Suited Connector Theory

[aliengenius]

Yesterday I was playing small stakes 6max NLHE and was chatting with a regular at the table on how tight the table was. "Yes", he replied. "No one has made a donkish move in 200 hands". "Yah but there's a cure, you know", I said. "It's playing like a donk yourself lol", he stated. I didn't say anything.

Couple of hands later a weak tight player who had 5 PFR% opens from MP. I immediately put him on middle to high PPs and AK/AQ. I have a solid TAG image. I'm sitting on CO with Td7d. I call and the rest of the table folds. Flop comes As4d6d giving me a flush draw. He bets 3/4 of the pot and I call since the effective stack size is ~100bb giving me good enough implied to call. 5c lands on the turn. I'm putting him on AK/AQ or even AA now and he 3/4 pots again thinking "No way I'm letting the fish draw to the flush". Since I now have OESD + FD I happily call the bet. 3s lands on the river giving me a 7 high straight. Weak tight bets 2/3 pot for value and I think for 2 sec and shove over. I could almost hear him thinking "Now he's trying to bluff me with a missed draw what a fish!". He immediately calls, shows AKo and I get his stack, he pukes and I ejaculate.

"I told you there's a cure", I said to my friend reg at the table.

Sorry about the long story but I'm at work atm.

Suited connectors and gappers are golden but you need to know who you're playing with them against. Cold calling a single maniacal LAG with SCs is hardly profitable. Also avoid playing them out of position and from early position. Never open limp with them, open with them from late position instead.

Gandalf's two cents.

PS. I'm new to the forum and I'm not sure if long strings of bold characters are found offensive here - if so - I beg your pardon.

I don't get it, is this supposed to an example of some kind of spectacular play with suited two gap connectors? You pretty much hit the prefect card on the turn, then suck out (15 = approx. 30% to win) on the end by backing into a runner runner straight, all the while calling 3/4 pot bets on every street. He was foolish to bet the river if he puts you on a busted draw. Looks like the "perfect storm" to me. You invested almost 30% of your stack chasing, and only got paid because you hit the disguised draw.

 

[pigpen02]

Where is my box of fish tags?

 

[Gandalf]

No it wasn't meant to be spectacular. Maybe it was a bit of an extreme example. But IMO the play had a positive expectation. When the pre-flop raiser is such a nit and so easy to put on a hand it could be profitable to call with any two suited if one could be sure the rest of the field folds (obv. you can't know for sure). But anyways in this case, when the table was so insanely tight I decided to call with a two gapper. If wouldn't have gotten the straight draw on turn I definately wouldn't have called. I know it was a very marginal hand. IDK, was it really so horrible? Also... do you like a shove on turn?

Btw. because I was at work and didn't have access to my HHs I decided to write it up this way. It was meant to be entertaining, not make it look like a brag post (which it wasn't).

 

[runningcold]

89 suited is my fav hand some good info here thx all

 

[vaj18psu]

i love suited connectors, i like the lower ones better tho..like a 56..becuase 9 10 gives that chance for the high cards to lead to a higher strait

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

I realize I am not that good of a player and in all probability you are a much better player than I am. But from this hand I still can't understand your call with only a flush draw. You did a good job putting him on a hand, but wouldn't that make it easier to fold?

You had almost 10 to 1 odds or so if you count your backdoor straight and I think he was giving you not even 2 to 1 pot odds.

Now I have two questions, and I would greatly appreciate advice from you or anyone. How did you use the implied odds to call that bet on the flop and again on the turn, even though you had a gut shot straight and flush draws? Also I was wondering what 5 PFR% meant. Pre flop raise I was guessing. But how do you keep track of all that?

At any rate, that must've been a nice day to win that pot.

Good luck.

 

[jeffred1111]

I remember reading a Poo-Bah post on 2+2 that said that suited gapers had around 1-2% less chance to win against two random hands, thus making them practically the same, because, really, we'll rarely be playing them with no reads.

 

[JimmyBrizzy]

MY BAD

sorry for the above post. I realize you are not getting 10 to 1 odds of your hand hitting you have 10 OUTS! I'm not a real big buff when it comes to implied odds but I would still say you were getting somewhere at best 5 to 1 odds at improving your hand and at BEST 2 to 1 pot odds.

Can someone explain how this is a good call?

