Is the "doom switch" real?

azforlife

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We all hate bad beat stories but this is a SERIOUS QUESTION!
Just had QQ vs jt on 98x which I played immaculately! 7 on turn, yesterday Axs vs KK 22x f on turn, 2 on river; Anyways my point is that less than 30,20,10% have been hitting for the last 2 weeks!
Really makes me think if there's a Doom switch which kinda cements bad variance for everyone, I HOPE NOT!:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
 
abgvedr

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Yeah same thoughts here. Also sometimes i watch few streamers, and their stream highlights, and man they have so many hands its sick! Like 1 stream and hes got 5 boats, 10 flushes, maybe even quads, straights sets all sorts of hands. Like i dont have as many hands even in a week of playing. And i play 6 mtts simultaneously sometimes. Like playing for few months on acr i cannot recall even a week with as many good hands.
 
abgvedr

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Like i decided to actually count all the good hands in some stream, watched just a hour on 2x speed and its already getting ridiculous dude. A single hour of stream with 4 tables and dudegets 2 boats, 3 sets, 4 times 2 pair, 3xQQ (1 time vs JJ) 2xJJ, KK,
A one.
Single.
Hour.
I mean what is that? Guy is playing 4 tables okay, i dont get as much action in a week on ACR, and i play sometimes 6 tournaments. Go check out if u don't believe me. But 1 hour is more then enough, its beyond ridiculous. Im either not getting any hands on ACR cause reasons i suppose, or this streamer gets ridiculous amount of action cause other reasons i suppose. But i swear my best streak on ACR was ... I dont really remember any. I always run there like shyt.
 
abgvedr

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Sorry azforlife my comments are a little bit unrelated, but they actually are. If sombody, anybody could get more action then another, that means there is some kind of switch.
 
azforlife

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Sorry azforlife my comments are a little bit unrelated, but they actually are. If sombody, anybody could get more action then another, that means there is some kind of switch.
It's A Okay Bro! You can post as many times as you wish!
I'll only add that your video was of GG poker, Lucky you! I'm country* is blocked
I played one hand today HAHA on ACR it's crazy how you figured out that's where it was even though I didn't mention that, so I played 1 hand! KJ shove bb aqt Weee Straight on turn A on river I just laughed, it's so funny 4,3,2 outs are hittin like crazy rn
 
abgvedr

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It's A Okay Bro! You can post as many times as you wish!
I'll only add that your video was of GG poker, Lucky you! I'm country* is blocked
I played one hand today HAHA on ACR it's crazy how you figured out that's where it was even though I didn't mention that, so I played 1 hand! KJ shove bb aqt Weee Straight on turn A on river I just laughed, it's so funny 4,3,2 outs are hittin like crazy rn
Well i played on ACR for last like 4 months and just recently decided to try GG. Dude 4 months on ACR and i cannot recall running .. Okay. I don't even say Running Good, never happened. Every time i won somthing it was a struggle. So maybe its just a poker room having some weird stuff going on. I will try GG for a month and share my experience with you.
 
abgvedr

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My last event on ACRwas that 7.5 k bucks, i was playing so good, very carefull, pulled few bluffs here and there, tripled up my stack, and then guess what, flop QJ3 me holding QJ vs dude that limpled from UTG. I bet he calls, turn brick, i bet again he shoves al in i call hes got AQ, river A. And he covered me so i went broke. Thats how i run for 4 months of non stop poker 6 simul mtts.

And then you see those streamers always getting some fantastic action. Sicken me.
 
T

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Good evening! I am going to comment here because I feel a moral obligation to get this out there. If it helps someone, great. So first, my history.. I have made roughly $440,000 in online poker, most of it at poker stars between 2008-2011.
I can state, 100%, without a doubt, that online poker is rigged. ACR specifically has gotten extremely greedy. Not just a bad run or temporary doomswitch. Otherwise Winning players lose years in a row. Anyway, here are a couple of reasons why.

