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Mellowman307
Rising Star
Silver Level
I play extremely tight in the beginning of any tourney. I have never been blinded out and make more than my share of final tables.
I do not understand anybody who utilizes a different strategy just because its a freeroll.
I guess once a donk always a donk.
I do not understand anybody who utilizes a different strategy just because its a freeroll.
I guess once a donk always a donk.
gord962
Legend
Silver Level
starfall
Visionary
Silver Level
Mellowman307 said:
If you don't understand someone elses strategy when it's based on straightforward maths, while they understand yours just fine, it's not them that's the donk. Calling people donks just because they don't use the same strategy as you is refusing to see that your strategy is not the only one that there is, and means you need to examine the thought processes behind other strategies more closely so that you can understand them properly. I understand your strategy. I've played your strategy. I've had some success with your strategy. I've also had success with this strategy, and I've spent several posts explaining why I've proposed the strategy, while the main argument against it has been pure name-calling, rather than any attempt to explain why you think the simply-explained maths is flawed. All you're saying is that you don't adapt to the different nature of tables. Would you try to play just an extremely tight strategy at a turbo tournament as well?
I'm not saying a solid, tight strategy doesn't work. I'm trying to encourage the one-style-fits-all players on the forum to think outside the box and realise that there are unique and specific situations where it is not the optimum strategy.
In any case, nobody here started out great at poker, every one of us, including those of us (including myself) who consistently make a profit, started out inexperienced and made mistakes, so the once a donk always a donk statement is not just insulting but demonstrably ridiculous.
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pokrjoker
Rock Star
Silver Level
well here is my 2 cents.....i rarely even play the first 15-30 minutes of freerolls or rebuy tourneys....mostly because of these very antics that you all are agreeing to disagree over.....i find it profitable to use freerolls as a tool to progress farther in other tourneys...usually ill sign up for a freeroll and then shortly before it starts ill find either a sng or a mtt to play.....it helps with patience in the first few rounds of all tourneys when players do the allin bs.....then after the first 30 minutes or so most tourneys settle down abit.....after i has established my stack in the tourney i use the freeroll to kill time and make my "donk" plays....therefore making it easier to maintain my stack in the other more impotant tourney....then after it comes time..if i happen to be in the freeroll when its really time to play ill just sit out the freeroll and concentrate on the more important cash tourney.....
FlopIt2Me
Rock Star
Silver Level
I findt he best strategy in freerolls is to be patient and pick your spots. Some people think you have to play every good hand you get. It is a long tourney and a couple of small pots you win in the beginning won't mean anything toward your win at the end. Some people even sit out for the first 30-45 min. I just play premium hands in the beginning and inch my way up without taking big risks. The final table is where you take the risks. I let the people that play too many hands go out 1st, then I bring my game on. I'm basically a rock in the 1st hour. In the middle portion I try to steal blinds and win sm,all pots to stay alive. The final table I play like a Sit N Go.
starfall
Visionary
Silver Level
If you want to use a freeroll as practice for other tourneys, then definitely don't play the 1st hand push concept - because you're then trying to play like you would for a normal tourney.
That said, that is missing one of the main reasons for the post about pushing 1st hand: A solid strategy is a reasonable basis for your play, but sometimes you can spot other approaches as being more useful - aggression against people trying to limp into the money, calling more speculative hands when you know you'll get called if you hit your monster and push, taking advantage of specific structures (freerolls, 10 places paid equally like a satellite tournament, no-ante structures or high-ante/blind structures, kill games, etc). All of the structures mentioned are ones where a basic solid strategy may not be optimum and in some cases may even have a negative expectation. It's useful to have a basic strategy worked out, but it's at least as important (if not more so) to be able to look at different situations to see what changes you can make to improve your strategy.