 

[blankoblanco]

i love suited connectors, i like the lower ones better tho..like a 56..becuase 9 10 gives that chance for the high cards to lead to a higher strait

actually the only way T9 gets spited by a higher straight is if the board has exactly KQJ and an opponent has AT. that's the only way. 56 gets owned by JT, a highly and often played hand, the same way on a 789 board. benefit of T9 is that when the board comes the four overs to the T, AKQJ, you have the nut straight. same can not be said for 56

of course beyond straight possibilities, you can argue that T9 will make pairs that are dominated more often/that 56 will make lower, less valuable pairs/whichever way you want to look at it. sometimes depends on the type of cards your opponent(s) like to play

 

[jeffred1111]

Arguing that 56s is better than the higher ones is also wrong because:

a) If you flop trips with 9Ts, your kicker is more likely to be good than with 56s (altough it could be argued that more hands played after the flop cointaining a ten or a 9 will have more jacks and Queens also).
b) You're less likely to be outflushed with T9s than with 56s

 

[Steveg1976]

About suited connector, If I remember from Harrington on Hold'em correctly 5 and 10 are two most common required cards for straights. Either one is a pretty good start.

 

[Blazing_Saddler]

About suited connector, If I remember from Harrington on Hold'em correctly 5 and 10 are two most common required cards for straights. Either one is a pretty good start.

Well they are, because you can't make a straight with out either a five or a ten. Doesn't mean one of them has to be in your hand though.

My favourite is when you get min raised by someone with Aces, and you are sitting in the BB with suited connectors. Have taken some real big flops from that, of course its rare, but still satisfying

I flopped a straight one time, the flop came 456, and the bloke bet at me,a real big over bet, so I re raised him, banged all his chips in without even thinking about it. I don't think he put me on any range of hands, just a case of I have aces and all my money is going in

 

[Steveg1976]

[I don't think he put me on any range of hands, just a case of I have aces and all my money is going in[/quote]

That seems to happen a lot with the high pairs, that is what can make suited connectors devastating when they hit.

It has only happened to me one time but I did hit a striaght flush playing suited connectors. I won a huge pot becuase someone had the Acex suited.

 

[bongswat]

i think suited connectors esp low to mid range are way way overrated.but what do i know im just a simpleton gl

 

[Goldog]

It has only happened to me one time but I did hit a striaght flush playing suited connectors. I won a huge pot becuase someone had the Acex suited.

Once for me too It don't get any better than that!

 

[switch0723]

the answer to playing suited connectors is basically another question, are you willing to gamble? Since very rarely will you flop your big hand, but most of the time you will end up with a flush or open ended draw. Then youve got to be willing to gamble. This is why they can cost you a lot of chips in tourny play as you end up chasing and if you dont hit, your down a lot. As far as i see it, never call a raise with suited connectors as they hit a lot less then people think, so you end up just giving away chips with 9 high. Only ever raise with them, since if a high flop comes you can cbet showing strength and take it down, and if a low or mid flop comes, you have probably hit it so you can c bet without people putting you on the cards you have for a straight.

Saying this my fav hand is 7,8 suited since i do like to gamble, and its the best hand vs aces i think i read somewhere, since if it hits a straight it wont need an ace to do so like q,j would, or even 8,9 as the 8,9 straight may be 9,t,j,q,k thus the aces win with ace high straight.

 

[reg1955]

suited connecters suck

 

[aliengenius]

Edited from this thread:

here are the percentages of your stack you should be willing to call off to crack AA (or other overpair); note that this is where AA open shoves every flop, and these are the "win %" for the top hands that called:

87s, 76s, 65s: 4.1%
T9s: 4%
98s: 3.9%
97s, 86s, 64s: 3.7%
87o, 76o, 65o: 3.4%
J7s, JTo: 3%
43o: 2.7%
72s: 2.1%

Conclusion: you really shouldn't try to crack them unless stacks are VERY deep.

 

[kidpoker410]

Suited Connectors:

1. to play these hands correctly u have to be a very confident player and know ure strengths and weaknesses

2. u should only play then against players u feel u have a very good read on.

3. u should never be commiting more then 10% of ure stack with these hands preflop. (u must leave ureself with enough chips to make a bet on the flop and gauge the other players if u flop oesd or weak flush draw.)

