Ask BlackRain79 Anything About Cash Games

[ldw22]

Thanks for taking the time to do this thread, Nathan, it's a goldmine of advice! I'm curious, when you were first starting out in poker, did you read any of the "classic" tutorial texts (e.g. Doyle Brunson's Super System, just as one obvious example)? And, if so, do the techniques, strategies, etc from any of those classics still hold up at all in the modern poker era - either for online or live poker?

 

[Nathan Williams]

Thanks for taking the time to do this thread, Nathan, it's a goldmine of advice! I'm curious, when you were first starting out in poker, did you read any of the "classic" tutorial texts (e.g. Doyle Brunson's Super System, just as one obvious example)? And, if so, do the techniques, strategies, etc from any of those classics still hold up at all in the modern poker era - either for online or live poker?

Hey ldw,

No problem!

When I was first starting out I did read a few of the classics like "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky and a few others. I never read Doyle's book.

While I do think that a few of these books helped me learn how to think like a winning poker player, I don't really recommend them for the modern game, especially if you play online.

And this is because many of these books were written before online poker even existed. Or they were written by live pros who have next to no real experience with the online game.

Also, many of these books even pre-date the No Limit Hold'em boom (which began roughly around 2003 with the famous Chris Moneymaker wsop win).

So in many cases the classic poker books focus on the games that were more popular in the 80's or 90's like Limit Hold'em which requires a completely different strategy to beat for the most part.

I think there has been a ton of high quality poker literature released in the past 10 years focusing specifically on No Limit Hold'em and written by people who have tons of experience with BOTH live poker and online poker.

So these are the poker books that I recommend. I hope this helps.

 

[ldw22]

Hey ldw,

No problem!

When I was first starting out I did read a few of the classics like "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky and a few others. I never read Doyle's book.

While I do think that a few of these books helped me learn how to think like a winning poker player, I don't really recommend them for the modern game, especially if you play online.

And this is because many of these books were written before online poker even existed. Or they were written by live pros who have next to no real experience with the online game.

Also, many of these books even pre-date the No Limit Hold'em boom (which began roughly around 2003 with the famous Chris Moneymaker WSOP win).

So in many cases the classic poker books focus on the games that were more popular in the 80's or 90's like Limit Hold'em which requires a completely different strategy to beat for the most part.

I think there has been a ton of high quality poker literature released in the past 10 years focusing specifically on No Limit Hold'em and written by people who have tons of experience with BOTH live poker and online poker.

So these are the poker books that I recommend. I hope this helps.

Thanks very much for your reply Nathan, fascinating insight - and nice to know that a player as successful as yourself didn't just do it through natural instincts and table time, you also put in the hours to read tutorial texts, too. Reassures me that it's a good idea to put some hours into that side of things myself, rather than spending all my poker time actually playing. Thanks again!

 

[Aballinamion]

Good to see you here

Hey everyone,

My name is Nathan "BlackRain79" Williams. I am a 10+ year poker pro, 3 time poker author and the founder of www.blackrain79.com

It was also around 7 years ago that I decided to sell everything I own, hop on a one way flight to Bangkok, Thailand and travel the world. I am from Vancouver, Canada by the way.

I have been active here on CardsChat for many years and this is the only major poker forum that I consistently recommend, besides my own.

And that is because I have always found CardsChat to be a positive, welcoming environment especially for beginners who want to learn and improve.

Throughout my own poker career I have been mostly a cash game specialist and I am best known for having some of the highest winnings in online poker history at the micro stakes.

I would be happy to answer any poker questions you may have. Or anything else in general!

Although for specific poker hands, please post those in the relevant poker hand analysis sections here on CC. I will be active there also.

Thanks

Nathan

Hey Nathan this is Henrique from YouTube, I commented a lot of your video analysis and my name here is the same name I have on pokerstars: Aballinamion.
Thanks for your wisdom master!

 

[Lord Foma]

Tell me at what tables it is best to play cash, 6 max or 9 max?

 

[Aballinamion]

Thanks a lot Nathan!

Hello Nathan, my name is Henrique aka "Aballinamion" and I watch all of your YouTube videos and Blog posts. Your work is really great, I love it.
What I would like to ask you is to help me, and the general population here on how to play cash Deep Stacked?
You have a lot of videos where you treat the subject, even some spots where are "Ultra Deep Stack Poker". I started a thread here trying to form a group of studies of Deep Stack in 6-max Cash game, specially 2NL and 5 NL. I would like to count on your expertise to help us figure out solutions and to play Cash as we play Tournaments: always chasing the Bigger Stack as possible.
I believe Deep Stack in Cash Games is an area with low information online and it is very hard to figure out by oneself how to play with 500 BB in a Zoom table for example. I already saw, more than once, regulars with (believe me) 2500 BB in a 2 NL Zoom Table.
I want to learn how to do it, how to do the maximum value and I am having difficulties.