1. The variance argument is extremely flawed. Stick with me here. Variance is huge in 3,000 player fields that are top-heavy. What the current algorithms (ACR specifically) do is not adjust for this small fields. It's very believable that a great player could go on a huge downswing in big MTTs. However, variance in small SNGs should be minimal. If you've got a pro who knows the game of PL08, for example, their ROI should be 50%+ in $6, $3, $1.50, and $0.50 tournaments against people who barely know the game. However, the ACR algorithm doesn't distinguish between games/buyins. If you are Doomswitched, it doesn't matter what you play, and this is their flaw. Any 'good' player should be able to win at these micro stakes. Sure, you might not money in 2/3 or half of them or whatever, but variance should be extremely minimal over the course of 50,100, or even 500 of these tournaments. It's a near mathematical impossibility for a 30% ROI player to consistently lose these games. The sites don't have to rig it so you don't 'know' though, they only have to rig it well enough so you can't prove it.
2. Staking sites. Legit stakers know online poker is rigged. I have seen solid players win big tournaments and then get dropped from their staking deals right after. What kind of sense does that make? It's because legit, experienced stakers know when someone has hit a 'ceiling' and they'll drop them when that happens, when logic would say that if someone just won a big one... this is the best time to keep them. Next time you hear someone (especially on ACR) get dropped off of a staking deal right after they won a big one, remember this.

3. The idea that it is in sites' best interest to be 'fair' is silly. Of course that's not the case. Every dollar made by a pro or semi-pro who withdraws money out of their eco-system is bad for the site. Sure, they need big name players to win big tournaments, and their site pros need to do well... but it is absolutely horrible for the site to have winning players who withdraw money. They take money out of the system and they beat 'fish'. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the easiest... and it's easy to see that winning players are bad for sites.

4. You can see this most readily when someone is sitting out, or when you bluff and have collected a bigger stack than you 'should' have. Let's say you're in a SNG and 7 pay and 8 are left. One guy has been gone the whole tournament and is sitting out. The bait hands you get are incredible if you weren't meant to place in the tourny... or if it's not you, watch AA go up against KK for some other player and watch them get knocked out so that the sitting out guy places. Same kind of concept.. If you bluff and build a stack you're not supposed to have... watch how bad the beats come right after to bring you back down 'on track'... Also.. keep an eye on the person you bluffed... and make sure to fold to them since the algorithm may be trying to feed them monsters to help them catch up.
5. You can verify this with sharkscope.com check out tdubz224, for instance. A great player with great results who was doomswitched for 10,000 tournaments. These weren't big buy in mtts, This guy multi tables $20-$50 tournies, and there is absolutely no way he loses $60,000 in a year playing those stakes. Or, Check out some cash players who've played millions of hands, and are posting graphs of expectation vs result. That's proof for those who are willing to accept it.

Anyway, just wanted to get this off my chest. I am a winning player at ACR and a winning player in general so it does not help me personally to say this, I just want to warn people before they get caught up in the sun runs they give new players... Don't expect these results to continue. It's rigged. Doesn't mean you can't do well or win tournaments at times... but just know there is a cap or ceiling on it and when you hit that, it's all downhill from there and the best player in the world can't stop it.
Anyway. PSA over. Best of luck on the tables... just know the deck is stacked against you.
 
Poker Orifice

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Good evening! I am going to comment here because I feel a moral obligation to get this out there. If it helps someone, great. So first, my history.. I have made roughly $440,000 in Online poker, most of it at Poker Stars between 2008-2011.
I can state, 100%, without a doubt, that online poker is rigged. ACR specifically has gotten extremely greedy. Not just a bad run or temporary doomswitch. Otherwise Winning players lose years in a row. Anyway, here are a couple of reasons why.

1. The variance argument is extremely flawed. Stick with me here. Variance is huge in 3,000 player fields that are top-heavy. What the current algorithms (ACR specifically) do is not adjust for this small fields. It's very believable that a great player could go on a huge downswing in big MTTs. However, variance in small SNGs should be minimal. If you've got a pro who knows the game of PL08, for example, their ROI should be 50%+ in $6, $3, $1.50, and $0.50 tournaments against people who barely know the game. However, the ACR algorithm doesn't distinguish between games/buyins. If you are Doomswitched, it doesn't matter what you play, and this is their flaw. Any 'good' player should be able to win at these micro stakes. Sure, you might not money in 2/3 or half of them or whatever, but variance should be extremely minimal over the course of 50,100, or even 500 of these tournaments. It's a near mathematical impossibility for a 30% ROI player to consistently lose these games. The sites don't have to rig it so you don't 'know' though, they only have to rig it well enough so you can't prove it.
2. Staking sites. Legit stakers know online poker is rigged. I have seen solid players win big tournaments and then get dropped from their staking deals right after. What kind of sense does that make? It's because legit, experienced stakers know when someone has hit a 'ceiling' and they'll drop them when that happens, when logic would say that if someone just won a big one... this is the best time to keep them. Next time you hear someone (especially on ACR) get dropped off of a staking deal right after they won a big one, remember this.

