Another "is online poker fixed" thread.. reasons below!

[MercilessKiller]

Thank you High Maintenance! Now i don't feel like a COMPLETE prat lol...

Its not like I'm bad at poker before anyone goes thinking I am. If you look at those hands I didnt make bad plays! They're plays I'd make and win in real tables...

I will start reserach into algorithms and the mathermatics of the random number generator. But just remember, NOTHING is random. If the cards are shuffled, and re suhffled, and re shuffled.. in real life they will be shuffled that way and the cards for the next hand will be because of that shuffle. We are used to playing and seeing the outcome of these hands.

Online, the "random number algorithm" shuffles the cards. As it is completely random, it randmoises the card order several times. This in fact makes the cards TOO random. That's why there are monster hands every few hands in online poker imo. Because when the cards are shuffled TOO much, we're going to see a lot of trips/flushes/straights as well as straight flush draws.

By shuffling them too much, it is in fact making it unrealistic and very different to real life poker. Think about it, the pro's who make millions in the world series of poker or whatever could enter 100$ buy ins every few hours and make a LOT that way, but they dont. Why? Sure theres the lack of interaction, but online poker is very different.

I would like to see how an online pro does in a wsop tournament to be very honest...

(before people say "well you see online entries in finals at WSOP", yes indeed.. but for the amount of people that play online poker (and say they're pro), why's there only a few?)

Limit ring games/NL rings games fair enough. If you get a good game plan and sit tight to make money that's fine. BUt to play in multi tables for example is impossible to relate it to real life.

 

[Four Dogs]

it may be impossible for a computer program to be TRUELY random. ??

It is in fact impossible for anything to be truly random. In fact RNG are actually PRNG's or Psuedo Random Number Generators. The PRNG is really a very simple funcion avaialble to anyone. Why reinvent the wheel. The key to security is the SEED and the number of shuffling possibilities. All PRNG are primed with a hopefully secure number known as a seed or key. The early poker sites like Planet Poker, and Pure used a 32bit seed derived from the number of milliseconds since midnight, public knowledge, as the key to the shuffling algorythm. It could generate only a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the possible ways a deck could be shuffled. These early sites were vulnerable to brute force attacks by hackers and it was possible once the seed was cracked to determine the sequence of cards to come. This is ancient history, with all poker sites now seeding the algorythim with 128 and 264 bit encryption, all possible shuffles are covered and the deck is reshuffled continuosly. The cards you see on-line are far more random than anything a human can reproduce. Maybe that's the problem.

 

[MercilessKiller]

Yes fourdog you are exactly spot on what I was trying to explain

THe problem is, it is implicating an unrealistic poker system so how can we treat the online game in the same respect as a real poker game? after all it is in fact a computer game in the sense that it is NOT based on reality.

 

[JonSherwood]

I don't see where you're coming from. Once I started to get to the point where I started to think I was among the 'advanced' section of poker players (which I'm not saying is the best, but right above beginner and moderate) I started to see less and less of these. I used to not be able to make a bankroll go up for crap. It'd bob up in down depending on my bad beats and luck of the cards.

Now that my bankroll steadily climbs I see less and less of this, and a big part of it is folding when you have the feeling that someone happened to get one of those weird monster hands. I am, in fact, agreeing with you about seeing more monsters online, but I think that's mostly because of the speed of hands. Sometimes at a homegame you'll only play 4-5 hands in ten minutes, whereas online you can play 10-15+ hands in ten minutes, thus being able to see three times as many monsters. You've just gotta be aware.

You sort of have to expect more of them. When someone is going over the top of you again and again when you have that pocket pair that is higher than any of the board, you might just have to let go and realise maybe they hit their set or straight or something.

There's no reason to believe online poker is rigged anymore with the amount of amazing technology we have these days. Online poker has been around for so long now that it would have been detected by now if it were rigged.

Once again, I may have just rambled here, but my point might be somewhere in there.

jon

 

[MercilessKiller]

Jon. You are missing the point here....

Rather than saying it is purposly rigged, I am saying that the algorithm is simple too random it takes away realism which is why there are more monster hands.

In an 8 hour home tournament I see few straights and few flushes.... in a 2 hours online one you see loads.... that just doesnt make sense to your excuse of there are more hands played.

As for folding... when you got AK and you know/think the other person has Q2... you gna fold for example? How can you get a bad feeling they have better than you lol...

Also, it seems that it happens more pre flop rather than post flop where the play is made, and then the bad beat appears on the river.. That excludes your excuse of someone going over the top?

You're missing the point mate.

Can't treat online poker realistically as the cards that appear simply aren't realistically generated.

 

[thehenge420]

I know this feeling well. After multiple bad beats...take a moment to chill.
:bandit: :bandit: :bandit:

 

[MercilessKiller]

Its been over a day now

I am chilled but still believe algorithms are too random thus too many unrealistic situations as mentioned.

