MTT Holdem, A10s UTG 6 at table - your move

[Ronaldadio]

Hi guys.

I think I know the answer to this, but out of interest I want your views.

MTT $10, 178 entries, pays top 20. 12 left. 6 at my table 6 at other. I have about 16000 chips and I`m in 9th place. At my table there is one big stack on about 33k and 3 on less chips than me. The bb has about 18000.

I have been playing very tight but when we got down to the final 30 I started to turn up the pressure. My table image, if they are taking notice, is TAG - In the last 20 mins when I have been in a showdown I have won with 1010 and AQ. The table has been playing very passive - ppl pushing when they have a hand (I wish I had the hand history!!!)

So, I`m delt A10s UTG. Blinds are 1200/600. What would be your move - check out the poll...

 

[tosborn]

I posted in an earlier thread that I have been 3-betting lately, but, this is an instance where I don't necessarily want any callers and would just assume to take the blinds down right now. 6-handed I raise to 5BB (6000) and evaluate.

 

[Ronaldadio]

R u going to pot that on my poll???

 

[tosborn]

I picked raise an amount other than all-in.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Umm raising to 6k is pretty much the worst thing you can do here. If one of the smaller (assume ~10-12k) stacks shoves, you will be committed to call.

Raise 3bbs and fold to a shove from anywhere unless someone who is very short shoves and we have to call. There's no need to raise more, shoving is a little excessive with over 13bbs, limping is terrible and folding is a little too weak-tight 6-handed.

 

[tosborn]

I disagree. Chances are our hand is not going to be that strong post flop. Without knowing the actual chipstacks. I assumed that one of the two blinds are stacked bigger than us. We don't want to get called here. I don't want to price a marginal hand in. We gain more information from the 5BB raise than we would with a 3BB raise.

 

[titans4ever]

I posted in an earlier thread that I have been 3-betting lately, but, this is an instance where I don't necessarily want any callers and would just assume to take the blinds down right now. 6-handed I raise to 5BB (6000) and evaluate.

You just committed over 1/3 your stack. He is slightly shortstacked having just over 15BB left himself. You bet 3 BB and if forced to fold then you still have 12 and can survive till that next good hand or hope one or two more bust out.

You bet 5 BB and now you have left yourself with less than 10 at a shorthanded table that is not going anywhere for awhile. You just cut your life support shorter by at least 6 hands. TB also pointed out that by betting that amount you almost forced yourself to call any all-in move by a shorter stack. Why not raise all-in and put the decision on them to call your raise instead of letting themput the pressure on you. This way you can't get scared off when they have something like KQ and push. If you decided to fold, then you just wasted 2BB donation to a short stack that you don't want to give any more money than needed to or a present to a bigger stack. Those 2 extra BB would be great to have when you go all-in and get 2 callers.

 

[Ronaldadio]

titans

So in your opinion, its either a 3 times bb raise then fold 2 pressure, or your 2nd choice would be all in???

Only asking because I pushed all in. So it was not an absolout stupid move by me?

 

[Lafaena]

Agree with dorkus on this one. 3 times bb fold to a push. A10s is a fine hand to take a flop with in my oppinion.

 

[tenbob]

So in your opinion, its either a 3 times bb raise then fold 2 pressure, or your 2nd choice would be all in???

Only asking because I pushed all in. So it was not an absolout stupid move by me?

Thats fine, i still think you have a little leverage, folding is weak-tight, limping is out of the question 6 handed, as Chris said i think a standard raise here is fine, if the table has been routinely folding to min raises then you could argue thats the best option even though the thought of it makes me shiver.

Raise 3xBB reevaluate futher action agiaint aggression.

 

[ChuckTs]

I disagree. Chances are our hand is not going to be that strong post flop. Without knowing the actual chipstacks. I assumed that one of the two blinds are stacked bigger than us. We don't want to get called here. I don't want to price a marginal hand in. We gain more information from the 5BB raise than we would with a 3BB raise.

MTT $10, 178 entries, pays top 20. 12 left. 6 at my table 6 at other. I have about 16000 chips and I`m in 9th place. At my table there is one big stack on about 33k and 3 on less chips than me. The bb has about 18000.

I gotta agree that 6BB is a terrible bet; all you're doing by betting that much is committing your entire stack. The only result you'll get is a better hand pushing you (and you'll have to call), and worse hands folding. We might lure in worse hands with a 3BB bet, though I'm not sure I like that risk at this point; we're sitting so short in chips and no doubt the blinds are about to hop up to 1000/2000 really soon. If we bet 3BB and get bet into on say a KQx flop, we're going to have to fold and go into push/fold mode.

I think I prefer a push here...we can probably push out some better hands and pairs we'd normally be racing with.

