$Freeroll NLHE MTT: KQs early position push?

[ammje]

Hello, friends, was playing Cardschat league in homegames, and had this situation:
It was on a table 5 players, 2 players for final table, I had KQs in early position with 17BB, I push and the villain in BB call me, and lost.

I have a question if it was correct that push with 17BB, or was a better option, open raise X2, and evaluate the flop?.

https://www.boomplayer.com/29419120_A0121FF73B
Thank you for your advices. :stupido:

 

[liuouhgkres]

You had 19bb, not 17bb. Either way not a big fan of your play, I personally start shoving from 14bb. Also, if you to build a shoving range with 17-20bb, I wouldn't include KQs in shoving range, but rather put in open raising range, because it is a great hand for postflop.

 

[greatgame230]

Hi, I think the play was a raise of x2.5 and wait for the flop, then a continuation bet of 2.5 the player probably just call and already on the turn check and fold if the villain was betting, but as I always say it is very easy to see the repetition and give an opinion after seeing everything, however that is what I would have done

 

[ammje]

You had 19bb, not 17bb. Either way not a big fan of your play, I personally start shoving from 14bb. Also, if you to build a shoving range with 17-20bb, I wouldn't include KQs in shoving range, but rather put in open raising range, because it is a great hand for postflop.

I think you have not seen good, I had 17BB, also reviews how many chips had the BB, I would defend with everything.
I think the villain with 88, I was going to 3bet, and anyway, the hand had done the same.

 

[Ryan Laplante]

Too many BB to shove with a hand like this. Strongly prefer to open and then fold to a 3bet.

 

[ammje]

Thanks for the advice, protential, I think I've been making mistakes then I will not commit.

 

[Ovuvuevuevue]

Your M was slightly higher than 8, giving you some breathing room. The issue I have with the play is your M was higher than the typical shoving range which means this hand should have been a raise. Second, KQ is a drawing hand, meaning it lacks the strength of pocket pairs which means you're just gambling on finding a king or a queen. Third, you're in early position, so your opponents could all have aces or kings or whatever. Even pocket deuces can beat AK, so that's my opinion on shoving KQ. 8 orbits left given your stack is a long time to find a better hand and a better position.

 

[ammje]

Your M was slightly higher than 8, giving you some breathing room. The issue I have with the play is your M was higher than the typical shoving range which means this hand should have been a raise. Second, KQ is a drawing hand, meaning it lacks the strength of pocket pairs which means you're just gambling on finding a king or a queen. Third, you're in early position, so your opponents could all have aces or kings or whatever. Even pocket deuces can beat AK, so that's my opinion on shoving KQ. 8 orbits left given your stack is a long time to find a better hand and a better position.

Thanks for your advice, maybe rush me, I thought it was good move as it was a table of 5 players, plus the villain who was in the BB, had a lot of chips and was very aggressive, so why take that decision, the future I will take more time before making such a move.

The funny thing is that, I raised that hand, to a forum in Spanish, and there they told me that the push was fine, open raise was not a good option, with 17bb.

 

[Ovuvuevuevue]

Thanks for your advice, maybe rush me, I thought it was good move as it was a table of 5 players, plus the villain who was in the BB, had a lot of chips and was very aggressive, so why take that decision, the future I will take more time before making such a move.

The funny thing is that, I raised that hand, to a forum in Spanish, and there they told me that the push was fine, open raise was not a good option, with 17bb.

You're right, I had forgotten the number of players at the table. To me that improves the decision you took, so it could have just been bad luck. Others might interpret it as the need to play even tighter, so it depends on your playstyle. I see merit in both decisions so don't worry about it too much

 

[liuouhgkres]

wtf, when I opened first time it was showing that you had 3800+ chips, now it says you had 3400 chips.

 

[monstr999999]

call or raise 2-2.5 BB... then exit when reraising or see the flop...
:captain:

 

[trent32la]

Shove is fine with our particular hand and 17bb, although high variance. KQs is a +EV jam here and we can fold out hands that beat us which may otherwise reshove, forcing us to fold.

 

[ammje]

Shove is fine with our particular hand and 17bb, although high variance. KQs is a +EV jam here and we can fold out hands that beat us which may otherwise reshove, forcing us to fold.

Thanks for your advice, maybe I should have folded, because doing OR for fold, it does not seem good, let alone doing limp.

 

[Bozovicdj]

Too many BB to shove with a hand like this. Strongly prefer to open and then fold to a 3bet.

This is an interesting response.
I remember a similar discussion about a hand, BU got dealt KQs in a SnG, early position shoved (little less then 20BB), and another Poker Guru suggested KQs was a call there (BU had 20BB and slightly covered the villain).
This being said, I would say that KQs is also an open-shove too.

Is this just a difference in opinion and play style, or is there some situations, where a 17-20BB stack should in fact, shove with KQs?

As for the original thread, I would say that shove here is OK, however, knowing how the league works, smaller bet is going to take it down as much as a shove, while people can call smaller bet with weaker holdings then KQs, as oppose to calling a shove, which is either going to dominate you or flip with you.