Regards;


Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[marvbake]

For me personally, I believe that the mental game is extremely important. So when I sit down to play poker I am very confident in my abilities and I believe I am the best player at the table.

Seems mental game is essential to winning poker.

I've reached the point where I'm very good skill wise but occasionally make bad reads or bluffs here and there. I've also made great thin calls, bluffs, and folds as well.

But after a downswing I sometimes question whether I'm good enough to be a winning player, but I guess that's the mental aspect of it all.

Self awareness and emotional intelligence is what always myself emphasize as important, which is what you yourself consider mental game. I honestly feel self awareness and emotional intelligence applies to not just the poker table, but life in general.

But anyway, usually after some time off and introspection, I stop being so hard on myself.

 

[Nathan Williams]

Hey Nathan this is Henrique from YouTube, I commented a lot of your video analysis and my name here is the same name I have on PokerStars: Aballinamion.
Thanks for your wisdom master!

Hey Henrique, thanks for watching my YouTube poker videos and for all your comments. I am glad I could help you

 

[Nathan Williams]

Tell me at what tables it is best to play cash, 6 max or 9 max?

Hey LF,

This is a tough question to answer because I think there are pros and cons to each one. I think there are also plenty of weaker recreational players in both.

So my recommendation is usually to just try each one for yourself and find out which format you enjoy more, 6max or full ring.

I think some people are "hard wired" more for one game more than the other. But I also think that eventually you can learn to play both.

For me personally, I now play both because it gives me the best table selection.

And I think that for anybody who has aspirations of playing mid or high stakes one day, they will need to learn both due to the much smaller player pools at those stakes.

I actually wrote an entire article about this on my blog by the way which you may find helpful:

6max vs Full Ring - Which one is better?

 

[Lord Foma]

Thanks for the answer

 

[Aballinamion]

The Master of the Micros

Hello Williams good to see your thread here at Cardschat! Welcome to the community.

I really would love to ask you anything about Cash Games, and I am going to start now.
I am trying to figure out an optimal strategy for playing Deep Stack 6-Max Zoom.
Wait a second, my question will come, but first I'd like to explain a few things that I believe is the most important thing in a Cash Game Table: we must master the Deep Stack game because most of times that we are with a 100 BB versus another one with 100 BB our odds are simply 2:1 (We invest 100 BB to win 200 BB).
There are few spots where we have to invest 100 BB to win 300 BB or more, and those are MWP and very hard to achieve.
I believe the Cash Game is really efficient when we master the Deep Stacked Game because when we are Deep Stack:
A) As bigger our stack goes, more the Players tend to respect our bets and raises, and this is better for applying more Bluffs
B) As bigger our stack goes more odds we have, with hands that we would never play unless we are 200 BB+
C) It seems that when we are Deep Stack we use to realize our equity in position even more, so it is a wonderful spot to Setmine, to play those connectors and suited combos that we almost never play.
D) As long as the Stack grows in the table more complicated the game is. We cannot simply Shove 200 BB+ versus another player with 200 BB+ with AKo, for example, unless we have tons of information about the Villain.

Sorry, I didn't make my question yet. The point is that I began a thread about Zoom and I am looking for people who help us out on how to make the maximum at a Cash Table.

The Thread I posted it is here: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/zoom-2-nl-strategy-444638/

And here are some videos where you discuss some Deep Stacked hands:

Crazy Deep Stack Hand:

Ultra Deep Stack Hand:

With all of that being said, now comes my questions:

A) What was your personal most Deep Stack pot in your Career, but specially at the micros?
B) What was the Deeper Stack size you ever saw in a Cash Table, and how do you believe this is possible? Is this Skill? Lucky? God?
C) How can we elaborate tactics and strategies for seeking Deep Stack spots, how does the Stack Sizing affects our Odds and Implied Odds? Could you give us examples, articles, videos, anything would be great!
D) Is there a course for learning the mysteries of Deep Stack Cash? Because I see people talking about it as it was just another characteristic of the game but in my way of thinking I believe that Deep Stack is the only way to play really profitable poker (at the micros, mostly)

Thanks for your lessons, you are the Wizard of the Micros

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

 

[German629]

Hi Nathan Williams! Do You divide opinion, that the players by own features:
mindset, nervous system, speed of thinking, and etc.,share only on the cash players
or tournaments players, and very rare meet universals? I will consider on my own
playing experience: when I played cash and tournaments, that on exit got about zero
or little bit plus... When I became to play only tournaments, became slowly,
but surely to play in the plus. I wanted to hear Your opinion by this question.
Regards, German!