3. The idea that it is in sites' best interest to be 'fair' is silly. Of course that's not the case. Every dollar made by a pro or semi-pro who withdraws money out of their eco-system is bad for the site. Sure, they need big name players to win big tournaments, and their site pros need to do well... but it is absolutely horrible for the site to have winning players who withdraw money. They take money out of the system and they beat 'fish'. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the easiest... and it's easy to see that winning players are bad for sites.

4. You can see this most readily when someone is sitting out, or when you bluff and have collected a bigger stack than you 'should' have. Let's say you're in a SNG and 7 pay and 8 are left. One guy has been gone the whole tournament and is sitting out. The bait hands you get are incredible if you weren't meant to place in the tourny... or if it's not you, watch AA go up against KK for some other player and watch them get knocked out so that the sitting out guy places. Same kind of concept.. If you bluff and build a stack you're not supposed to have... watch how bad the beats come right after to bring you back down 'on track'... Also.. keep an eye on the person you bluffed... and make sure to fold to them since the algorithm may be trying to feed them monsters to help them catch up.
5. You can verify this with sharkscope.com check out tdubz224, for instance. A great player with great results who was doomswitched for 10,000 tournaments. These weren't big buy in mtts, This guy multi tables $20-$50 tournies, and there is absolutely no way he loses $60,000 in a year playing those stakes. Or, Check out some cash players who've played millions of hands, and are posting graphs of expectation vs result. That's proof for those who are willing to accept it.

Anyway, just wanted to get this off my chest. I am a winning player at ACR and a winning player in general so it does not help me personally to say this, I just want to warn people before they get caught up in the sun runs they give new players... Don't expect these results to continue. It's rigged. Doesn't mean you can't do well or win tournaments at times... but just know there is a cap or ceiling on it and when you hit that, it's all downhill from there and the best player in the world can't stop it.
Anyway. PSA over. Best of luck on the tables... just know the deck is stacked against you.

Wow!!! Thanks for the information! I'm actually surprised to hear that a good player (PRO) should be able to have an ROI+30% at micro SnG's (I also didn't know there were many PROs in the $0.50, $1.50 buyin games).
My understanding was that it is actually very difficult to have a +ROI% these days in Sng's, and that most regulars playing in them are often grinding out huge volume of games for leaderboard &/or rakeback $$'s But I don't play them so I don't know for sure (I do know a guy who does still play NLHE Sng's for large volume & seems to struggle to have anything over +1-2% ROI)
 
okeedokalee

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Can we check your stats on Sharkscope? I would like to see evidence of your "roughly $440,000 online winnings, most of it at Poker Stars between 2008-2011".
 
T

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Can we check your stats on Sharkscope? I would like to see evidence of your "roughly $440,000 online winnings, most of it at Poker Stars between 2008-2011".
Good evening! I was verticle5 on pokerstars but I don't think (?) the stats aren't there anymore since my state doesn't allow poker? THose stats would be 14 years old. At least, I can't see them on there. I won entries to a few tournaments (bahamas, London, austria, and Korea ( but switched to new zealand) and won a Barry Greenstein SNG and a couple of other things. Memorable tournies.. I one off bubbled a $10k buyin shoving AK suited against Pearljammer who called with qq and beat me and ended up 3rd I think for 300k or so. I made most of my money playing $50 and $100 Double or nothing SNGs before they got rid of them in January 2011. In fact, I was second in the world in those... and ended up making even more when they broke up a Chinese ring of cheaters and sent me thousands more. I used to play 25 or so of those things at once.

Anyway, all that rambling is just meant to establish that I was in fact there. I have a few poker stars EPT shirts laying around I could probably post a picture of, but I don't know that it proves much... I'd just end it by saying that I have nothing to gain by lying and if I was going to lie, I'd come up with a better story than I've made less than minimum wage in online poker in the last 14 years :)
 
dreamer13

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You can't cheat the fate of poker, but you can change everything with your decisions and actions.It is important to be flexible, adapt to change and look for ways to realize your potential.
In the end, distance will bring everything back.
 