4. also keep in mind the number of other players that are seeing the flop with u. the more players in the pot the less u should bet with these hands (if flop hits) the reason behind this is so that if u flop a monster hand and say theres 4/5 people in the pot u are not commiting ureself on a draw, and ure giving them an opportunity to reraise and gauge the hands. then if ure draw hits bet a 1/4 of the pot size and expect a stack of chips to come ure way when AA-QQ is overcards on a 10 hi board.

Ok so keeping those 4 things in mind...

45s-910s would probably be the best sc's where if u flop a pair and flushdraw ure very likely to have the best DRAWING hand, though ure hand may still be dominated u have a ton of outs.

10js-qks are a lot more dangerous to play. more then likely someone in the pot (3-4 handed) will have a card of yours and ure kickers arent the best. with these hands i believe if ure going to play them u have got to be prepared to dump some chips in the pot. you are very likely to get reraised if u make a weak c bet, and if u check a big pair with these cards and someone reraised u ure faced with a rough decision where u may possibly be outkicked and way behind.

anything below 45s should be folded 100% of the time. (u can only make 2 straights with 23s ((a-5,2-6))

Once again this is advanced poker. not recommended for beginning players.

 

[rsmolen15]

i really like playin low to mid ranged SC esp 78 when they hit it is awesome cuz most people wont put u on it...

 

[DoubleDonkalicious]

I haven't seen anybody mention SPR (stack to pot ratios) in this thread. There are a lot of times when these middle suited connectors can get in for the right price and pull off a great bluff in addition to the chances of making a great hand.

Reason?

A lot of players who overlook the advantages of an SPR-type style unknowingly play their premium hands with bad SPR's.

Quick example: effective stacks are $100 in a $.50/$1 game, and the Villain in MP w/AKo, not wanting to arouse suspicion, raises to $3, Hero calls on BTN w/78s & all others fold. The pot is $7.50. Flop= 54J rainbow. Villain chks. & Hero bets $5. MP slowly calls. Pot=$17.50 Both players have $92. Turn= K. Villain bets $13 & Hero thinks then calls. Pot= $43.50 & stacks= $79, enough left behind to fold if things get rough and still win later. River=3 (no possible flush on board). Villain eyes his hand again & confidently bets $21 w/K high making the pot $64.50 and Hero shoves all in. The Villain eyes his stack and sees just under $60 and almost lets the clock run out before disgustedly folding. He won't stop thinking about whether his opponent actually made a straight for a while.

It's a funky example I know, and I have to admit that more than 90% of the time I don't have the rock hard cohones to play as the Hero did here. What I do, however, is play the way the Villain should have which is to gain a favorable SPR of between 4-6. Committing 10% of the effective stack preflop ($10) gets a 4. This pot commits both players preflop, if the Hero is foolish enough to call a 10 bb raise. If the Villain cbets $16 the Hero has to be crazy to call b/c the pot would then have ballooned to $53.50 & stacks would be $74. Getting all in is imminent.

The Villains preflop raise to $3 was terrible. The silly math on this:

SPR=Stack size divided by preflop pot size. The Villains AKo wants to get the BTN pot committed if the hand hits. Since getting a 10bb raise called is kind of difficult I would say the Villain could have raised to $6.50 or $7 which stands a better chance of inducing a call. Assuming it's $7 the pot is $15.50 & both players have $93. 93/15.5= 6 Perfect. If AK hits and the opponent wants to gamble then it only takes a 3/4 pot bet of $11 to make the pot $37.5 then a 1/2 pot bet of $18 + a call brings the pot to $73.50. Get the drift? Shoving all in on the river is less than a pot sized bet, and 87s never gets a chance to breath under all the pressure you've applied as opposed to the $3 raise (SPR of 12.93, very bad with a premium hand) which the Hero was able to control the whole way.

 

[Amroth]

I like suited connectors in multi way pots. They can hit hard.

As a tip, the less gaps in the connectors the better the hand is

 

[rssurfer54]

Bingo.

Personally I prefer to limp with these and only occasionally disguise with a raise (maybe 25% of the time), and if the flop doesn't hit me massively hard I fold. If it does, I trap.

Don't limp.

 

[JOEBOB69]

Don't limp.

Don't quote 5year old post IMO

 

[rssurfer54]

Don't quote 5year old post IMO

haha, didn't even see that, but there was a lot more here.