$22 NL HE MTT: $22 Final Table bubble -SBvBB - 88 in the SB - did I spaz out here or should I have checked the turn?

[Jaelan]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

22

Currency

$

Final table bubble - feel like I spazzed out a bit on the turn and could have checked? but feel like he was jamming the river anyway in which case could i find a call considering my stack? I dont think so, but interested on your thoughts. I also opened for more than I usually do as he was quite active so i felt like a larger open would push out his marginal hands from calling pre. Weird though as i open for 2.2x 99% of the time but not sure it really made a difference.

pokerstars, $20 + $2 - Hold'em No Limit - 1,500/3,000 (375 ante) - 5 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 119,904 (40 bb)
CO: 155,661 (52 bb)
BU: 59,950 (20 bb)
SB (Hero): 71,896 (24 bb)
BB: 100,672 (34 bb)

Pre-Flop: (6,375) Hero is SB with 8♣ 8♠
3 players fold, Hero raises to 9,600, BB calls 6,600

Flop: (21,075) 6♠ 6♣ 2♠ (2 players)
Hero bets 10,538, BB calls 10,538

Turn: (42,151) 7♥ (2 players)
Hero bets 51,383 (all-in), BB calls 51,383

River: (144,917) 3♣ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 144,917

Showdown:
SB (Hero) shows 8♣ 8♠ (two pair, Eights and Sixes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 20%, Flop: 12%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

BB shows A♦ A♥ (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 80%, Flop: 88%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

BB wins 144,917

 

[toots babos]

Just a cooler

 

[300HPGOD]

You played this hand exactly how I would have played it minus I probably just 3x pre but that is a nitpick and does not mean I am correct and your sizing is wrong. I would bet for value on flop as you did with the intention of jamming most turns. We should use a sizing that you did and not go small here and we want to equity deny the two overcards hands here. I like the sizing you used.

On a side note, we start with 23 BBs so I think jamming pre is okay but I generally wouldn't... interested in what others think on pre flop and jamming vs raising off this stack size. If we were below 20 I would just rip it here but over 20 I wouldn't.

The turn card cooperates as it is lower than our pair and we have just over pot left. You cant check here imo and let two overcard hands here that floated on the flop get a free on the river. We start small enough here where I would be going with this hand so as soon as that turn falls I would be getting my chips in the middle. Just bad luck its blind vs blind pair vs pair and we are on the short end.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
You are raising into a larger stack, and even when you go to 3,1X, he is priced in to either 3-bet or call with almost any two cards. With 88 you can call a 3-bet jam, but you are not super happy about it. And if he call, the hand is kind of tough to play OOP on many boards. So you are only really happy, when he fold, which will rarely happen, and when it does, he likely folded junk like 72 or 63, which you crush.

So for me raising here is only a good play against weak opponents, who will drastically overfold. Given, that you were deep in a $22 MTT, its unlikely, BB is a weak opponent. And for that reason I think, limping is vastly superior to raising in this situation. If he raise, then you can limp-jam with a good risk/reward and usually play a "flip", if he call. If you never SB limp in MTTs, thats a big leak in your game, which you need to fix.

Flop
Seems fine to bet for value and protection.

Turn
As played I prefer to check and then get it in, if he bet. This allow him to bet his flushdraws and random floats, whereas when you jam, he is just going to fold all those hands and only give you action, when you are behind.

Results
The result is pretty much enevitable, when 88 run into a bigger pair blind vs. blind, so in that sense the hand is just a cooler. If he has 88 in SB, and you have AA in BB, then he also go broke, so in the long run its just a wash. But I do think, this hand could have been played better preflop and on the turn as well.

 

[Jaelan]

You played this hand exactly how I would have played it minus I probably just 3x pre but that is a nitpick and does not mean I am correct and your sizing is wrong. I would bet for value on flop as you did with the intention of jamming most turns. We should use a sizing that you did and not go small here and we want to equity deny the two overcards hands here. I like the sizing you used.

On a side note, we start with 23 BBs so I think jamming pre is okay but I generally wouldn't... interested in what others think on pre flop and jamming vs raising off this stack size. If we were below 20 I would just rip it here but over 20 I wouldn't.

The turn card cooperates as it is lower than our pair and we have just over pot left. You cant check here imo and let two overcard hands here that floated on the flop get a free on the river. We start small enough here where I would be going with this hand so as soon as that turn falls I would be getting my chips in the middle. Just bad luck its blind vs blind pair vs pair and we are on the short end.

Yes. I sometimes open jam in this spot. Can’t remember why I didn’t opt to in this instance.

In terms of open raise size. I usually would open for 2.2x but I don’t think that would have made a difference at all i this scenario.

I agree with you about a check on the turn. I didn’t wanna let them get there hence me ripping it on the turn.

 

[Jaelan]

Preflop
You are raising into a larger stack, and even when you go to 3,1X, he is priced in to either 3-bet or call with almost any two cards. With 88 you can call a 3-bet jam, but you are not super happy about it. And if he call, the hand is kind of tough to play OOP on many boards. So you are only really happy, when he fold, which will rarely happen, and when it does, he likely folded junk like 72 or 63, which you crush.