T

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Wow!!! Thanks for the information! I'm actually surprised to hear that a good player (PRO) should be able to have an ROI+30% at micro SnG's (I also didn't know there were many PROs in the $0.50, $1.50 buyin games).
My understanding was that it is actually very difficult to have a +ROI% these days in Sng's, and that most regulars playing in them are often grinding out huge volume of games for leaderboard &/or rakeback $$'s But I don't play them so I don't know for sure (I do know a guy who does still play NLHE Sng's for large volume & seems to struggle to have anything over +1-2% ROI)
Good evening! So.. to be clear, I am not a 'pro'... I have a full time job and just mess around in polker for a little extra cash. With that being said...in a completely fair and non-rigged situation, I would absolutely have a 30% ROI in $6 and under PLO8 sngs ($6, $3, $1.50, $0.50). Not to digress too much, but regular Omaha is much more popular, and so people at those levels playing PLO8 play it similar to PLO, and it's easy to exploit that. Of course... no pro who needs a decent hourly rate would ever mess with micro sngs.... which is all the more reason that someone who is an expert at the game should beat it with no trouble. I truly believe that 30% ROI would be at the very low end of what a good player should get... but to be clear.. that's not an ROI I have. For the record, I just looked, and my ROI at ACR is roughly +12.1% after roughly 26,000 tournies/sngs. That is deceptive though, because when you're doomswitched, You lose the $30 and $20 Sng you're in, and then win the $16. Move down limits, and you lose the $16 and $11 but win the $5. So on and so forth where some players have a pretty decent ROI, but their actual earnings are low and the earnings slope is straight down because of this effect. As I see it, that's another 'flaw' in the doomswitch algorithm. The concept, of course, is correct. Plenty of players can beat $100-$200 live tournies... but then would run up against a wall at nosebleed stakes like $10k buyins. . However, the difference between a $15, $10, and $5 SNG online is VERY minimal, and a winning player with a large bankroll should be getting pretty similar results from each. When one is doomswitched, they are losing at $6 and $3 tournies and then winning $1 tournies to get them close...but not quite... back to where the balance was when they started, and that's if they play that $1 tournament perfectly. This is silly. No one's heart is skipping a beat over making a big call or laydown in a $6 tourny. People are playing them pretty similarly. In fact.. I actually believe that at the most micro stakes, people actually play better than a couple of levels higher. No need to get into that here because its not relevant to the discussion, but there are more bluffs and less predictability in super micros... which is much closer to 'correct'.



Anyway... yes, you are correct about NLHE... most of the money isn't in the SNGs themselves, but in rakebacks, points, free entries, etc. This is crazy though.. ACR has $0.50 no limit Sngs. It's not like you'd need to be world class to beat those with a huge ROI if everything was fair. Tight aggressive, set mine, exploit bad bet sizes and implied pot odds, etc. When it gets down to a few players, become more aggressive and steal pots where no one hits. It's not rocket science. This formula *should* get a decent player a pretty big ROI in those micros. Not that a decent player should be messing around at those levels anyway... but the point is... one theoretically *should* be able to beat them handily with very little 'variance'.

While I'm taking about tournaments... I am not a cash player, but to me the proof there is much more black and white than nuanced tourny stats. I think I mentioned this in my initial post, but I've seen expectation vs result graphs of people who've played a million cash hands. The two lines go in opposite directions. The odds against those results diverging that much by chance are insurmountable. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one. and for those players, it's either that their results are trillion to one aberrations. or the results are not random. Many of these guys (like myself) can squeek by and make a few bucks so aren't going to make too much noise... However, I think that ACR has turned up the dial so much over the last couple of years.. and people's tracking software has gotten so good that it's going to reach a critical mass sooner or later where it's not just some fringe folks saying it's 'rigged'... And when I say 'rigged' I'm not talking about bots.. I'm not talking about some super user being able to see cards... I'm talking about an algorithm that generally will let people win some at first, go on a nice run, and then cap you out and put you on an infinite doomswitch. I know it's cheesy, but if one person reads this and is able to stay away or end a spiral of bad results, then it's been worth it. Best wishes!
 
T

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You can't cheat the fate of poker, but you can change everything with your decisions and actions.It is important to be flexible, adapt to change and look for ways to realize your potential.
In the end, distance will bring everything back.
So... My wife's English teacher had a theory that you could take some sentence.. I forget what it was, but let's just say

"Society becomes __________ when we abandon the __________ that made us ________ in the first place"

He then gave them all a list of 100's of nouns and adjectives and had them fill in random ones, and each statement sounded like the smartest thing you'd ever heard. His point was that sometimes the seemingly smartest sayings actually carry no meaning. I mean no offense here, but your last sentence made me think of that :).

Anyway, with that out of the way, I agree with what you've said. I'd just add that the 'fate' of poker is generally stacked against you if you're playing online, and so your decisions and actions should take that into account. One realizing their potential may need to involve switching sites, or dropping a doomswitched account and starting over somewhere else, or whatever. Poker is a grind as it is... but people should know that there is an additional uphill battle when it comes to playing online and act accordingly.
 
