€ NL HE MTT: pocket 88s

[PoorGypsy]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Freeroll

1. Freeroll

Game Options

1. Rebuy

Currency

€

It's live tournament. Rebuy time is closed. We are 2 last tables, around 17 people. I have 40bb stack (I think prety dicent for this stage of a tournament)

blinds 500/1500 with an ante 1500 I'm LJ (pot 4 500)

UTG limps (1500) stack around 60bb
UTG +1 stack also 60bb raises to 5000 (around 3 bb) probably, if there whould be no limper he will do 2.5bb

We are 7 at the table

I have pocket 88, I call
UTG (loose player) calls

Flop QJ6 rainbow everyone ckecks
TURN card is 2

UTG checks
UTG +1 (original raiser bets 5000)

I decide to fold because I thought he could have a J that he was afraid to bet on a flop,

UTG calls

so on The river glop is QJ627 all rainbow

UTG ckecks
UTG +1 bets 5000
UTG calls

UTG show pocket 44
UTG+1 A9s

UTG wins

And I'm like "WHAT?"

In the end pot was 38,500, that I could win. ( around 25bb)

Is it was weak decision to fold 88s after original raiser did'nt made ccbet on a flop?

Is that was good play with pocket 44?

 

[Bhargav]

I think you played right at that moment. You will miss so many pots like that in poker. You cannot win always, thinking like that is not correct.
UTG got lucky that's it. And you came out with small loss that is good.

 

[eetenor]

It's live tournament. Rebuy time is closed. We are 2 last tables, around 17 people. I have 40bb stack (I think prety dicent for this stage of a tournament)

blinds 500/1500 with an ante 1500 I'm LJ (pot 4 500)

UTG limps (1500) stack around 60bb
UTG +1 stack also 60bb raises to 5000 (around 3 bb) probably, if there whould be no limper he will do 2.5bb

We are 7 at the table

I have pocket 88, I call
UTG (loose player) calls

Flop QJ6 rainbow everyone ckecks
TURN card is 2

UTG checks
UTG +1 (original raiser bets 5000)

I decide to fold because I thought he could have a J that he was afraid to bet on a flop,

UTG calls

so on The river glop is QJ627 all rainbow

UTG ckecks
UTG +1 bets 5000
UTG calls

UTG show pocket 44
UTG+1 A9s

UTG wins

And I'm like "WHAT?"

In the end pot was 38,500, that I could win. ( around 25bb)

Is it was weak decision to fold 88s after original raiser did'nt made ccbet on a flop?

Is that was good play with pocket 44?

1 When we get to 17 players left ICM strategies are very useful- to use ICM strategies we need to know how good our 40bb stack is vs all other stacks. Are we 6th of 17 or 14th-- Where you play do they have a board display with average stack etc? Do you take a moment to get up from the table to look at everyone's stack?
ICM helps us understand how aggressive we can be preflop- would 88 be a good 3 bet in this spot? Can we set mine or should we just fold 88 or can we shove 88 putting max pressure on the 2 60bb stacks?

ICM maybe a good study point for you.

 

[eetenor]

It's live tournament. Rebuy time is closed. We are 2 last tables, around 17 people. I have 40bb stack (I think prety dicent for this stage of a tournament)

blinds 500/1500 with an ante 1500 I'm LJ (pot 4 500)

UTG limps (1500) stack around 60bb
UTG +1 stack also 60bb raises to 5000 (around 3 bb) probably, if there whould be no limper he will do 2.5bb

We are 7 at the table

I have pocket 88, I call
UTG (loose player) calls

Flop QJ6 rainbow everyone ckecks
TURN card is 2

UTG checks
UTG +1 (original raiser bets 5000)

I decide to fold because I thought he could have a J that he was afraid to bet on a flop,

UTG calls

so on The river glop is QJ627 all rainbow

UTG ckecks
UTG +1 bets 5000
UTG calls

UTG show pocket 44
UTG+1 A9s

UTG wins

And I'm like "WHAT?"

In the end pot was 38,500, that I could win. ( around 25bb)

Is it was weak decision to fold 88s after original raiser did'nt made ccbet on a flop?

Is that was good play with pocket 44?

