$25 NL HE Full Ring: 30NL - Bluffing the fish

[Station_Master]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Stakes

$.10/$.25

Table Format

Full (8-10 seats)

VP$IP

34

PFR

3

Currency

$

888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.15/$0.30 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $32.06 (107 bb)
MP: $49.31 (164 bb)
CO: $28.32 (94 bb)
BU (Hero): $30.00 (100 bb)
SB: $34.82 (116 bb)
BB: $30.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.45) Hero is BTN with T♥ K♠
2 players fold, CO calls $0.30, Hero raises to $1.20, SB calls $1.05, BB calls $0.90, CO calls $0.90

Flop: ($4.80) Q♥ 3♠ T♣ (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO bets $2.40, Hero calls $2.40, SB folds, BB calls $2.40

Turn: ($12) J♥ (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $8.34, BB calls $8.34, CO calls $8.34

River: ($37.02) 7♠ (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $18.06 (all-in), ,

What do you think of this bluff. I have all the AK combos, little showdown value a K blocker so I decided to go for it

 

[puzzlefish]

Is he a calling station?

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Standard isolation

Flop
Heads-up it would be a no-brainer to call this donk bet with second pair. But with two players left to act behind you I think, I might just get out of the way and be done with the hand. It is close though, and I am not saying, that calling is an outright mistake. But in general we are supposed to defend way less in multiway pots, especially when we are not closing the action.

Turn
I am checking back here. A lot of hands just made two pair or a straight and might raise you, so I prefer to take a free card and try to improve on the river.

River
I think, its extremely optimistic to assume, that a half pot sized bet will get two fish to both fold. Its true, that you are the only player, who can have the nuts, since they likely 3-bet AK preflop. But fish are not thinking in ranges. They are just looking at their own two cards and the board. And if they liked their hand enough to call on the turn, then they are calling again on this brick river card.

 

[ScooperNova]

Knowing nothing about the other two players other than the moves they made in this hand, I don't really like the river bluff. I do understand your logic of not having much showdown value and taking a shot at a nice pot. The size of the bet relative to the pot and also relative to the turn bet makes me weary they are folding nothing but busted draws and chances are at least one of them has a decent to stellar hand. Thanks for the post.

 

[Station_Master]

Is he a calling station?

I wasnt sure at the time

 

[Andyreas]

But fish are not thinking in ranges. They are just looking at their own two cards and the board. And if they liked their hand enough to call on the turn, then they are calling again on this brick river card.

I think this is the main point which I've also learned the hard way.

So let me take a guess:
One of them called you with a Jack second pair and beat you? 😅

 

[Station_Master]

Preflop
Standard isolation

Flop
Heads-up it would be a no-brainer to call this donk bet with second pair. But with two players left to act behind you I think, I might just get out of the way and be done with the hand. It is close though, and I am not saying, that calling is an outright mistake. But in general we are supposed to defend way less in multiway pots, especially when we are not closing the action.

Turn
I am checking back here. A lot of hands just made two pair or a straight and might raise you, so I prefer to take a free card and try to improve on the river.

River
I think, its extremely optimistic to assume, that a half pot sized bet will get two fish to both fold. Its true, that you are the only player, who can have the nuts, since they likely 3-bet AK preflop. But fish are not thinking in ranges. They are just looking at their own two cards and the board. And if they liked their hand enough to call on the turn, then they are calling again on this brick river card.

I basically agree with all of this. Turn was the inflection point and I thought to myself this is the best bluffing hand I have, but its daft as I dont need to have a bluffing range in all spots v fish. I had already decided to follow through on river bit should have sized down turn a bit to get more fold equity (or not bluff at all!)

Got snapped off by QJ. He didnt even think about it. BB folded. I have all 16 combos of AK and some K9s, but fish arent thinking in this way!

