$2.2 NL HE MTT: Blind-on-blind violence: best bet to fold out air?

[puzzlefish]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

2.2

Game Options

1. Turbo

Currency

$

Just FYI, this is a hyper turbo and at this given moment we are 6-handed, but still far away from the final table (about another hour away).

Blinds 250/500

Hero has 14909 on the SB
Villain has 9986 on the BB
Hero has a read on the villain as being a fishy loose player.

...pre-flop...
Folds around to Hero, who calls with

BB raises to 1500.

Filing a report of blind-on-blind violence.

Hero calls.

...flop...
Pot is 3360



Not the best texture for hero's hand.

Hero checks.
BB bets 1390

What's the best bet sizing here to fold out the air in the BB?

Would you attempt to bluff out BB or fold to this bet? (I don't think calling is an option here.)

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
Agree with limping with 20BB effective, which is a bit to deep to have a shoving range, unless there is serious ICM-pressure. But I think, I just fold to his raise. J3s out of position in a large pot does not seem like a very tempting or profitable situation to me. And even less so against a loose-passive player, since he probably have at least something, when he raise instead of taking a free flop.

Flop
You dont even have a backdoor draw or an overcard, so here I would also just give up.

 

[puzzlefish]

You dont even have a backdoor draw or an overcard, so here I would also just give up.

What bet size from BB would induce you to at least try a bluff here?

To me, his betting looks weak and his pre-flop 3-bet is pretty classic bullying of a call from SB. So I am more likely to try to take a stab at getting a BB off of his hands in this kind of spot, with ATC, unless I have a very good history of the player not betting without having any value.

This is a pretty scary looking board for most AX that don't have clubs or a queen and I don't feel that they would want to play for stacks.

 

[fundiver199]

What bet size from BB would induce you to at least try a bluff here?

Its not about his bet size. Its about your hand, which is really bad. And also the fact, he only has around a pot sized bet left after raising preflop and betting the flop. So any raise here will need to be a jam, and when you are called, you might be drawing basically dead, if for instance he has a Q.

To me, his betting looks weak

Its not weak. Its completely standard sizing for short stacked tournament play.

and his pre-flop 3-bet is pretty classic bullying of a call from SB.

Maybe. But you say, he is loose-passive. So is he really raising junk that often? This statement would make more sense, if you said, he was a LAG.

This is a pretty scary looking board for most AX that don't have clubs or a queen and I don't feel that they would want to play for stacks.

Sure. But you still have a really bad hand. If you at least had something K3 of spades rather than J3 of hearts, I could get more onboard with it. And if you really want to bluff with any two cards, why did you not raise preflop? This is also an option against weak-passive opponents, especially when you are the larger stack. The reason to not raise is mainly, that aggressive opponents will 3-bet you a lot, and of course J3s does not want to call a 3-bet.

 

[puzzlefish]

And if you really want to bluff with any two cards, why did you not raise preflop? This is also an option against weak-passive opponents, especially when you are the larger stack.

I find that it's harder to get villains to fold when re-raising pre-flop. They may in fact have something they will be happy to stack off with. However, they may not be so happy on the flop.

Otherwise, I do agree it's a risky situation to be in to try and bluff villain off with complete air in this spot.

 

[eetenor]

Just FYI, this is a hyper turbo and at this given moment we are 6-handed, but still far away from the final table (about another hour away).

Blinds 250/500

Hero has 14909 on the SB
Villain has 9986 on the BB
Hero has a read on the villain as being a fishy loose player.

...pre-flop...
Folds around to Hero, who calls with

BB raises to 1500.

Filing a report of blind-on-blind violence.

Hero calls.

...flop...
Pot is 3360



Not the best texture for hero's hand.

Hero checks.
BB bets 1390

What's the best bet sizing here to fold out the air in the BB?

Would you attempt to bluff out BB or fold to this bet? (I don't think calling is an option here.)

So fishy loose player we want them to fold air and continue with better hmmmmmmm pot is currently 4390 not antes mentioned and the V has7k left- if we min raise to fold air only pot will be 7150 and we will have put 1/3 of our stack in the middle to fold to the shove which will have draws in it--

Air only folds min raises are what is typical however they seldom work vs loose fishy players so we need back doors to even try it and more chips in our stack would be good too

 

[puzzlefish]

Air only folds min raises are what is typical however they seldom work vs loose fishy players so we need back doors to even try it and more chips in our stack would be good too

This is exactly why I didn't want to min raise here, since that is interpreted as a bluff and disrespected in these kinds of situations..

Not saying that I like to be in these situations or make a habit of bluffing with air.

I always have the nuts when I bet big.

Please don't call my stupid bluff.

 

[makisaa]

I would fold, because that J3 is facing a Queen at the flop and instead of hearts flop has cluds and spade. So you don't have any connection with that flop!

 

[ADRI7HO]

I would definitely fold as well, the flop is completely different from the already weak J,3s hand.

 

[eetenor]

This is exactly why I didn't want to min raise here, since that is interpreted as a bluff and disrespected in these kinds of situations..

Not saying that I like to be in these situations or make a habit of bluffing with air.

I always have the nuts when I bet big.

Please don't call my stupid bluff.

If our V are calling too often big bet nuts only is fine