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Good evening! I was verticle5 on Pokerstars but I don't think (?) the stats aren't there anymore since my state doesn't allow poker? THose stats would be 14 years old. At least, I can't see them on there. I won entries to a few tournaments (bahamas, London, austria, and Korea ( but switched to new zealand) and won a Barry Greenstein SNG and a couple of other things. Memorable tournies.. I one off bubbled a $10k buyin shoving AK suited against Pearljammer who called with qq and beat me and ended up 3rd I think for 300k or so. I made most of my money playing $50 and $100 Double or nothing SNGs before they got rid of them in January 2011. In fact, I was second in the world in those... and ended up making even more when they broke up a Chinese ring of cheaters and sent me thousands more. I used to play 25 or so of those things at once.

Anyway, all that rambling is just meant to establish that I was in fact there. I have a few poker stars EPT shirts laying around I could probably post a picture of, but I don't know that it proves much... I'd just end it by saying that I have nothing to gain by lying and if I was going to lie, I'd come up with a better story than I've made less than minimum wage in online poker in the last 14 years :)
I had a user name 'vectile' at the old poker stars and that may have been mine from 09-11, I really don't recall Im not sure how to search for all that anymore.. I also played at FT and a couple of other places so I don't remember which place had which name.... but that one should show something at the old stars if verticle5 does not.
 
Poker Orifice

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Do you still have your autographed book from Barry?
 
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Do you still have your autographed book from Barry?
I'm sure I do somewhere but haven't seen it in 15+years, and I started knocking down stuff in the closet and drew the ire of my wife so I'll leave it for now. I did find my pokerstars shirt from the bahamas so I took a zoom picture of it and emailed it from my work computer and here it is (maybe?) This is the one ELKY won for about a mil. Shirt is made by Gildan, ultra cotton, 100%, made in Honduras. As far as proof of credentials, the shirt probably means more than signed book anyway. The Barry thing always felt a little insincere TBH. I did win the SNG and a couple thousand bucks, but I wasn't even the one who KO'd him so it never hit hard.. I think it just said congrats and good luck. Nice and all, but not like a Babe Ruth signed baseball or anything either
 

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T

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I'm sure I do somewhere but haven't seen it in 15+years, and I started knocking down stuff in the closet and drew the ire of my wife so I'll leave it for now. I did find my pokerstars shirt from the bahamas so I took a zoom picture of it and emailed it from my work computer and here it is (maybe?) This is the one ELKY won for about a mil. Shirt is made by Gildan, ultra cotton, 100%, made in Honduras. As far as proof of credentials, the shirt probably means more than signed book anyway. The Barry thing always felt a little insincere TBH. I did win the SNG and a couple thousand bucks, but I wasn't even the one who KO'd him so it never hit hard.. I think it just said congrats and good luck. Nice and all, but not like a Babe Ruth signed baseball or anything either
Actually, the article doesn't show anymore, but if you google my user name and his, the headline still comes up. I think they took all these articles down after Black Friday.1736879449761
 
Poker Orifice

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Actually, the article doesn't show anymore, but if you google my user name and his, the headline still comes up. I think they took all these articles down after Black Friday.View attachment 376273
I found a number of articles/threads/posts going back to 2p2 in 2007 I think it was.

Where are you playing now? And while I'm at it >> have you played on Global? Reason I ask is I've seen a guy who was a mod. on a streamer I follow making a go of it in LowStakes MTT on Global and he's doing quite well on it. I also noticed another streamer who is doing poorly on most sites except for Global where the graph is a steady climb upward with no big scores just steady positive results (fwiw, watching this guy for a short period of time, I can't say my thought process was coinciding with his).

TLDR Global seems soft. I've never played there. Have you?
 
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Good afternoon! I have not played at Global yet but I recently got a login just to try it out. Software is a big deal for me and also needs a big player pool. At first glance software seems fine... but I'd note that my micro SNGs are taking a while to fill. Also, late registration is huge for me. If I am logging on at 9:00 after the kids go to bed, I need to 'catch-up' and want to load 12-15 Trny right away that are already deep, I don't want to wait 12 min for the first one to start, etc. That's not to hate on GP, that's just my initial impression that it hasn't reached critical mass with some of those things. Late registration needs to be easy and multi-tabling needs to be seamless. Anyway, I would not be surprised if something like GP was not rigged so I could see it being worthwhile to give it a shot. For people who really want to play but don't want to waste a lot of cash on the front end finding out what's legit and what's not... GP seems to start you off with a fair number of chips to mess around risk-free, and it looks like they add a few each day you log in. All that being said, I see it as more of an option for recreation and fun... maybe you make a few bucks here and there... but I doubt there are a ton of people making a living on it like at Stars back in the day.
 
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