Flush Draw versus Tourney Life

[BentleyBoy]

I’ll start this with the condition that I haven’t been playing much poker lately and having noticed this aspect of the game I would appreciate your views.

I have noticed recently that more and more players seem to be risking their tourney life on the chance of a flush draw. I have seen this happen at various stages of the game and wonder...is this a tactic that I am missing out on, or is it risky play?

The scenario is when another player is all in with say top pair or even trips on the turn and there is a chance of a flush draw for any of the players still in the hand I have seen players call the all in shove even when the odds are way below the usual odds to justify a flush draw.

I have to say that I have seen this more so in lower buyin and freeroll tourneys.

What are your thoughts on this play?

Thanks

BB

 

[eyeluvpoker]

I see everything in freerolls. It is more of a Bingo game than poker. Pretty much a waste of time to hone your poker skills. Low stakes are a little better but pretty much the same as the freerolls. Try to play good poker in a freeroll will guarantee you won't go far. You need to splash around and be aggressive and build up a huge stack to have any chance in a freeroll. Good poker your Aces will get cracked by the 1 outter on the river. Just my observations. I play a lot of freerolls right now but as soon as online poker comes to PA (not sure what the hold up is?) I will be playing tournaments of all size buyins.

 

[xy23]

Yeah I seen this happen often. Sometimes it is related to strategy like when they check- shove to put massive pressure on you. You begin to question if your top pair / mid pair is the best.

 

[zinzir]

The scenario is when another player is all in with say top pair or even trips on the turn and there is a chance of a flush draw for any of the players still in the hand I have seen players call the all in shove even when the odds are way below the usual odds to justify a flush draw.

I have to say that I have seen this more so in lower buyin and freeroll tourneys.


BB

Not sure how you can apply pot odds here, since your scenario is about people going all in in tourneys. When a short stack goes all in against a large stack or vice versa, the short stack wants to double up and survive in the tournament and the large stack has a cheap draw and a good chance to eliminate an opponent from the tourney.

 

[Tmoney999]

I am not a huge fan of going all in with flush draws for my tournament life. I don't mind a check raise all in if your almost certain your opponent is going to fold, but if your getting it in to gamble it's just poor poker. There is really no need to gamble with flush draws as hard as people do. I don't understand it except for the reason the players doing so are just not very good at the game. Your lucky to hit your flush draw every 1 outta three times, even then, sometimes it just doesn't come and your busto from a tourney or broke in a cash game. I myself am not a gambler with flush draws unless it makes good sense or i'm getting the correct odds to call. Those who chase straights and flushes, go home in greyhound buses is what they say.

 

[wyoming4paul]

A flush draw with an over on the flop puts you around 50-50, guess then it's worthwhile depending where you are in the tourney...

 

[antfurto]

The flush draw is not a bad hand, so risking your tournament early in the game is never triggered.

 

[gryphon3005]

I see this play in freerolls and low stakes but I don't think it's a strategy. I think you're looking at players with minimal knowledge who think the odds are good they will fill their draw. If they've heard of the old rule of 4 and 2 then with 9 outs post flop they see a 36% chance of getting their card on either the turn or the river. To them that's a huge number in their favor and they happily throw their chips in the pot. I watched one player lose 99% of his stack and then complain he didn't get his draw when everyone else did.

 

[Gohaku94]

Calling with it it's bad unless there is a huge bounty to compensate and make it worth somehow, but shoving with it it's not bad

 

[kowrip]

I don't really see this happening in live tournaments. If the circumstances were right, I suppose I would risk my tournament life on a flush draw, but I would have to be the one going all-in. I wouldn't be calling an all-in. Also, if I'm going to do this, I would really prefer to have a combo draw like a straight+flush draw or flush draw + 2 over cards. I could see maybe taking this risk if I'm getting short stacked. The problem is that it's obvious if there is a possible flush draw on the board. So, there's a good chance you will get called if your opponent has anything strong.

 

[kraemer]

I think most beginners over-estimate the value of a flush draw. When low in chips i can understand if people go all-in with it after the flop to double up. But generally calling an all-in with a flushdraw, especially after the turn is pure gambling and not strategic play in my opinion. With no chance that your opponent can fold you are putting in your stack as a huge underdog.

 

[bstest]

When you're clearly beaten on the turn and need to hit a flush draw, you're basically saying you're a lucky guy. The odds are clearly against you making it a bad play, but there is a lot of that going around. I say fold to live to play a better hand.

 

[jrpressley]

Calling with flush draw is unskilled play

If you are 4 to the flush on the flop, you can bet it, but I don't believe in calling a big bet or re-raising with it unless I have overcards and, or a straight draw as well. It just doesn't make sense when, most of the time, you are 2-1 going to lose a showdown.

 

[theANMATOR]

As mentioned above with 4 to the flush on the flop - especially if the off suite card is an Ace - and either the Ace of the suit I'm holding is on the board and/or I'm holding the suited King - I'm putting pressure on those who have hit top pair with that ace. It's a great move. On the turn - with one to come - eh - I'm not pushing but I've seen others do it - and suck out on the river often. At the micro/freeroll the opponent will show up with any two suited T/3, 9/2, K/2 - just terrible, especially when they call 3-4x preflop raise, only hit one suited card on the flop, and still call the flop raise. Just PRAYING HOPING LUCKING into a junk flush.