 

[Nathan Williams]

Hello Nathan, my name is Henrique aka "Aballinamion" and I watch all of your YouTube videos and Blog posts. Your work is really great, I love it.
What I would like to ask you is to help me, and the general population here on how to play cash Deep Stacked?
You have a lot of videos where you treat the subject, even some spots where are "Ultra Deep Stack Poker". I started a thread here trying to form a group of studies of Deep Stack in 6-max Cash game, specially 2NL and 5 NL. I would like to count on your expertise to help us figure out solutions and to play Cash as we play Tournaments: always chasing the Bigger Stack as possible.
I believe Deep Stack in Cash Games is an area with low information online and it is very hard to figure out by oneself how to play with 500 BB in a Zoom table for example. I already saw, more than once, regulars with (believe me) 2500 BB in a 2 NL Zoom Table.
I want to learn how to do it, how to do the maximum value and I am having difficulties.

Regards;


Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Thanks Carlos, I appreciate the kind words. Glad my poker videos on YouTube and on my blog help!

I completely agree with you that deep stack poker is incredibly profitable and there is nowhere near enough information out there on how to play optimal with 500bb+ stacks especially.

And as all low stakes Zoom players (and live players also), this often happens in these games.

Along with creating more videos on YouTube addressing this, I will also be writing more blog posts in the future covering it on my site.

The bottom line is that once the stacks get deeper in poker it opens up a totally new layer of complexity to the game and rewards the best players ability to read hands well and make well timed bluffs.

This is why I am a huge fan of deep stack poker

 

[Nathan Williams]

Thanks for the answer

No prob glad it helped

 

[Alucard]

Wassup!
What stakes are you plaing these days?
For how long do you plan to stay in Thailand? I'm from Sri Lanka btw

 

[Nathan Williams]

Seems mental game is essential to winning poker.

I've reached the point where I'm very good skill wise but occasionally make bad reads or bluffs here and there. I've also made great thin calls, bluffs, and folds as well.

But after a downswing I sometimes question whether I'm good enough to be a winning player, but I guess that's the mental aspect of it all.

Self awareness and emotional intelligence is what always myself emphasize as important, which is what you yourself consider mental game. I honestly feel self awareness and emotional intelligence applies to not just the poker table, but life in general.

But anyway, usually after some time off and introspection, I stop being so hard on myself.

That is exactly what downswings do, they make you question yourself.

The thing about poker though is that during a downswing you are not actually that bad in reality. And also, during an upswing, you aren't that good either.

The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[Nathan Williams]

Hello Williams good to see your thread here at Cardschat! Welcome to the community.

I really would love to ask you anything about Cash Games, and I am going to start now.
I am trying to figure out an optimal strategy for playing Deep Stack 6-Max Zoom.
Wait a second, my question will come, but first I'd like to explain a few things that I believe is the most important thing in a Cash Game Table: we must master the Deep Stack game because most of times that we are with a 100 BB versus another one with 100 BB our Odds are simply 2:1 (We invest 100 BB to win 200 BB).
There are few spots where we have to invest 100 BB to win 300 BB or more, and those are MWP and very hard to achieve.
I believe the Cash Game is really efficient when we master the Deep Stacked Game because when we are Deep Stack:
A) As bigger our stack goes, more the Players tend to respect our bets and raises, and this is better for applying more Bluffs
B) As bigger our stack goes more odds we have, with hands that we would never play unless we are 200 BB+
C) It seems that when we are Deep Stack we use to realize our equity in position even more, so it is a wonderful spot to Setmine, to play those connectors and suited combos that we almost never play.
D) As long as the Stack grows in the table more complicated the game is. We cannot simply Shove 200 BB+ versus another player with 200 BB+ with AKo, for example, unless we have tons of information about the Villain.

Sorry, I didn't make my question yet. The point is that I began a thread about Zoom and I am looking for people who help us out on how to make the maximum at a Cash Table.

The Thread I posted it is here: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/zoom-2-nl-strategy-444638/

And here are some videos where you discuss some Deep Stacked hands:

Crazy Deep Stack Hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFIAWqZV6Ek&list=PL8y2k41xe4GAlIN57xSgko9TNAlTveArH&index=12

Ultra Deep Stack Hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhPwLXQZ3sg&t=583s

With all of that being said, now comes my questions:

A) What was your personal most Deep Stack pot in your Career, but specially at the micros?
B) What was the Deeper Stack size you ever saw in a Cash Table, and how do you believe this is possible? Is this Skill? Lucky? God?
C) How can we elaborate tactics and strategies for seeking Deep Stack spots, how does the Stack Sizing affects our Odds and Implied Odds? Could you give us examples, articles, videos, anything would be great!
D) Is there a course for learning the mysteries of Deep Stack Cash? Because I see people talking about it as it was just another characteristic of the game but in my way of thinking I believe that Deep Stack is the only way to play really profitable poker (at the micros, mostly)

Thanks for your lessons, you are the Wizard of the Micros

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

Thank you for the kind words Carlos, I am glad I could help you

A) I have been in some crazy low stakes games on a Friday/Sat night where there is a maniac playing 100% of his/her hands. I can remember online being involved in hands well over 1,000 big blinds deep in cases like this.