So for me raising here is only a good play against weak opponents, who will drastically overfold. Given, that you were deep in a $22 MTT, its unlikely, BB is a weak opponent. And for that reason I think, limping is vastly superior to raising in this situation. If he raise, then you can limp-jam with a good risk/reward and usually play a "flip", if he call. If you never SB limp in MTTs, thats a big leak in your game, which you need to fix.

Flop
Seems fine to bet for value and protection.

Turn
As played I prefer to check and then get it in, if he bet. This allow him to bet his flushdraws and random floats, whereas when you jam, he is just going to fold all those hands and only give you action, when you are behind.

Results
The result is pretty much enevitable, when 88 run into a bigger pair blind vs. blind, so in that sense the hand is just a cooler. If he has 88 in SB, and you have AA in BB, then he also go broke, so in the long run its just a wash. But I do think, this hand could have been played better preflop and on the turn as well.

Another really considered response. Thanks!

 

[eetenor]

You played this hand exactly how I would have played it minus I probably just 3x pre but that is a nitpick and does not mean I am correct and your sizing is wrong. I would bet for value on flop as you did with the intention of jamming most turns. We should use a sizing that you did and not go small here and we want to equity deny the two overcards hands here. I like the sizing you used.

On a side note, we start with 23 BBs so I think jamming pre is okay but I generally wouldn't... interested in what others think on pre flop and jamming vs raising off this stack size. If we were below 20 I would just rip it here but over 20 I wouldn't.

The turn card cooperates as it is lower than our pair and we have just over pot left. You cant check here imo and let two overcard hands here that floated on the flop get a free on the river. We start small enough here where I would be going with this hand so as soon as that turn falls I would be getting my chips in the middle. Just bad luck its blind vs blind pair vs pair and we are on the short end.

A rule of thumb to use with jams vs raises with pairs is can we get the two pairs directly above ours to fold if the answer is no it is best not to jam

 

[eetenor]

Preflop
You are raising into a larger stack, and even when you go to 3,1X, he is priced in to either 3-bet or call with almost any two cards. With 88 you can call a 3-bet jam, but you are not super happy about it. And if he call, the hand is kind of tough to play OOP on many boards. So you are only really happy, when he fold, which will rarely happen, and when it does, he likely folded junk like 72 or 63, which you crush.

So for me raising here is only a good play against weak opponents, who will drastically overfold. Given, that you were deep in a $22 MTT, its unlikely, BB is a weak opponent. And for that reason I think, limping is vastly superior to raising in this situation. If he raise, then you can limp-jam with a good risk/reward and usually play a "flip", if he call. If you never SB limp in MTTs, thats a big leak in your game, which you need to fix.

Flop
Seems fine to bet for value and protection.

Turn
As played I prefer to check and then get it in, if he bet. This allow him to bet his flushdraws and random floats, whereas when you jam, he is just going to fold all those hands and only give you action, when you are behind.

Results
The result is pretty much enevitable, when 88 run into a bigger pair blind vs. blind, so in that sense the hand is just a cooler. If he has 88 in SB, and you have AA in BB, then he also go broke, so in the long run its just a wash. But I do think, this hand could have been played better preflop and on the turn as well.

A solid player who plays close to GTO in the BB calls with 58% of their range-therefore when we raise 88 vs that range we have 64% equity-- A raise or flat is fine- If the solid player folds more than that and folds their weakest suited cards 72s etc then we would most often raise but be prepared for a condensed post flop range

 

[gardin555]

I think in that instance of the tourny, you should take risk or not take risk, but dont in between.
This was a hard blinds war, defining who will survive to the bubble, so if you gonna take the risk then it is an special blinds war.
Taking it into account, and plus that BB have only 10 blinds more than you, then you have three moves here:

1-Limp preflop and see what the opponent do, maybe we can see cheap the flop and catch a set or we can following playing like that, check and see how the opponent react to our moves. I think this could be a standart and safe moves in $22+ tournament. I dont like it , but is an option.

2-Push preflop is how I like to play it and I think is a better option in this situation to defend our pair trying to make fold to the BB opponent, playing agressively represent a big poket pairs.
I think 88 is a medium poket pair and in this case is a weak poket pair for bet small, because OR x2.2 or x3.2bb is the same bet preflop, its an easy and cheap call for the BB to see the flop.
The opponent can call with any two cards and see if he can catch on flop with any broadways, AX, any poket pairs 22+ trying to catch a set, etc, I saidhe can call with a very wide range, waiting for catch some good on flop street, in a cheap way.

3- Fold preflop with 88 from SB at a bubble FT, could be a good option too!! but that will depend of the kind of player BB is , but it could be the safer move here for reach FT.

I think that had to be a push or fold decision, but always depend about the opponents, numbers, etc.

Congrats on your finished place in the tournament! 👏 Seems you made a great run! 👏👍

 

[300HPGOD]

A rule of thumb to use with jams vs raises with pairs is can we get the two pairs directly above ours to fold if the answer is no it is best not to jam

So if we are at 15 BBs or say even lower like 12 BBs with 88 but we dont think 1010 will fold we should not shove? I dont agree with that. I think jamming vs non jamming here is much more of a stack depth question than it is about the hand strength of 88. To me its about where the cutoff is between too big a stack to jam 8s vs its proper/correct to jam. I dont know the answer to that question but as I wrote above, I think 20 BBs is a potential cutoff point.