What do you do when he is on a draw?

Spaceman

Spaceman

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 16, 2018
Total posts
1,345
Awards
4
Chips
0
You have
:qh4::5h4:

The flop is
:qs4::9c4::js4:

Blinds are 50/100. You both have a stack of 1.500. In the pot there are 550.

Lets say, you have a read and you know you are ahead and that your opponent is on a draw. You have position. Your opponent checks.

What exactly do you do?
 
Last edited:
Nathan Smith

Nathan Smith

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Total posts
224
Chips
0
If you know you have the best hand and he is drawing: BET. Bet enough to give him the wrong price with his draw.
 
Spaceman

Spaceman

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 16, 2018
Total posts
1,345
Awards
4
Chips
0
If you know you have the best hand and he is drawing: BET. Bet enough to give him the wrong price with his draw.

So, how much would you bet here?;)
And do we really wanna charge for a turn card here or taking the pot on the flop is better?
 
Luvepoker

Luvepoker

Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Total posts
5,670
Awards
23
US
Chips
1,093
I would always bet here. You know he will only hit by the river about 1/3 of the time so why would you not bet and get value out of your hand while you can since he wont call if he misses on the river. You just want to make sure you bet enough not to give him the proper odds to call you profitable. If he does win so be i but if he does win you want him to win knowing he will be loosing more chips to you in the long term.
 
ROman77

ROman77

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 26, 2018
Total posts
255
Chips
0
I try to use semi-bluff and play aggressively..this card is dangerous for my stack ..at least I'll put down a jar in a one-on-one game ..
 
milka1605

milka1605

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 1, 2014
Total posts
2,199
Awards
2
Chips
318
I would raise to 3bb and expect action from my opponent. If he expects to get a gain from the next card, then he can fold. If he has two peaks in his hands or the same pair as you, he will call.
 
P

Principg

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Total posts
105
Chips
0
I would bet 60% of pot, if he just calls, and miss his draw on turn, i shove.
He wont see whole board for free, if he wants to see river, he wil have to put his whole stack in ;)
 
Lorpugo

Lorpugo

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Total posts
495
Chips
0
If villain is fish and will call jam here put him allin else bet 400-600 and see the turn card.
 
L

LuisBoaC

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 17, 2017
Total posts
234
Awards
1
Chips
119
Theoretically you need to bet enough that he's not getting the correct pot odds for his draw. Anything above one third of the current pot achieves this (assuming he'll only beat you if he hits his flush and all flushes will beat you, giving him 9 outs). However I would suggest anywhere from two thirds to the size of the pot depending on the exact spot, because of the implied odds he's getting and the fact the pot is currently one third the size of your stack so I wouldn't be at all annoyed to take it down there with just a pair of Queens.
Look up pot odds/draw odds if you want a more full explanation of the mathematical theory.
 
tauri103

tauri103

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Total posts
2,144
Awards
1
Chips
24
I usually put the pot but if I really want to scare him is 750 for this configuration.when I'm really sure to be in front and I realize that the river can help my opponent. I play aggressive.
 
K

kozong

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Total posts
1,442
Awards
8
Chips
2
Lets say, you have a read and you know you are ahead and that your opponent is on a draw. You have position. Your opponent checks.

What exactly do you do?
can they check because they had set/straight w/o added FD & waiting action from us?
w/ 2 streets left & not too high SPR, checking w/ above hands seems reasonable enough to me
 
E

enzomyn

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Total posts
108
Chips
0
You have
:qh4::5h4:

The flop is
:qs4::9c4::js4:

Blinds are 50/100. You both have a stack of 1.500. In the pot there are 550.

Lets say, you have a read and you know you are ahead and that your opponent is on a draw. You have position. Your opponent checks.

What exactly do you do?



In such situations, I usually raise the pot, of course, not increasing much, because if he pays and the variance settles, I can lose many chips. In this situation I would be an aggressive medium, betting maybe a little more than the pot.
 
proud2Bwhack

proud2Bwhack

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Total posts
333
Chips
0
Honestly, I never felt good about betting hard in a pot to chase drawers out.
The value is in knowing what they are drawing to, and then bailing once they get it.
They are banking on taking your stack once they make it.

with all that said, you have to bet hard to punish the idiots, and you might be wrong about what they are drawing to, maybe they caught bottom pair and they are looking to hit 2 pair or trips on you, and you are reading them as being after the flush. But I know what you mean, hate having to try and shut them out with large bets, and many fools will draw anyway when you really dont want to deal with it.
 
proud2Bwhack

proud2Bwhack

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Total posts
333
Chips
0
and just in case you want hard numbers...

generally speaking:
flush draw is 4-1 per card
open straight draw 5-1 per card
going from one pair to 2pair or trips is 7-1 per card
 
TheMuffier

TheMuffier

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Total posts
103
Chips
0
and just in case you want hard numbers...

generally speaking:
flush draw is 4-1 per card
open straight draw 5-1 per card
going from one pair to 2pair or trips is 7-1 per card
You can't offer up hard number and then proceed to give generalizations you made up. What is this world coming to. We want to learn. Teach us
 
TheMuffier

TheMuffier

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Total posts
103
Chips
0
You have
:qh4::5h4:

The flop is
:qs4::9c4::js4:

Blinds are 50/100. You both have a stack of 1.500. In the pot there are 550.

