$250 NL HE MTT: 3 bet pot in position

R

Rajten

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UTG 60bb raises 2bb, CO (loose player 60bb) calls hero BU (30bb stack) 3 bets 8bb (AsQh), x2 folds, UTG quick calls, Co Fold

Flop 764 off suit (pot 20bb)

UTG checks, hero checks

Turn 7

UTG bets 2bb, hero calls

River 7 ( 24bb)

UTG bets 6bb, hero ( stack 20bb left) ???

I have problems with similar spots. Do you cbet on flop? On turn I got good price. River is anyone bluff this spots? I don't need be very often right from mathematical point of view, but when I am wrong my stack is very small.
 
pescaofish

pescaofish

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do not understand your description, Aside from the 5, what is your second card?
 
3

300HPGOD

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Is this live or online as it makes a difference in my opinion? Live I think 3 betting is fine and you could do 7 or 8 BBs since live you can 3 bet a little smaller if you would like (plus it might be helpful if we think we can go smaller as this is an UTG opener that could 4 bet jam and we would have to fold... I think we would have to fold anyway). If this is online, though, I think this plays differently especially since $250 online tourneys are high up on the spectrum. Online here, I think given that this is UTG I dont like jamming 30 BBs as much but I think we can here and I personally like it better than 3 betting for over 25% of my stack. My preference here, even though it sounds and looks weak and passive, is to just call in position since this is an UTG opener.

Flop: Villain checks to the raiser and I think unless villain knows you have a history of trapping, then when you check here you are telling them you never have 88+ or a set. Problem is here that our 3 bet pre was such a large chunk of our stack that we have a SPR now of about 1. This is why I like jamming pre more than 3 betting to some amount (I like just calling the most) because we are in this SPR of 1 spot and we have no post flop maneuverability. Here is where your read on UTG comes into play. Would they fold a 99 type hand here if we get it in as I think if we get it in then AK folds. I dont know that based on the post but here I am either just giving up (which is a big waste of chips pre flop imo) or I am going for it with a very small bet flop and jam the rest turn to make it look valuey and make it look like I have big hand grouped with my 3 bet pre. I dont think we can bet flop and then decide to give up.

Turn: As played its a weird bet by villain as its only about 10% of the pot so I would not fold and I would just call as you did assuming the flop was played as is.

River: Is interesting since it trips the board and it means villain has less made hands. Big hands could play this the way they did and some bluffs could too and they are trying to make it look like a value bet. Its tough on the river facing that bet and that board as I would think 88-QQ bets more on the turn than 2 BBs. AA, KK, AK could play this exact way but how loose is UTG? Do they open A9 or A8 of KJ off of Q10 off UTG? We have to think about that at this point and what they call pre with after our 3 bet. The more hands we can think of that they might open pre and call a 3 bet with than we can call. The less and tighter they are the more we should fold. I think given that we still would have 12 BBs if we called and were wrong gives me enough leeway and call this. Again, that is readless without knowing what they open, how they play, etc. and that stuff really affects your decision here.
 
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Rajten

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It was live tournament. I also wondering all in pre flop and just calling pre, but I decided to make this committing 3 bets. Opponent was generally loose in my opinion, but, he almost snaped called my big 3 bet, as played I think that he got some pair. I think that I won't bluff him from 99+ and I think Ak he jams pre flop. Not a lot of info, on opponent because not many hands we played each other
Is this live or online as it makes a difference in my opinion? Live I think 3 betting is fine and you could do 7 or 8 BBs since live you can 3 bet a little smaller if you would like (plus it might be helpful if we think we can go smaller as this is an UTG opener that could 4 bet jam and we would have to fold... I think we would have to fold anyway). If this is online, though, I think this plays differently especially since $250 online tourneys are high up on the spectrum. Online here, I think given that this is UTG I dont like jamming 30 BBs as much but I think we can here and I personally like it better than 3 betting for over 25% of my stack. My preference here, even though it sounds and looks weak and passive, is to just call in position since this is an UTG opener.

Flop: Villain checks to the raiser and I think unless villain knows you have a history of trapping, then when you check here you are telling them you never have 88+ or a set. Problem is here that our 3 bet pre was such a large chunk of our stack that we have a SPR now of about 1. This is why I like jamming pre more than 3 betting to some amount (I like just calling the most) because we are in this SPR of 1 spot and we have no post flop maneuverability. Here is where your read on UTG comes into play. Would they fold a 99 type hand here if we get it in as I think if we get it in then AK folds. I dont know that based on the post but here I am either just giving up (which is a big waste of chips pre flop imo) or I am going for it with a very small bet flop and jam the rest turn to make it look valuey and make it look like I have big hand grouped with my 3 bet pre. I dont think we can bet flop and then decide to give up.

Turn: As played its a weird bet by villain as its only about 10% of the pot so I would not fold and I would just call as you did assuming the flop was played as is.

