€ NL HE MTT: Going All in, fold or just call?

[PoorGypsy]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Freeroll

1. Freeroll

Game Options

1. Rebuy

Currency

€

Okay. So
2 last hands before addon (I'mvery often loose in this moments)
I'm UTG I have 24 000 stack blinds are 1000/500 I see AQof in my hand.
And I rase to 2.5 bb 2500

Player with a big stack (4 times bigger then mine) on HJ raise me to 7500

My thought process - "After the breack blinds will be 1000/1500. So if I call and miss the flop I will have 16 500 (11bb). I do not want to do addon. I'm sure he doesn't have AA or KK. He can do it with JJ, QQ and AK, even if he has KK I still can hit an A or 2 pair, so I move all in."

He snap calls with QQ I didn't hit an Ace so I'm out of the tournament.

So do I thought wrong? What should I do better in this case?

 

[Fuchun]

It's a bad idea if you know if you fall behind before you flip a card, but insist on going in to hand your fate to the system. If you chip better than him, it's definitely worth a shot

 

[monkeytilter]

If you have any indication villain is 3 betting wide or you aren't too confident playing OOP then a jam is OK at that stack depth IMHO.

It's a bit tricky being a freeroll, villains spew and over value hands, so AQ works as a jam, in better games you'd be better off calling and playing a flop. The problem being against better players is 4 bet shove only gets called by hands you are behind to.

I wouldn't worry you made a horrible error here, it wasn't too major. One thing take away though is have a clear line you want to follow Vs 3 bets before you open.

 

[PoorGypsy]

It's a bad idea if you know if you fall behind before you flip a card, but insist on going in to hand your fate to the system. If you chip better than him, it's definitely worth a shot

smart thought but a bit tricky to understand)

 

[PoorGypsy]

If you have any indication villain is 3 betting wide or you aren't too confident playing OOP then a jam is OK at that stack depth IMHO.

It's a bit tricky being a freeroll, villains spew and over value hands, so AQ works as a jam, in better games you'd be better off calling and playing a flop. The problem being against better players is 4 bet shove only gets called by hands you are behind to.

I wouldn't worry you made a horrible error here, it wasn't too major. One thing take away though is have a clear line you want to follow Vs 3 bets before you open.

Thank you))) Good analysis as usual

 

[choprav]

Okay. So
2 last hands before addon (I'mvery often loose in this moments)
I'm UTG I have 24 000 stack blinds are 1000/500 I see AQof in my hand.
And I rase to 2.5 bb 2500

Player with a big stack (4 times bigger then mine) on HJ raise me to 7500

My thought process - "After the breack blinds will be 1000/1500. So if I call and miss the flop I will have 16 500 (11bb). I do not want to do addon. I'm sure he doesn't have AA or KK. He can do it with JJ, QQ and AK, even if he has KK I still can hit an A or 2 pair, so I move all in."

He snap calls with QQ I didn't hit an Ace so I'm out of the tournament.

So do I thought wrong? What should I do better in this case?

Fold wait for a better hand pair or Ak to jam and double up after they add on they play very wide

 

[PoorGypsy]

Fold wait for a better hand pair or Ak to jam and double up after they add on they play very wide

yeah, you are right. that ws torisky decision

 

[Bhargav]

you played fine being shot stacked. it can go anyway.
you can fold too, but again you have to wait for the same premium hands to come or better like JJ+, AJ+,ATs+.

if you are close to ITM then fold is good option. because you can wait till 5-8bb.

 

[phantoma69]

You should just call if u wanted to addon later, if u didnt want to buy addon anyway, then ill do the same honestly!

 

[eetenor]

Okay. So
2 last hands before addon (I'mvery often loose in this moments)
I'm UTG I have 24 000 stack blinds are 1000/500 I see AQof in my hand.
And I rase to 2.5 bb 2500

Player with a big stack (4 times bigger then mine) on HJ raise me to 7500

My thought process - "After the breack blinds will be 1000/1500. So if I call and miss the flop I will have 16 500 (11bb). I do not want to do addon. I'm sure he doesn't have AA or KK. He can do it with JJ, QQ and AK, even if he has KK I still can hit an A or 2 pair, so I move all in."

He snap calls with QQ I didn't hit an Ace so I'm out of the tournament.

So do I thought wrong? What should I do better in this case?

1 we have 24bb just before add-on and we are not doing the add-on why are we playing loose? Our V are not going to over fold they are just going to be more passive preflop IP not good for us to loosen up into that most often---It is not bubble play at add-on time most often.
2 Few players become more aggressive with their 3 bets because of an add-on they tighten up.
3 Why are you sure they do not have AA or KK there is nothing indicative of the action that says they would not.
4 AQoff sucks vs the range you describe-- we need them to be raising 99+ AJs Kjs etc for us to even think about shoving AQo
5 Your original statement was you loosen up which means you think your villains are over folding but this v attacked your raise instead and then showed you a top of range hand. In fact you ranged your V at the top of their range if you know the range is correct based on typical play in your mtt fold AQo--call AQs

 

[PoorGypsy]

1 we have 24bb just before add-on and we are not doing the add-on why are we playing loose? Our V are not going to over fold they are just going to be more passive preflop IP not good for us to loosen up into that most often---It is not bubble play at add-on time most often.
2 Few players become more aggressive with their 3 bets because of an add-on they tighten up.
3 Why are you sure they do not have AA or KK there is nothing indicative of the action that says they would not.
4 AQoff sucks vs the range you describe-- we need them to be raising 99+ AJs Kjs etc for us to even think about shoving AQo
5 Your original statement was you loosen up which means you think your villains are over folding but this v attacked your raise instead and then showed you a top of range hand. In fact you ranged your V at the top of their range if you know the range is correct based on typical play in your mtt fold AQo--call AQs

Yeah, you are right, that was to loose and to luck orienteed play.