 

[Aballinamion]

888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.15/$0.30 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $32.06 (107 bb)
MP: $49.31 (164 bb)
CO: $28.32 (94 bb)
BU (Hero): $30.00 (100 bb)
SB: $34.82 (116 bb)
BB: $30.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.45) Hero is BTN with T♥ K♠
2 players fold, CO calls $0.30, Hero raises to $1.20, SB calls $1.05, BB calls $0.90, CO calls $0.90

Flop: ($4.80) Q♥ 3♠ T♣ (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO bets $2.40, Hero calls $2.40, SB folds, BB calls $2.40

Turn: ($12) J♥ (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $8.34, BB calls $8.34, CO calls $8.34

River: ($37.02) 7♠ (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $18.06 (all-in), ,

What do you think of this bluff. I have all the AK combos, little showdown value a K blocker so I decided to go for it

We are 3-betting too much if we pick up KTo, even from the BU x CO. We are 3-betting for bluff and we do it when we know that players in the blinds will fold more than usual and that original open raisor will also have some fold to 3-bet.
When we do 3-bet here we also want to have suited combos, KTs will do the work better than KTo.
Versus a calling station type that opens from CO I don't mind folding KTo or even KJo in position and wait for another opportunity.
As played, once we 3-bet and both players on the blinds call and CO also calls we want at least a two pair situation. Other scenarios we simply check-fold on the flop.
We have second pair and this is not a good spot to call light when CO bets. We are giving oustanding odds for the players in the blinds to enter the pot and making our situation harder than usual.
The turn improved our equity a bit, but as said, we do not own KhTh so I would simply check again to control pot.
It doesn't matter for a recreational player ranges, balance if we have removal, a king as blocker nothing of this theory matters. What it matters is if they own some Qx they will call.
One of the main principles of 6-MAX is to play in position versus recreational players, at first, this is correct.
However, we should be careful while trying to bluff a recreational player, because we already know that they get stick to their hands, they don't think about ranges and position and they will call where they should've folded.
We are bluffing regular players, and good regulars that understand the game theory and will realize that when we shove on the river, as we did on this hand, either we missed or we have the nuts, so they are in a hard spot to call. Recreational players don't think like this.
Hands like this you posted are the result of getting bored at the table, so we decide to look for action at any costs. A hand that we could've simply folded preflop brought us into a uncontrollable situation postflop. Cash is not a game of action, is a game of patience.

 

[Station_Master]

We are 3-betting too much if we pick up KTo, even from the BU x CO. We are 3-betting for bluff and we do it when we know that players in the blinds will fold more than usual and that original open raisor will also have some fold to 3-bet.
When we do 3-bet here we also want to have suited combos, KTs will do the work better than KTo.
Versus a calling station type that opens from CO I don't mind folding KTo or even KJo in position and wait for another opportunity.
As played, once we 3-bet and both players on the blinds call and CO also calls we want at least a two pair situation. Other scenarios we simply check-fold on the flop.
We have second pair and this is not a good spot to call light when CO bets. We are giving oustanding odds for the players in the blinds to enter the pot and making our situation harder than usual.
The turn improved our equity a bit, but as said, we do not own KhTh so I would simply check again to control pot.
It doesn't matter for a recreational player ranges, balance if we have removal, a king as blocker nothing of this theory matters. What it matters is if they own some Qx they will call.
One of the main principles of 6-MAX is to play in position versus recreational players, at first, this is correct.
However, we should be careful while trying to bluff a recreational player, because we already know that they get stick to their hands, they don't think about ranges and position and they will call where they should've folded.
We are bluffing regular players, and good regulars that understand the game theory and will realize that when we shove on the river, as we did on this hand, either we missed or we have the nuts, so they are in a hard spot to call. Recreational players don't think like this.
Hands like this you posted are the result of getting bored at the table, so we decide to look for action at any costs. A hand that we could've simply folded preflop brought us into a uncontrollable situation postflop. Cash is not a game of action, is a game of patience.

It's not a 3bet pre it's a raise over a limp. This play would make no sense in a 3bet pot as too many villains only call AK