River: Is interesting since it trips the board and it means villain has less made hands. Big hands could play this the way they did and some bluffs could too and they are trying to make it look like a value bet. Its tough on the river facing that bet and that board as I would think 88-QQ bets more on the turn than 2 BBs. AA, KK, AK could play this exact way but how loose is UTG? Do they open A9 or A8 of KJ off of Q10 off UTG? We have to think about that at this point and what they call pre with after our 3 bet. The more hands we can think of that they might open pre and call a 3 bet with than we can call. The less and tighter they are the more we should fold. I think given that we still would have 12 BBs if we called and were wrong gives me enough leeway and call this. Again, that is readless without knowing what they open, how they play, etc. and that stuff really affects your decision here.
 
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feisas7991

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no idea how live games play, but here are your options;

as you say its 3b call off or jam yourself preflop
on the flop its a range bet board, but if they fold nothing and their range is somewhat tight you can check.
if they dont fold but their range is wide then you just bet small on the flop for value. but if its a value bet vs wide call happy ranges, make sure they dont check jam on us too much random hands. .. you got the point how to construct flop strategy

turn as played this min lead basically tells us his has no better than TT. given that and our rangre its happy raise and blast off on the rivers

on the river you gotta decide yourself what you beat and what he can fold vs our jam

Hope this helps and Good Luck!
 
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Rajten

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no idea how live games play, but here are your options;

as you say its 3b call off or jam yourself preflop
on the flop its a range bet board, but if they fold nothing and their range is somewhat tight you can check.
if they dont fold but their range is wide then you just bet small on the flop for value. but if its a value bet vs wide call happy ranges, make sure they dont check jam on us too much random hands. .. you got the point how to construct flop strategy

turn as played this min lead basically tells us his has no better than TT. given that and our rangre its happy raise and blast off on the rivers

on the river you gotta decide yourself what you beat and what he can fold vs our jam

Hope this helps and Good Luck!
I like your way of thinking. Raises seem intresting on turn I can represent some slow played AA and KK, rest overpairs would be bet for protection, with Jam on river it seems strong option. Raise on river after call on turn seems also intresting option.
 
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HATOOEASY

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At 30 you should just be jamming - when you raise and get called you end up in dicey spots on dry ass boards were you don’t know were you stand (like this one). Shove, get called and flip or run into the occasional AK and cry, or, get everyone to fold, steal the dead money and keep it moving with 35bb+.

As played, range bet small OTF - villain probably floats a bunch but considering you’re shallow I think his floats are a lot stronger than they would be if you were deeper.
 
Last edited:
eetenor

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UTG 60bb raises 2bb, CO (loose player 60bb) calls hero BU (30bb stack) 3 bets 8bb (AsQh), x2 folds, UTG quick calls, Co Fold

Flop 764 off suit (pot 20bb)

UTG checks, hero checks

Turn 7

UTG bets 2bb, hero calls

River 7 ( 24bb)

UTG bets 6bb, hero ( stack 20bb left) ???

I have problems with similar spots. Do you cbet on flop? On turn I got good price. River is anyone bluff this spots? I don't need be very often right from mathematical point of view, but when I am wrong my stack is very small.
This is a good hand for you to put into GTO Wizard so that you can look at typical ranges-you can do that in the free version. You can study 1 hand a day post flop--

At 60 bb UTG should not be trapping AA KK QQ or AK Therefore they do not have it so we can rep it

85 is the nuts 53 second nuts and UTG should not have that either therefore UTG has either a set or an over pair or a bluff when they bet.

What would you have done if you had AA-JJ on the flop? We would be doing that with AQ as well based on the above assumptions for V range.

:unsure::geek:
 
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feisas7991

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This is a good hand for you to put into GTO Wizard so that you can look at typical ranges-you can do that in the free version. You can study 1 hand a day post flop--

At 60 bb UTG should not be trapping AA KK QQ or AK Therefore they do not have it so we can rep it

85 is the nuts 53 second nuts and UTG should not have that either therefore UTG has either a set or an over pair or a bluff when they bet.

What would you have done if you had AA-JJ on the flop? We would be doing that with AQ as well based on the above assumptions for V range.

:unsure::geek:
free version doesnt have node lock and what do you want to see there? we cant configure it remotely close to their ranges nor sizings
 
eetenor

eetenor

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free version doesnt have node lock and what do you want to see there? we cant configure it remotely close to their ranges nor sizings
We use gtowizard as a tool to look at range engagement so we do not need it to figure it out for us by nodelocking this spot. We can nodelock ranges ourselves as a training exercise as we make assumptions of possible ranges and how our Villains may overfold- play passively or too aggressively or call too wide or frequently- Using the whiz enables us to look at charts preflop and 1 free hand a day lets us also look at charts for each street again to see how our range interacts with the V's possible range which we estimate- As to sizing using the whiz to compare gto sizing with V sizes is very helpful to understand our V's errors- thus allowing us to increase our exploit with sizing as well as range.

:unsure::geek:
 
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