I do today preety same shity decision with KK on a live 150 dollar buy in tournament.

I had around 60bb and everyone has more or less same on my table.

UTG raised to 1200 its around 2.2 blinds (bilnds are 200/500) I have red KK I 3 bet on MP to 3200. Everyone folds except BB and UTG, who 4bets to 11000 (At this point I knew he has AA) but I still called and suprisingly BB too. Flop is 443 two hearts. UTG checks his cards and bets again 9000 I think I should fold, because most probably he checked that he has A of hearts but I still hope to catch a K and I call, actually BB too. Pot is huge (around 60 000) and on a turn comes 5 of diamond. UTG shoves and prety fast I call (because I'm not able to fold a KK on a turn even so I lnow I'm dead) and of course I see AA. BB finaly folds, I still don't understand what she had. I hope for the river which comes J of diamond It didn't helped and I'm out.

Interesting what would you say on that??

 

[eetenor]

Yeah, you are right, that was to loose and to luck orienteed play.

I do today preety same shity decision with KK on a live 150 dollar buy in tournament.

I had around 60bb and everyone has more or less same on my table.

UTG raised to 1200 its around 2.2 blinds (bilnds are 200/500) I have red KK I 3 bet on MP to 3200. Everyone folds except BB and UTG, who 4bets to 11000 (At this point I knew he has AA) but I still called and suprisingly BB too. Flop is 443 two hearts. UTG checks his cards and bets again 9000 I think I should fold, because most probably he checked that he has A of hearts but I still hope to catch a K and I call, actually BB too. Pot is huge (around 60 000) and on a turn comes 5 of diamond. UTG shoves and prety fast I call (because I'm not able to fold a KK on a turn even so I lnow I'm dead) and of course I see AA. BB finaly folds, I still don't understand what she had. I hope for the river which comes J of diamond It didn't helped and I'm out.

Interesting what would you say on that??

"I'm UTG I have 24 000 stack blinds are 1000/500 that is 24bb not 60bb" this is your statement from above
If you had 60 bb the shove is not a good play at all vs the range you describe. You always want to be 4 betting AQo to fold to 5 bets if you are going to continue at 60bb effective however if you can range your V to the range you chose and be correct just fold AQo and call AQs

 

[PoorGypsy]

"I'm UTG I have 24 000 stack blinds are 1000/500 that is 24bb not 60bb" this is your statement from above
If you had 60 bb the shove is not a good play at all vs the range you describe. You always want to be 4 betting AQo to fold to 5 bets if you are going to continue at 60bb effective however if you can range your V to the range you chose and be correct just fold AQo and call AQs

check it again I wrote that blinds are 200/500 + ante 500

 

[PoorGypsy]

"I'm UTG I have 24 000 stack blinds are 1000/500 that is 24bb not 60bb" this is your statement from above
If you had 60 bb the shove is not a good play at all vs the range you describe. You always want to be 4 betting AQo to fold to 5 bets if you are going to continue at 60bb effective however if you can range your V to the range you chose and be correct just fold AQo and call AQs

and I wrote youa story about completeely different hand and tournament))

 

[eetenor]

and I wrote youa story about completeely different hand and tournament)

I am sorry about the confusion 🙇‍♂️I missed that you switched to another hand in this thread. When playing vs players who are so face up with their hands that we know that their range is AA KK 90% of the time and AK the rest we can fold KK preflop.
the question is can you be certain of your reads--are your V really as tight as your ranges--if yes then big folds preflop are ok. If we are unsure preflop but the action post flop is screaming AA fold then is fine as well.

When playing live poker we get reads on players by their body language--that may be what indicated AA to you--trust that read make the fold---if you are wrong reevaluate your reads.

folding in MTT and being wrong is much less of a mistake at your stack depth than calling and being right "yes they had AA" and losing your ability to keep playing.

 

[PoorGypsy]

I am sorry about the confusion 🙇‍♂️I missed that you switched to another hand in this thread. When playing vs players who are so face up with their hands that we know that their range is AA KK 90% of the time and AK the rest we can fold KK preflop.
the question is can you be certain of your reads--are your V really as tight as your ranges--if yes then big folds preflop are ok. If we are unsure preflop but the action post flop is screaming AA fold then is fine as well.

When playing live poker we get reads on players by their body language--that may be what indicated AA to you--trust that read make the fold---if you are wrong reevaluate your reads.

folding in MTT and being wrong is much less of a mistake at your stack depth than calling and being right "yes they had AA" and losing your ability to keep playing.

yeah, it was so sad, I knew all the way that he is better then me (because this 3 times bigger 4 bet was screaming he has AA), but still I was like "my hand is to strong to fold preflop". Then I was like "I invest to much to this pot Idtill can be wrong and can hit smth" And then I was just unable to fold. It's a big mistake. I play only 6 monthes and it's some times hard to believe my own reads, so I go for that big mistakes, probably, to remeber forever how bad move I made and hope I never made it again((

 

[Tadi]

From what you have written I can conclude that you are a good player, you analyze your moves studiously and I believe that you will make good results. In poker, risk is an integral part of the game. Now you have lost with these cards, the second time you will win with them, it is difficult to accurately predict the outcome. You are aware of your moves, you don't play randomly and that's good, I'm pretty sure you'll succeed.

 

[PoorGypsy]

From what you have written I can conclude that you are a good player, you analyze your moves studiously and I believe that you will make good results. In poker, risk is an integral part of the game. Now you have lost with these cards, the second time you will win with them, it is difficult to accurately predict the outcome. You are aware of your moves, you don't play randomly and that's good, I'm pretty sure you'll succeed.

Thank you for good words)))