Not a good play with 44---standard live bad play we want to take note they have that kind of hand in their range. We also want to not how many other players do the same. Is it 10% 50% more?
A9s also standard live play as well---we need to note that
ICM has us fold most often the 88 to protect for future action however solver does call 30% of the time. So call vs these ranges is fine.
We want to be thinking beyond hitting our hand to win the pot when we call though and if we do not then we should be folding preflop.
Beyond hitting means can we attack weakness and win the pot and how would we do that? If we do not think we can steal some % of pots just fold

This hand is a great example of that second strategy of attacking weakness--We have position we have a pair- the board hits our range everyone checks to us. We can try to win this pot right now on the flop by betting - If we do not win the pot on flop after we bet - we can still attack turn- if you think the V has a JX hand we can make them fold it on turn by bluffing twice or if we do check back we can then often showdown and win that way. Again if you think you cannot get any weak pair above an 8 to fold -just fold preflop.

so at 40 bb if we call with 88 we want to be thinking 2 ways to win when IP- hit and steal.

As played the turn bet is too small for us to fold
Your read on the turn seems to be trying to find a reason to fold- the pot is 19500 and the V bets 5000 that is not a protection bet with a jack most often it is what it was, a blocker bet. The pot is 24500 we are getting 5 to 1 to call and the V may not bet again. In live MTT we cannot fold to weak bets our V play way to face up on turns by betting strong value larger most often larger may be only 7k but it is seldom 5k JJ QQ knows Ax folds the turn to any bet so they bet 7k 8k 9k to charge KT JT or to get the draws to fold if they have AJ 99 etc

As I stated earlier solver folds 88 most often- if we call, we have to be willing to take the above actions with our hand- otherwise it is best to just fold preflop and play much tighter ICM strategies.

Great job sharing your hands

 

[PoorGypsy]

I think you played right at that moment. You will miss so many pots like that in poker. You cannot win always, thinking like that is not correct.
UTG got lucky that's it. And you came out with small loss that is good.

Yeah, my thought was also that I played correct. But also I thought that I could get better read when UTG+1 checked the flop( and then bet only 1/3 on a turn

 

[PoorGypsy]

1 When we get to 17 players left ICM strategies are very useful- to use ICM strategies we need to know how good our 40bb stack is vs all other stacks. Are we 6th of 17 or 14th-- Where you play do they have a board display with average stack etc? Do you take a moment to get up from the table to look at everyone's stack?
ICM helps us understand how aggressive we can be preflop- would 88 be a good 3 bet in this spot? Can we set mine or should we just fold 88 or can we shove 88 putting max pressure on the 2 60bb stacks?

ICM maybe a good study point for you.

yeah, thank you for a good comment. my stack wasn't good for that point I was lower then average we plated for 5 tickets 150 dollar each. I won actually that tournament but it's because i doubled up with AJ when I was already the shortest and we were one person away from the tickets, probably if I play with that 88 till the end or more agressive I could just sit and wait till one person out.

 

[PoorGypsy]

Not a good play with 44---standard live bad play we want to take note they have that kind of hand in their range. We also want to not how many other players do the same. Is it 10% 50% more?
A9s also standard live play as well---we need to note that
ICM has us fold most often the 88 to protect for future action however solver does call 30% of the time. So call vs these ranges is fine.
We want to be thinking beyond hitting our hand to win the pot when we call though and if we do not then we should be folding preflop.
Beyond hitting means can we attack weakness and win the pot and how would we do that? If we do not think we can steal some % of pots just fold

This hand is a great example of that second strategy of attacking weakness--We have position we have a pair- the board hits our range everyone checks to us. We can try to win this pot right now on the flop by betting - If we do not win the pot on flop after we bet - we can still attack turn- if you think the V has a JX hand we can make them fold it on turn by bluffing twice or if we do check back we can then often showdown and win that way. Again if you think you cannot get any weak pair above an 8 to fold -just fold preflop.

so at 40 bb if we call with 88 we want to be thinking 2 ways to win when IP- hit and steal.

As played the turn bet is too small for us to fold
Your read on the turn seems to be trying to find a reason to fold- the pot is 19500 and the V bets 5000 that is not a protection bet with a jack most often it is what it was, a blocker bet. The pot is 24500 we are getting 5 to 1 to call and the V may not bet again. In live MTT we cannot fold to weak bets our V play way to face up on turns by betting strong value larger most often larger may be only 7k but it is seldom 5k JJ QQ knows Ax folds the turn to any bet so they bet 7k 8k 9k to charge KT JT or to get the draws to fold if they have AJ 99 etc

As I stated earlier solver folds 88 most often- if we call, we have to be willing to take the above actions with our hand- otherwise it is best to just fold preflop and play much tighter ICM strategies.

Great job sharing your hands

Graet thoughts about how I should play in that spot. Thank you very much. You are right I had the thought that bet is to small and it doesn't look like value but still I was scared probably and yeah I just found reason to fold.