Lets say, you have a read and you know you are ahead and that your opponent is on a draw. You have position. Your opponent checks.

What exactly do you do?
Flush draws get there like 2~% of the time from start to fish. So to be stressing about someone flushing is definitely something you shouldn't put too much weight on.

If you do suspect that your opponent is on a flush draw then for sure you need to be betting for equity protection and value.

When the flush draw gets there, unless you are 100% sure. If he gives you a good price to call and you have a relatively strong hand. You should always call... providing the call doesn't hurt you of course.

Personally. I do slow down when draws I suspect get there but more often than not, I do so in multiway pots.
 
D

duson

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 25, 2018
Total posts
245
Chips
0
I would always bet, force them to risk their stack if they want to chase the draw. If you think you have the better hand, you bet and see what happens.
 
Poker_Mike

Poker_Mike

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Total posts
5,075
Awards
2
Chips
406
You have
:qh4::5h4:

The flop is
:qs4::9c4::js4:

Blinds are 50/100. You both have a stack of 1.500. In the pot there are 550.

Lets say, you have a read and you know you are ahead and that your opponent is on a draw. You have position. Your opponent checks.

What exactly do you do?


I bet at least half the pot....maybe more.

If it weren't for your "read" knowing that he's on a draw then he could already be there on the flop. So many hands can beat you....

It seems to be early in the tournie and i'm going to charge him for his draw and maybe he gets there and I lose.

ATs is a monster draw for him and if that IS his hand he should consider shoving on your bet on the flop.

Good luck !
 
B

bstest

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Total posts
522
Chips
0
I guess I'd bet the pot to reduce his approximate 1/4 to 1/5 chance of hitting (who knows what was mucked). In my opinion the price is relatively too high to call based on probability.
 
Spaceman

Spaceman

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 16, 2018
Total posts
1,345
Awards
4
Chips
0
Keep in mind everyone that if villain have the AK or A10 of spades, I am already an underdog here. With odds 38.86% vs 61.14% and 37.51% vs 61.66%. If he have an Ace with 10 of spades odds are 54.42% vs 44.57%. So how do you really procceed here? Is it better to be agressive or play small ball? I think I would like to see some of the CC pros help.
 
mst32ro

mst32ro

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Total posts
88
Awards
1
Chips
1
You have
:qh4::5h4:

The flop is
:qs4::9c4::js4:

Blinds are 50/100. You both have a stack of 1.500. In the pot there are 550.

Lets say, you have a read and you know you are ahead and that your opponent is on a draw. You have position. Your opponent checks.

What exactly do you do?

Bet pot :evil: ..
 
akmost

akmost

Rising Star
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 2, 2017
Total posts
2,006
Awards
2
GR
Chips
341
My question is a little off topic here, how did you end up have position with this hand? Hands like that and maybe some J6s are good for blind defending when you are deep stacked because are boarder line. With 15bbs you don't open raise so wide in LP unless you have some solid reads and the tightest image on the table.

Did you open raise in LP? How can you put your opponent in AKss ATss?Those hands are standard rejams against LP open unless the player on the blinds is too passive (or trying to trap, don't know).

If I was the player with the draw I probably check jam here because I have ~50% against you.Plus you don't have any blockers 8x Kx Tx or more importantly, any spade! You are not in a good shape here , plus your Q is often dominated , we don't want such marginal spots to burn our stack.

Just my opinion , hope Ryan will comment that too :)
 
P

pokerboys

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Total posts
4
Chips
0
I will fold because i am not sure that i have the best hand in this case.
 
P

ph_il

...
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
10,163
Awards
1
Chips
50
Did you open to 2.5x BBs from BTN with 17.5 BBs behind? Not super terrible, if villain is folding blinds a lot, but you could probably drop your PFR to 2x-2.1x for
blind steals as I doubt you're raising for value.

How are you putting your opponent on a draw based on a PFR call/check flop? It's very likely they could have a draw heavy hand, but there are multiple draws on the flop and you don't specify which they have. I know it's nit picky, but this more of putting draw heavy hands in your opponent's call range vs you having a solid read on them.

As played, this is a terrible flop for Q5s. You have top pair/weak kicker, no good re-draws, and no good blockers. I plugged in a pretty decent range for villain on this board and you're slightly ahead at 55/45. I'm definitely playing for pot control and looking to get to a cheap showdown. I'll call a small bet on the river if no draw cards hit, but I want to keep the pot small.
 
P

ph_il

...
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
10,163
Awards
1
Chips
50
Keep in mind everyone that if villain have the AK or A10 of spades, I am already an underdog here. With odds 38.86% vs 61.14% and 37.51% vs 61.66%. If he have an Ace with 10 of spades odds are 54.42% vs 44.57%. So how do you really procceed here? Is it better to be agressive or play small ball? I think I would like to see some of the CC pros help.
You can drop AKs as players are 3betting/jamming with AKs and 17BBs effective, unless your opponent is the tightest/passive player in the world. It's not impossible and they could be trapping with AKs, but it's safe to assume they 3bet preflop with that hand. A10s is a more likely hand that opponent could have instead of AK, though I would expect more players to 3bet or jam with it in BB.

You definitely have to open up your call range more here. Keep in mind that both of you are fairly short at 17.5 BBs effective, so what hands will villain just call here for 1.5x BBs more instead of folding or 3betting?
 
Top