That said, that is missing one of the main reasons for the post about pushing 1st hand: A solid strategy is a reasonable basis for your play, but sometimes you can spot other approaches as being more useful - aggression against people trying to limp into the money, calling more speculative hands when you know you'll get called if you hit your monster and push, taking advantage of specific structures (freerolls, 10 places paid equally like a satellite tournament, no-ante structures or high-ante/blind structures, kill games, etc). All of the structures mentioned are ones where a basic solid strategy may not be optimum and in some cases may even have a negative expectation. It's useful to have a basic strategy worked out, but it's at least as important (if not more so) to be able to look at different situations to see what changes you can make to improve your strategy.
mdafka
Rock Star
Silver Level
I'm with ya WSORBUST, but it may also depend on the freeroll. there are some that go off every few minutes for weeks on end. In these I will only go all in on my 1st hand until one hits and i have a massive stack. then I can play poker from there on out. I have tried to win these playing tight out of the gates, but my win ratio is dramaticly lower in comparison to the games I hit an all in w/ my 1st hand. Outside of these type of freeroll situations, I definatly agree with u 100%
CAPT. ZIGZAG
Legend
Silver Level
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cexandmoney
Enthusiast
Silver Level
freeroles are a mad house. there isnt much logic or stratagy involed for the first hour or so. it only becomes a game after about 3/4 of the feild is gone. i have found that sitting out for the first 15 or so minutes of a freerole increases my chances of a top spot finish. that way im not timpted to fall into the all in rush. if i have AA and get folded or timed out i wont be there to see it. besides i make more mistakes in the first 10 hands than i will in the whole turny. blinds are cheap, pots always have the pot odds to call ith a marginal hand.
Makwa
Undesirable Predator
Silver Level
Starfall, David -- great take on a usable FR strategy (one among many of course) and your math (essentially game theory) approach provides a good concept for FR warriors to ponder.. everyone talks about BRM, nobody talks about time management, which in the end may be even more important.
Not to take away from the original three tips, or those who want to play 'solid poker' in FRs, that can work as well. I can't remember how many times I have cashed for a buck after three hours of solid play
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Not to take away from the original three tips, or those who want to play 'solid poker' in FRs, that can work as well. I can't remember how many times I have cashed for a buck after three hours of solid play
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jaymfc
R.I.P DJ & Buck
Loyaler
I like it and it makes sense to me I hate freerolls and even with a double stack it don't mean you will get anywhere but you will feel better about the game . you still have 3 hours to go to win a very small amount of money .
you could carry this strategy on to small buy ins too lol , double up first hand or go home , then just play your normal game
I think I might have developed a crack in my very tight game
edit : just saw there's one more page so this is a first page opinion
but the seed has already been planted
I hate freerolls and even with a double stack it don't mean you will get anywhere but you will feel better about the game . you still have 3 hours to go to win a very small amount of money .you could carry this strategy on to small buy ins too lol , double up first hand or go home , then just play your normal game
I think I might have developed a crack in my very tight game
edit : just saw there's one more page so this is a first page opinion
but the seed has already been planted
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godoy
Rock Star
Silver Level
I think that's exactly the point, the freerolls that rolls every 2 hours in my opinion you should play loose agressive in the beggining because you can do something else if you loose for 2 hours, but the special one like $500 freerolls that only 80 people get in, or maybe 10,000$ freeroll with a little more than 200 players you should be tight since the beggining, because in the second case the prize would worth the price of playing a lot of hours, while the freerolls every 2 hours has a prize pool of only 25$
I just think some people join the freerolls expecting a high quality poker, so when they see a lot of people going all in in the first hand they got a little bit frustrated
I just think some people join the freerolls expecting a high quality poker, so when they see a lot of people going all in in the first hand they got a little bit frustrated
neilzelkin
Enthusiast
Silver Level
i have no time
I am not a big fan of freerolls because unless you are in the top 10 you are making pennies for sometimes 3 hours of playing. I love poker but I also like to make it worth my while and nothing is more frustrating than playing for 3 hours and losing on a suck out only to make 28 cents. I guess the saying "you get what you pay for," applies to these tournaments.