 

[RammerJammer]

Hmmmm... where are those sites with the str8 flush's? I play at UB and haven't seen that.

The jackpots are only being run on the UB cash tables. Any tourney action (freeroll, real money, or sit-n-go) is excluded. And I'm not the only chatter at the UB table who has noticed a substantial increase in the number of straight flush possibilities suddenly hitting the boards. I literally see 2 or 3 every session. Just odd that "nut" draws are falling out of the sky like raindrops with a big hand promo underway.

 

[MercilessKiller]

hehe def.

People say "its just because your looking for them" but i disagree. We all know the odds, so when we see so many flushes and straights in one game on one table... don't make sense to me Means the cards are shuffled too well they end up close together again :x

 

[diabloblanco]

Algorithms on poker sites suck! They seem TOO random that they become not random enough and odds are not realistic. If they were realistic then why do i NEVER see this type of event in ahome game.

All rubbish imo.

Wow, this is a new angle. Algorithims that are too random. Please do elaborate on exactly how this would work in the case of a RNG? I am on the edge of my office chair with anticipation. Don't mean to be a smartass, but seriously, dude. You got a couple of bad beats laid on you in one session, the same has happened to me live several times before, and worse even. You were a favorite in all three cases no doubt, but being a favorite doesn't make anything a lock. A one outer happens every once in a great while.

When some donk calls a $40 all-in with Q-2o, you're first reaction should be to click on the little "Notes" tab and doccument his name, because more than likely he is going to be an ATM machine and a guy you want to follow around.

 

[MercilessKiller]

I was unliley to fold though. I knew he was agressive and had rubbish. So called with big slick and was UL.

Listen to what I'm saying. With an rng and a completley random algorithm it gives a 100% shuffled and random outcome to the cards that appear. EVeryone can agree on this.

In real life however, the game is differnet. With a croupier or even at home gaems, the cards are shuffled well, but by hand. Not an rng. Not an algorithm. this DOES give a different outcome to how the cards appear, and although we see bad beats irl, for soem reason we tend to see more online.

One of the reasons imo may be, they are shuffled so it is fair and odds are correct, but as the algorithm shuffles them more, suddenly things such as 4 aces are more likely because in a well shuffled pack, it is more likely (think about it).

 

[Four Dogs]

One of the reasons imo may be, they are shuffled so it is fair and odds are correct, but as the algorithm shuffles them more, suddenly things such as 4 aces are more likely because in a well shuffled pack, it is more likely (think about it).

I am. I'm trying to think about it. Right now. Hey, does anyone remember that episode of Star Trek where Kirk, Scotty, Bones and Spock made smoke pour out of the androids ears by confusing them with nonesense?

 

[tazztaz]

I am. I'm trying to think about it. Right now. Hey, does anyone remember that episode of Star Trek where Kirk, Scotty, Bones and Spock made smoke pour out of the androids ears by confusing them with nonesense?

Thats where the smoke is coming from , I thought I dropped a smoke . Total enigma ! :stupido2:

 

[MercilessKiller]

I have no idea what you both meant :|

rofl

Its hard to make myself clear.


Lets say the cards are shuffled using an RNG... it creates a 100% shuffled deck right?

However, to MAKE SURE its shuffled, it does it again and again depending on the algorithm.

If you take a pack of cards and shuffle it 100,000 times before each hand, then you will see VERY DIFFERENT results irl to what you do now when its shuffled a few times.

Thus Online poker has different results as its a better shuffled pack... and at the same time, a well shuffled deck will be more likely to produce bigger hands than a badly shuffled deck. Just tihnk about that for a bit.

 

[diabloblanco]

My head assplode.

 

[tazztaz]

:hmmmm2:

My head assplode.

:albertein Maybe ... .. ...

 

[MercilessKiller]

?

Stick to topic lads hehe

 

[MDD1]

latereply

I don't know if this player still plays, but all i can say is i wish i had seen this 18 months ago..............
Iam fed up of ridiculous calls with ridiculous hands that constantly win against AA KK etc......or top pair after flop getting called with nothing only to hit runner,runner!

I also am awareof how Bad beats can happen in real poker, but on noble they just take the piss, in a close hand where everyone who has bet with a bettable hand (for example AA v A10 v KQ clubs) it will give eveyone something.....eg A/10/J on the flop and then eliminate the better two hands (or more) ihave seen this happen too often. many say you get more bad beats because youplay more hands on line, this is rubbish, I play off line, in my last tourney I saw AA once at my table in 60 plus hands and only JJ and99 of any note. on line I would see AA x 5 or 6 and likewise for KK/QQ etc.

On line is not random...............Full stop

 

[Irexes]

Hellabump.

Hellalock.