Folding a BOAT

[azforlife]

So I flopped middle set turned a boat got clicked back all in on river called thinking oh it's a Russian player to find out he got quads.
I feel like on the river it's a fold.
Are there any of you that can fold a boat? Or another good hand? Folding is not my specialty I need to learn asap lol

 

[fundiver199]

It depends on the board texture, stack depth and action. On 66A4A I am not calling a huge raise on the river with 6X, since it is in fact only an obvious second best hand, which it is very easy to have beat.

 

[Propane Goat]

You can definitely have a boat and still be way behind.

One time I had J7s in the BB and called a min-raise from MP when the button and SB came along. The flop came A77, checked all around. The turn was a J so I bet and everyone else called except the SB, which told me that at least one of those two villains likely had an A. River was another A but I decided to bet again...MP shoves and the button calls.

So we had a board of A77JA, I have sevens full of Jacks but anyone with an Ace has Aces full of sevens so I'm easily beat here, so based on the action I folded.

Turns out MP and the button both had weak Aces and chopped it.

Another scenario is if you have 22 and the board contains AAA, it's a boat but this one is also not even close to being the nuts. Any Ace and any pocket pair from 33 to KK have you beat and so does any pair made with one of the other two cards on the board.

 

[myquickwit]

I'm never folding a full house with the limited info that you provided. Sometimes you just get coolered. Without knowing the board of the hand you played I can't comment further.

 

[Acesinthebig]

The type of boat you have it's impossible to fold. It's like set over set. Very hard to detect and you should never really be assuming your opponent has the strongest hand possible.

 

[blueskies]

Depends on board texture and action. It's hard to put a guy on quads, but it's easier to put him on a bigger boat.

 

[Veritas]

So I flopped middle set turned a boat got clicked back all in on river called thinking oh it's a Russian player to find out he got quads.
I feel like on the river it's a fold.
Are there any of you that can fold a boat? Or another good hand? Folding is not my specialty I need to learn asap lol

I think 99.99% of the Player would not fold a Boat because they think the other Player has Quads.


let's say you have JJ
flop come J 5 K
Turn 5
River 10


there are only 2 possible hands that beats us. you should not think About how to make a fold here, you should think About how you could get the max value for your Hand. if he Shows quads or KK, just take the cooler.

 

[azforlife]

Sorry guys, I was a bit TILTED & was still on the grind when I wrote that.
I had 66 & turned the boat it was prob. 5 6 7 then 7 and a K I think on the river so I could've lost to 3 hands. That's why I said I could've folded the river but I dunno If I ever can lol
I need to definitely start folding more, in general as sometimes it's just too good to be true. This hand was also early in the tournament

 

[azforlife]

It depends on the board texture, stack depth and action. On 66A4A I am not calling a huge raise on the river with 6X, since it is in fact only an obvious second best hand, which it is very easy to have beat.

Rainbow straight draw board, deep stacks & raise, reraise, pot on turn all in on river.

 

[azforlife]

You can definitely have a boat and still be way behind.

One time I had J7s in the BB and called a min-raise from MP when the button and SB came along. The flop came A77, checked all around. The turn was a J so I bet and everyone else called except the SB, which told me that at least one of those two villains likely had an A. River was another A but I decided to bet again...MP shoves and the button calls.

So we had a board of A77JA, I have sevens full of Jacks but anyone with an Ace has Aces full of sevens so I'm easily beat here, so based on the action I folded.

Turns out MP and the button both had weak Aces and chopped it.

Another scenario is if you have 22 and the board contains AAA, it's a boat but this one is also not even close to being the nuts. Any Ace and any pocket pair from 33 to KK have you beat and so does any pair made with one of the other two cards on the board.

Yeah I definitely have folded many boats in that case. This was the rare kind where only 2-3 hands can beat you not just any Ace or a higher Pocket pair

 

[azforlife]

I'm never folding a full house with the limited info that you provided. Sometimes you just get coolered. Without knowing the board of the hand you played I can't comment further.

I added more insight below, sorry about THAT

 

[azforlife]

The type of boat you have it's impossible to fold. It's like set over set. Very hard to detect and you should never really be assuming your opponent has the strongest hand possible.