I am not a big fan of freerolls because unless you are in the top 10 you are making pennies for sometimes 3 hours of playing. I love poker but I also like to make it worth my while and nothing is more frustrating than playing for 3 hours and losing on a suck out only to make 28 cents. I guess the saying "you get what you pay for," applies to these tournaments.
jdeliverer
Legend
Silver Level
Starfall: I don't fully disagree with you, but I would rather be able to start 100% of my freerolls with a normal stack than 25% of them with 3-5 times my normal stack. Generally, it doesn't make much difference how much I start with because I can outplay the opponents later.
On the other hands, it is fairly stupid to not go all in with AA if you will definitely get called. You will win about 30-40% of the time against 8 random hands, which is amazing odds to start with 9x your starting chips especially in a freeroll.
On the other hands, it is fairly stupid to not go all in with AA if you will definitely get called. You will win about 30-40% of the time against 8 random hands, which is amazing odds to start with 9x your starting chips especially in a freeroll.
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dumpy620_84
Rock Star
Silver Level
why not go all in with the first hand of a freeroll if you have AA or KK you somones gonna call and you can double up. sure you can lose to a worse hand but how much did you actually pay to get in this tournament?? it's a no brainer.
dexter smith
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Thanks alot for your advice, I think that has been a big problem for me "going all in" right away on AA, which i should no better, I almost always loose with pocket Aces. I almost think i should just fold them...lol not really but jeash, what luck, I have gotten more patient, and learned not to go all in.
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wooo
Enthusiast
Silver Level
With a freeroll there is nothing to lose
i disagree with the above statement
ive made over $500 in freerolls
my biggest win was $60
had two more of $50 each
there is an possibilty of making some good money
and to improve your game
and its free
thats what you can lose
i disagree with the above statement
ive made over $500 in freerolls
my biggest win was $60
had two more of $50 each
there is an possibilty of making some good money
and to improve your game
and its free
thats what you can lose
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acylysis
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Poker is just a game, i dont like to criticize because when i do something a little unorthadox i dont like hearing it. and some people are quick to judge your play. success is measured in many different ways, i define my self as a winner because i have not lost all of my games. ilove freerolls for the loose play and the free money I LOVE THIS GAME.
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MistahSaechao
Enthusiast
Silver Level
thanks for the tips
those were all very helpful.... but i find the key to winning in freerole tourny's is to not get too comfortable.... even if you have chip lead and get too comfortable, you can soon become vulnerable to misreads and people slow playing... just my lil 2 cents here, thanks!
those were all very helpful.... but i find the key to winning in freerole tourny's is to not get too comfortable.... even if you have chip lead and get too comfortable, you can soon become vulnerable to misreads and people slow playing... just my lil 2 cents here, thanks!
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EdKJ
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Multiple near-optimal heuristic strategies in a game of uncertainty
Not necessarily. There may be multiple winning hold-em strategy considerations. But I think that the main trick to placing well is survival. Possibly you should only go all in with top 3-5 hands and muck everything else. No limit online micro stakes hold'em is wild and woolly.
That said I think anyone who thinks "always go all in first hand" is an utter idiot and I welcome their chips in the long run.
Not necessarily. There may be multiple winning hold-em strategy considerations. But I think that the main trick to placing well is survival. Possibly you should only go all in with top 3-5 hands and muck everything else. No limit online micro stakes hold'em is wild and woolly.
That said I think anyone who thinks "always go all in first hand" is an utter idiot and I welcome their chips in the long run.
andosalado
Rock Star
Silver Level
My experience in freerolls tells me that is good toplay tight in the beggining and wait for a big hand to call a possible all in, but if i got a pair of pocket aces i don't care if it is the first hand i go all in, if i lose well i haven't invested neither my or my money so it isn't a lost at all.
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uradonk406
Enthusiast
Silver Level
THis statement made the most sense off all of emm... only had to sum it up in one phrase too ...lol..."dont come back playing nlhe"...brilliant ....this is the greatest ....yet hidden... strategy i can think of.... learning to play a whole new set of odds does take a while ..... but i bet you it saves the br over the long term.