B) The deepest stack I ever saw online was 5,000 big blinds at an NL2 table. Maniac playing 100% of his hands going all in preflop every time and running like god.

C) I could probably write another book about how to play deep stack poker, it is that complex. Implied odds go way, way up. So hands like suited connectors and suited aces are much more valuable when the stacks are 200bb+

Pocket pairs also go up massively in value. Some of the most profitable sessions of my poker career have been sitting 200bb+ with a fish and finally hitting my set versus his AA or KK. All the money is going in of course, because fish don't fold AA or KK.

You can also 4-bet bluff more often preflop and put the other regulars in tough spots. You can triple barrel bluff postflop as well.

These are a few points about deep stack play. I will try to write more about this and make more videos in the future as well.

D) There is no course that exists to my knowledge about deep stack cash. But I will have a massive new poker course coming out in 2020, and I will definitely include a section on this.

 

[marvbake]

That is exactly what downswings do, they make you question yourself.

The thing about poker though is that during a downswing you are not actually that bad in reality. And also, during an upswing, you aren't that good either.

The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.

Thanks for the response!

That's one way of ensuring yourself a following; by interacting here! A person can expect a response responding here.

 

[Nathan Williams]

Hi Nathan Williams! Do You divide opinion, that the players by own features:
mindset, nervous system, speed of thinking, and etc.,share only on the cash players
or tournaments players, and very rare meet universals? I will consider on my own
playing experience: when I played cash and tournaments, that on exit got about zero
or little bit plus... When I became to play only tournaments, became slowly,
but surely to play in the plus. I wanted to hear Your opinion by this question.
Regards, German!

Hi German,

I am sorry but I am not sure that I understand your question. I believe that you are asking about poker player traits and how they apply to cash games and tournaments?

 

[Nathan Williams]

Wassup!
What stakes are you plaing these days?
For how long do you plan to stay in Thailand? I'm from Sri Lanka btw

Hi Alucard,

I play at the micro stakes, sometimes higher. I have already lived in Thailand for over 7 years. I still consider it to be my "home base" but I also travel a lot more these days.

 

[German629]

Hi German,

I am sorry but I am not sure that I understand your question. I believe that you are asking about poker player traits and how they apply to cash games and tournaments?

Hi Nathan Williams!
You understood me correctly! I asked " about poker player traits and how they apply to cash games and tournaments."

 

[Nathan Williams]

Hi Nathan Williams!
You understood me correctly! I asked " about poker player traits and how they apply to cash games and tournaments."

Thanks for clarifying German.

I think a lot of the same traits are important in both cash games and tournaments, patience, discipline, work ethic, emotional control to name a few.

I think there is a different mindset to beating each though. With cash games, it's just a long term grind, I don't really switch up my play drastically from day to day.

With tournaments though, I think the best players in the world are able to to turn a switch when it gets late in the tournament and start playing a lot more loose and aggressive to build a big stack.

I think this is one of the biggest reasons why people don't have success in tournaments. They forget that all the money is in the top 3 places. And having a mountain of chips in front of you is how you intimidate other players late in the tournament and win the whole thing.

The best tournament players in the world are able to make the mental adjustment of playing for the win every time, they don't care about a min cash or just making the final table.

 

[German629]

Thanks for clarifying German.

I think a lot of the same traits are important in both cash games and tournaments, patience, discipline, work ethic, emotional control to name a few.

I think there is a different mindset to beating each though. With cash games, it's just a long term grind, I don't really switch up my play drastically from day to day.

With tournaments though, I think the best players in the world are able to to turn a switch when it gets late in the tournament and start playing a lot more loose and aggressive to build a big stack.

I think this is one of the biggest reasons why people don't have success in tournaments. They forget that all the money is in the top 3 places. And having a mountain of chips in front of you is how you intimidate other players late in the tournament and win the whole thing.

The best tournament players in the world are able to make the mental adjustment of playing for the win every time, they don't care about a min cash or just making the final table.

Hi Nathan Williams! Wow! The Great respect You for detailed answer!
Professional is always Professional! Keep it Up!

 

[luisroxbren]

thanks for your input i will take your advice

 

[Nathan Williams]

thanks for your input i will take your advice

No problem Luis glad I could help!