Thanks man makes me feel a little better. Yeah I don't want to open the Nits box a la Pandoras box lol & head down that way

 

[Luan]

man in my opinion and better not to get your tyranny down on a hand that you will endanger your chips often and bluff more often and hand wins.

 

[iwont20]

There are hands with which you will lose, even if you played the hand right. You can't fold everything besides the absolute nuts on the river. Full house vs quads is always painful but don't be result oriented. Of course you need to read your opponents, and if you have some info on them, you can adjust your game, but overall there is no way to escape some coolers. I mean that's poker. GL

 

[elflake]

Zeebo's theorem : “ No player is capable of folding a full house on any betting round, regardless of the size of the bet.”.
http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/theorems/zeebo/

 

[gryphon3005]

You say you should be folding more. That's good strategy but only at certain times in an MTT. I fold more in the late stages when I'm facing shoves from the small stacks or a raise from a monster stack and so on. I think, though, folding in the early stages needs to be done with care or you will end up approaching the bubble with a small stack.

 

[Luvepoker]

Just like with everything it depends on the situation. If I have a boat and the other player had quads so be it but again it depends on the other player. If the other player never bets and all of a sudden does what could they have that you beat. It also depends on the boat you have. On a flop of A66 if I have a six and I bet or call I am not worried. 2 on the turn and the same thing happens I am happy. River is an ace and they bet, what do you beat? Is he betting kings here or does he have the ace. Easy to fold the boat here.

 

[azforlife]

Zeebo's theorem : “ No player is capable of folding a full house on any betting round, regardless of the size of the bet.”.
http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/theorems/zeebo/

This was a fun read, can't wait to see the other theorems

 

[azforlife]

Just like with everything it depends on the situation. If I have a boat and the other player had quads so be it but again it depends on the other player. If the other player never bets and all of a sudden does what could they have that you beat. It also depends on the boat you have. On a flop of A66 if I have a six and I bet or call I am not worried. 2 on the turn and the same thing happens I am happy. River is an ace and they bet, what do you beat? Is he betting kings here or does he have the ace. Easy to fold the boat here.

It was a random (Russian) player. Those obvious examples are easy to get away from, mine was quite different, the pair on the board is his quads, suckiest position to be in. In all honesty, I don't know if I could ever fold this hand. Cheers

 

[azforlife]

There are hands with which you will lose, even if you played the hand right. You can't fold everything besides the absolute nuts on the river. Full house vs quads is always painful but don't be result oriented. Of course you need to read your opponents, and if you have some info on them, you can adjust your game, but overall there is no way to escape some coolers. I mean that's poker. GL

True True dat! I have a tendency to be results oriented at time but don't we all? I guess that's the mark of a great player, when results dont matter half as much as the decisions do! GL to you too brother!

 

[Polytarp]

Very situational... Sometimes you fold the winning hands because you are playing with fools that you gave way too much credit for having decent hands...this adjusts very quickly. Sometimes you can be the fool and bluff an excellent player off a boat thinking you have the better hand...that adjusts quickly also. Everyone has different criteria for checking, shoving or folding in such a case...as long as you are comfortable with your decision that's all that matters, win, lose or draw.

 

[azforlife]

You say you should be folding more. That's good strategy but only at certain times in an MTT. I fold more in the late stages when I'm facing shoves from the small stacks or a raise from a monster stack and so on. I think, though, folding in the early stages needs to be done with care or you will end up approaching the bubble with a small stack.

Wholeheartedly agree, in general, I'd say I'll be more hesitant to say call a raise PF in the early- mid stages than I'd late in the tourney. I was referring to folding more to raises during streets especially river & turn, that's a major leak of mine playing with no HUD with random players.

 

[leogetz79]

man. i dont think i can fold a boat. if you did fold thats like a hero fold. if you didnt dont feel bad. i do need to learn to fold as well

 

[tame4g]

If I hit a boat and I have a set, I am never folding, period! An opponent could be overplaying AA or KK just as if not more frequently than an opponent having you beat. The odds of you losing with a boat to quads are very low that you can really just write it off as an anomaly. It's always a shame to get coolered, but sometimes the "poker gods" have it out for you. Don't let this situation scare you off of very strong hands in the future!