Shells
Moderator
Moderator
I'll add a link to a news piece I found related to this incident, in your first post.
BOTS discovered in 'The Venom' today while the tournament is in the money!
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Quotes from the article:I'll add a link to a news piece I found related to this incident, in your first post.
"The MTT Database Review account on X posted the allegation earlier on Monday, saying, "Second largest stack in day 2 of the Venom is a bot. Bot that I reported to ACR over a month ago. Including directly to Head of Security and to @WPN_CEO. Bot that I reported together with another 50 MTT bots, out of which majority is still active."
"ACR Poker replied directly to that post ahead of the restart, stating that it had suspended the 'Withia' account and that the stack would be blinded away. Should 'Withia' make the money, as seems likely, payouts would be adjusted."
"An announcement from WPN's security department states: "In line with our security protocols and following a review of suspicious playing patterns, we have suspended the account of the player under the username 'Withia,' who currently holds the second position in chips during the ongoing multi-day tournament, The Venom $12.5 Million GTD Tourney. Should this player cash in the $12.5 Million Tournament while being blinded out, we will adhere strictly to our terms and conditions, including laddering payouts accordingly."
............................................
So basically it seems like, WPNs security checks are carried out on social media? And if an influential account with many followers claim, that a relatively new and unknown player is cheating, then ACR will ban that player to keep the majority of their audience happy? The account Withia had been playing for only 2 month prior to the Venom and was down around $9.000 over 490 games. It had paid over $3.000 in rake during this time, but likely still not as important to ACRs business as the many poker players, who follow MTT Database Review on X
Luvepoker
Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
The problem with your comment there's nothing to wait and say, is not necessarily accurate. There may be people thousands of them watching on YouTube and twitch but since I was not watching it I have to take a wait and see approach. Another problem with just taking these comments the heart even though people are just watching this and making these comments it does not make them true. 2-3 years ago when we had the ACR cards chats game we had people talking about bots in the chat one day and there's one body at the table, when I told him I was not a bot but a human being it stopped it but why should I have to say something to make it stop and worse what could I be doing that would make somebody call be a bot. I mean let's be serious I've been part of the CC group for years anybody who's playing there should have known better that I was not a bot but an actual human being but yet somebody said they thought I was a bot.
Big thanks to shells for adding the link, I found it distressful an interesting to say the least. While I'm really glad to know ACR is looking at this stuff and is doing everything they can I'm not sure that this is going to be helpful for them to have it go the way it did. I don't believe there's cheating and bots totally running sites but I'm also not naive enough to believe it's not out there or possible. I think ACR should have handled it differently.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
You do realize that many players from ROW play on ACR... right? And there were over 5,000 entrants in a $2,650 buyin with top 3 all winning over 1 million each, 1st place $1.8 million. Many (most?) of the world's High stakes MTT players play in this event.
fwiw, they weren't 'accusations'
& yah... I responded to you again
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
The fact remains, that someone posted public accusations on X against a specific player for using bots, and then ACR banned this player as a direct response to these accusations. We do not know, if the player was actually cheating, or what kind of investigation ACR carried out very rapidly in the middle of a game before banning them. Weather cheating happened or not, I do not think, this is how, a site should carry out its security. So I maintain, that ACR is not a safe place to play for serious money.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Sure. Tell it to the guy who just won $1.8 million. Tell it to Chris Moneymaker.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
It wasn't 'a player'.... but keep talkin' out your arse.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
I have no idea but many were asking about it. I did hear there were some reimbursements today (game integrity reimbursement) but no clue how they're deciding to monetize things. Hopefully some players will make their reimbursement amounts public.
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Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
The guy was actually Dominik Nitsche (who won the event yesterday for $1.8mil.)
Someone should advise him against playing on there.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
So you are basically saying, that because somebody won a tournament, then the site hosting it is a safe place to play? By that definition all sites are safe, since all tournaments have a winner
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
So you are basically saying, that because somebody won a tournament, then the site hosting it is a safe place to play? By that definition all sites are safe, since all tournaments have a winner
Gosh that's such a funny way you have of attempting to twist the meaning of my words. Perhaps if you were able to have a bit more of a clue you'd understand the relevance of my comment instead of your assumptions "Some USA player wants to get rid of the competition so he accuses other player" LoL... yah.. errr. No. THat's what happens in the rigtard thread.
YOU typically say "don't play on blah blah blah site. It is OOoooooooo 'un-reg-youuuuu-Lay-TED!!!!!!' It is naughty!!!
