Where and When to use push/fold charts

[EarnDAStack]

I've recently played a hand where I jammed a middle pair into a SB limp with about 20bbs effective. I ended up losing the hand and it made me realize I really had no idea what I was supposed to be doing in this spot.

Are situations like this were Push/Fold charts start to create their value?

I've found that I usually tend to do pretty well at the beginning of tournaments when stacks are deeper given my previous history of mostly playing cash games, but I find that once stacks get more shallow I think I over fold.

Should I be spending time looking at Push Fold charts at this point to get better and more confident with my 25 and less BBs play? Is there something else I should be looking at to improve this part of my game that I haven't thought of?

Your thoughts are much appreciated,

Thank you,

 

[Luvepoker]

Push fold charts are great bu you dont want to push/fold with 20BB. You have to many chips to push and if you get called you are going to be very beat most times.

 

[azforlife]

I'd suggest thinking more about continuation past flop (turn, river). Push/fold charts are a must, most people overestimate/underestimate key spots during a tournament when it clearly one or the other (easy fold or call) but like the member above said, I'd suggest not shoving with 20 BB unless you're being sneaky somehow with KK or AKs. Also your question is a bit vague I'd recommend detailing it as much as possible for future question posts.

 

[fickleberry]

Push fold charts are great bu you dont want to push/fold with 20BB. You have to many chips to push and if you get called you are going to be very beat most times.

This is correct..

There is an Android App called Push Fold Entity that allows you to enter your position, your stack size, the ante and table size and it will show you the range to push, call or overcall.

Great learning tool.

 

[Veritas]

I've recently played a hand where I jammed a middle pair into a SB limp with about 20bbs effective. I ended up losing the hand and it made me realize I really had no idea what I was supposed to be doing in this spot.

Are situations like this were Push/Fold charts start to create their value?

I've found that I usually tend to do pretty well at the beginning of tournaments when stacks are deeper given my previous history of mostly playing cash games, but I find that once stacks get more shallow I think I over fold.

Should I be spending time looking at Push Fold charts at this point to get better and more confident with my 25 and less BBs play? Is there something else I should be looking at to improve this part of my game that I haven't thought of?

Your thoughts are much appreciated,

Thank you,

look for Jonathan Little push/fold Charts and jennifear push/fold Charts.


I think they are up to 25bb.
once you get an idea About how wide you could shove, your mid/late stage Play will get a lot better.
apart from that, experience is a big factor. so the more you Play the more comfortable you will get in those spots


another very important factor for Deep runs: don't be afraid to bust, not matter how far you got in a Tournament

 

[Cash2019]

Hello! It won't take a lot of time to improve the push / fold skill. It is enough to engage in 15 minutes every day for a month and this is enough. There are special programs for this, such as icmizer and sng wizard.

 

[EarnDAStack]

I'd suggest thinking more about continuation past flop (turn, river). Push/fold charts are a must, most people overestimate/underestimate key spots during a tournament when it clearly one or the other (easy fold or call) but like the member above said, I'd suggest not shoving with 20 BB unless you're being sneaky somehow with KK or AKs. Also your question is a bit vague I'd recommend detailing it as much as possible for future question posts.

Yeah I've started to realize that as I've begun to play more tournaments. When I started playing them I was overly nitty for sure, I'm slowly learning to open up my ranges a little but as you kinda pointed out at there's usually at least one spot in a tournament where I'm in a spot like that where I have no idea what the correct play is and I guess I'm kinda looking for where I can start learning about these spots without really knowing what I need to study to get better at for spots like that.

I think the vagueness in the initial question and possibly this post come from me not completely understanding the concepts to approach these from as a whole.

Thanks for pointing that out to me and I'll try and make a more thought out and detailed question in the future

 

[akmost]

Is there something else I should be looking at to improve this part of my game that I haven't thought of?

If we take into consideration ICM or whatever you want to call it those push/fold charts are always +EV in the longterm.

If we are at the bubble of a SNG, because it has more ICM spots IMO, there are times we can push profitable almost our entire range.

For example ,we are in the bubble phase of the SNG , there is a 5 bbs stack, we are in the SB with 15bbs and the BB sits with 10bbs.
In a blind vs blind situation it is profitable to open jam vs the BB almost any 2 cards.It would be catastrophic for the BB to eliminate prior to the 5bbs player. His calling range here is the very premium hands.That means that we shoving profitable a huge percentage of our range.

A drawback of those push/fold charts is that the equation assumes that hero's and villains pushes and calls are the optimal which they never are.

 

[Amanda A]

I actually don't think what you did is that terrible. 20 big is a little large to shove but if you raise and then want to c-bet that's going to take a big chunk of your stack and middle pair is a tricky hand to play post-flop. It's too good to fold, but what are you going to do when over cards come on the flop? Are you going to fold to a c-bet? Are you going to call a c-bet and maybe a turn bet? All of a sudden your stack is getting shorter. You don't want to get involved in a hand where you end up calling off your stack piece by piece because you got yourself in a pot committed trap. So what you did is put the tough decision back on the limper, I get it. Most times limping means weakness and you'll probably get a fold with that kind of aggression. Did you run into a big pair who played it tricky with a limp? Agreed too that it depends on where you are in the tourney. If you are close to the bubble you may just want to call or check if you are BB with middle pair, play it safe and hope to get a favorable flop. If not, or if you face too much aggression then, fold. Other things to think about - how fast is the tourney and when do the blinds go up next. If it's a turbo and the blinds are about to go up and you where in the BB with just a limp from the SB and all other players folded, then it really may not have been a bad spot to get it in there.