Sticky situation, though.

 

[Ronaldadio]

I think I prefer a push here...we can probably push out some better hands and pairs we'd normally be racing with.

This is deserving of a post on its own. I think its the first time Chuck has agreed with me

The outcome was I went all in, everyone folded to the bb. He hesitated and then called - he was risking all but about 2000 of him chips. He turned AJ

I got excited at the flop as the board paired. But that was as good as it got out!!!

I`m trying to stick to a tight game but I`m trying to introduce more aggression at the right time. I was trying to find out if you guys thought I was being overly aggressive by pushing here. I did contemplate folding (weak), flat calling (weak and a decision to be made as to call the raise or fold, so, IMO, a waste of chips), raising 3 times bb (2nd choice eventualy) but for some reason the push felt right.

 

[Irexes]

I fold. There's not a lot of difference raising ATo here and any two cards.

You are folding to a reraise and if you get a call you are going to be worried about any flop with an Ace in it and probably behind any flop without an ace.

Position is killing you here even 6 handed because you have so few options post flop and are a sitting duck for anyone with decent hand preflop or anyone who connects with the flop.

I'd much rather be playing with position cut-off or button, and poorer cards TJ, JQ, KJ, A8 here than with semi-decent cards and 5 to act.


Can't fault a small raise though there's a little bit of room to wait here I think.

 

[titans4ever]

The knife cuts both ways.

You push with this hand and you get caught by AJ or AQ about half the time and the other half is A7 or A8 calling. I just hate pushing when you have 3 players below you and the money gets better with each person falling out. You still have enough time to find that spot where it is better for you to push. I don't like doing it in EP with everyone still to act. That is a lot of hands to try to scare off.

The cards are ok to do it, I just don't like the situation (EP and 3 smaller stacks) by a tournament management decision.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

I fold. There's not a lot of difference raising ATo here and any two cards.

But it's sooooooooted!

Just curious, what's your minimum raising requirement in the situation posted if you're not raising with AT? Do you raise UTG with AJ(s) here?

 

[Irexes]

But it's sooooooooted!

Just curious, what's your minimum raising requirement in the situation posted if you're not raising with AT? Do you raise UTG with AJ(s) here?

Oooo good question.....

Errrrrrrrrrrr...............

Depends on payout structure a lot this late in a tourney, but generally I'm looking at the aggression of the players in the blinds and the cut off as well as their stack sizes. I want a hand that I'm not automatically folding to a reraise and I'm not reluctantly calling a shortstack due to pot odds when he has AQ or TT+. AT just seems like a great opportunity to become a donater late in a tourney because it's too good a hand to let go shorthanded... I'm not answering the question.....

hmmmm..... "it depends" won't cut it I suspect....

99-TT I'd raise 3x bb it's going to look good on a lot of flop if called and is only dominated by the big pairs and will have good value against a shorter stack reraise but would be laydownable against a reraise from a big stack.

AJ I limp or fold or raise depending on a lot of things that I won't go into because I'll be playing final tables with you at some point and you'll remember.

AQ I'd raise 3xbb. Really looking for a nice flop though cause I'm betting out on the flop regardless if called.

JJ I'd push, I don't want a call and then an overcard on the flop, if it's QQ+ then so be it.

QQ either push or 3xbb depending.

KK and AA I might get really cheeky with.

So much depends on the table and the payout (i used bold ir clver). But I want to be master of my own destiny as far as possible rather than run into a situation where I'm pushing my chips in dominated.

I may or may not have answered the question

 

[Ronaldadio]

Ironically...

I`ve just been knocked out of a tourny in 67th place out of 680. (Made the money)

The nose dive, however, started in a similar situation to the above.

12 times bb left. I was delt 1010 UTG. Raised 3 times bb. Big stack in middle position (of 10) pushed me all in. I folded, leaving me with 9 times bb. After the blinds I was down to 7 times bb (called in sb with A6s and lots of limpers)

Then the blinds increased meaning I only had about 4 times bb.

So my thoughts are stronger now that I should have pushed all in. Also, after this, I feel I was right to push all in with the above example - push the decision onto them.

I think if u don`t push all in u r going to get pushed out of pots by the big stacks with 2 overs/ 2 smaller pair. This is my opinion, for what its worth

 

[Irexes]

I folded, leaving me with 9 times bb. After the blinds I was down to 7 times bb (called in sb with A6s and lots of limpers)

Push here. Tremendous value and oodles of fold equity.

 

[Lafaena]

Im not sure if i like the push here. If you push and expect only to be called by better hands and sometimes by a race(88 99 mabye 77) is it really worth it?
You add 1800 to your stack of 16000 if everything goes after plan, but i dont know if it does often enough.