I say, the majority of the MTT regs participate in big series on the WPN network. Did you know it's well-known for having the best/deepest structures of ALL of the sites in the highest buyin levels? And most regs. sprinkle in a few MTT's from WPN into their schedules on a daily basis.
And my comment had nothing to do with 'somebody' winning a tournament on there but was showing who the player who won it was (You do know who he is.... don't you?). In other words, an example of a HIGHLY respectable poker pro, playing on WPN and taking down the Venom for $1.8mill.
Browsing through that lobby on Day 2 after the bubble had popped, I saw many names on the tables who were highly reputable pros and also some who were Former #1 ranked in the World (online MTT). And others who were also Player of the Year at wsop. I guess they're all 'gamblers' and just don't know any better.
Luvepoker
Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
Was it specifically for this event or others?
puzzlefish
student of the donk arts
Loyaler
Basically it comes down to the same thing as always. If these aren't bots, then where are the players behind the accounts and why aren't they stirring up the pot for having their accounts suspended? Surely these highly successful accounts would have something to say for being sat out of a major tournament?
And beyond that, who really cares about ACR's reactive security actions. Clearly they don't care if the bot accounts are playing or not until it creates negative publicity and/or causes funds to leave their ecosystem. If they knew about these for a month, they should have acted a month ago. The alternative is that they didn't know and are just saying that they did.
And beyond that, who really cares about ACR's reactive security actions. Clearly they don't care if the bot accounts are playing or not until it creates negative publicity and/or causes funds to leave their ecosystem. If they knew about these for a month, they should have acted a month ago. The alternative is that they didn't know
and are just saying that they did.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Actually the banned accounts were not particularly "succesfull". Two of them were fairly new. One so new that the only games played seem to be satellites for the venom. The last had played for 2 years but was only marginally profitable in tournaments over a large sample. But of course you are right, that if someone is banned unjustly, we would expect to hear about it on social media or in poker forums. There are also other possible TOS violations than using bots like multi accounting etc.
Exactly.
Its this MTT_Data_Review guy, who claim, he told ACR a month ago. Its not ACR saying so.The alternative is that they didn't know
RhinoRyan89
Legend
Platinum Level
Oh dam Dom won it nice.
Is Dominik still an ambassador for 888 ?
Not seen his content for a while.
Does he still run DTO used to watch him on twitch many years ago when he had just developed the training software.
Blast from the past anyway @Poker Orifice
I Live Poker
Legend
Platinum Level
People are very greedy, some because they have little, others because they have a lot and always want more. If everyone did their part, the world would have fewer accidents to compensate for injustices.
But in the end everything balances out, there's no way around it, it just takes more turns but reaches the same point.
I don't think ACR's approach is bad to the problem, if they are doing the best and fair, they have nothing to fear. While some venues ignore security issues, others even cheat and go out of business. Unfortunately, humanity is like that, and you have to have a lot of courage to be a fair and good person.
Bots gain more advantage in long, deep and freezeout tournaments, this is because in the final stages we are tired and we are more tired while the bots are not, however as long as a human mind is healthy and rested it will always outperform the machine in poker, the Bots will have very visible patterns, you have to explore them to discover them.
The only problem with all this is: how much money have I already lost to bots, how would they compensate, imagine?
But everything will be fine, it always is.
But in the end everything balances out, there's no way around it, it just takes more turns but reaches the same point.
I don't think ACR's approach is bad to the problem, if they are doing the best and fair, they have nothing to fear. While some venues ignore security issues, others even cheat and go out of business. Unfortunately, humanity is like that, and you have to have a lot of courage to be a fair and good person.
Bots gain more advantage in long, deep and freezeout tournaments, this is because in the final stages we are tired and we are more tired while the bots are not, however as long as a human mind is healthy and rested it will always outperform the machine in poker, the Bots will have very visible patterns, you have to explore them to discover them.
The only problem with all this is: how much money have I already lost to bots, how would they compensate, imagine?
But everything will be fine, it always is.
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
This is the guy who I was quoting from and I'm pretty certain he wasn't just flying off with accusations when he made that statement.
fwiw, this is small portion of what this guy has made from poker (makes much more from his poker business than playing the game).
fwiw, this is small portion of what this guy has made from poker (makes much more from his poker business than playing the game).
Brigistul
Enthusiast
Silver Level
the Russians must not be able to play in the ACR just as other poker platforms have done and banned them!A lot of bots!I'll add a link to a news piece I found related to this incident, in your first post.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Maybe. But even if someone is using a computer program AKA "bot" to play for them, it would be incredibly dumb to not watch the table, when they are deep in a $2.650 MTT. And of course a CATCHA test will also not catch anyone using RTA.