimoose]

Im going with definitely not a sport. I might go with the word craft though. Would like to see that actual definition of that word. We (people) tend to change the actual true definition of words over time and turn it into what we believe it should be. Just because we all like poker so much doesnt make it any different then any other card game, board game etc.

 

[deight]

CHESS & POKER

I think tournament poker is a sport for the same reason chess are.

 

[angelaus]

If bridge is a sport then I can say that poker is a sport..

 

[RAKINBAKIN]

I wouldn't consider poker a sport! Its a gambling card game. although the WPT is broad casted on ESPN

 

[Stu_Ungar]

I think tournament poker is a sport for the same reason chess are.

If bridge is a sport then I can say that poker is a sport..

Some people simply dont think any form of definition applies to poker, or the word sport for that matter.

So I throw out the gauntlet to you.

I think poker is an orange.

Now I challange those who feel that poker is a sport to prove me wrong.

Poker is an orange.

Remember you are not allowed to refer to anything as meaningless as a definition.

This is my new game.. no, my new sport.. actually Ill go the whole hog.. its my new orange!!!