$0.11 NL HE MTT: Do you fold KK in a Satellite?

[monkeytilter]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Buy-in

0.11

Currency

$

10 tickets, 16 players remaining, still registering for another 2 levels so that number may go up.

I ISO a limp with 25BB bet as I don't want to play a pot as my "Chance Of Cashing" is well over 100% but I'm ok with getting in vs short stack, then medium stack jams on me.
What would you do? What do you put villain on? (has "whale" tag btw)

 

[mrfastflow]

The situation on other tables is crucial
20bb in a satellite is not a short stack
If the situation on other tables is similar then your chances of getting a ticket are not 100% especially after losing 30% of your chips I am not super happy about calling it but I can't imagine folding

 

[monkeytilter]

The situation on other tables is crucial
20bb in a satellite is not a short stack
If the situation on other tables is similar then your chances of getting a ticket are not 100% especially after losing 30% of your chips I am not super happy about calling it but I can't imagine folding

I meant limper's short stack in relative terms, I can call him and still have a very competetive stack. Agreed calling leaves me with a 'damaged' stack, so that's why I'm asking the question.

Spoiler: Spolier

As it happened I called. Villain should only be shoving AA here I think, he is risking his whole stack (covered) for very little if zero gain. He has a stack that should also be a good favourite to cash.

But I know this player isn't really thinking deeply about the situation and his range is much more than just AA. So I called, he showed AJ (terrible?), hit the A on the turn obviously, leaving me with a stack I needed to work back up (~50% COC). On reflection I made an unnecessary call as I stood to gain very little from it.

 

[monkeytilter]

The situation on other tables is crucial
20bb in a satellite is not a short stack
If the situation on other tables is similar then your chances of getting a ticket are not 100% especially after losing 30% of your chips I am not super happy about calling it but I can't imagine folding

Curious, do you have all the other tables open then to watch the situation? I'll do this near the bubble for 2 or 3 tables, but felt it was a bit early as registration was still open

 

[mrfastflow]

Curious, do you have all the other tables open then to watch the situation? I'll do this near the bubble for 2 or 3 tables, but felt it was a bit early as registration was still open

I missed the information about late registration, Yes it's too early to look at other tables and too early on information about the number of players, it's the early phase of the tournament, that's why the stacks are so big, I play isolation 2k or 2,5k here and then react to what happens

 

[monkeytilter]

I missed the information about late registration, Yes it's too early to look at other tables and too early on information about the number of players, it's the early phase of the tournament, that's why the stacks are so big, I play isolation 2k or 2,5k here and then react to what happens

I admit it's a freaky iso size, I'm experimenting. Like I say I didn't want to see a flop, and generally don't want to play too many flops as it's a satellite, but as it's 11c buy in (with freeroll sats to it) it plays just like a freeroll and most hands are 3..5 way, which I didn't want with KK, just happy to take a couple of blinds and try to deny any equity.

I need to study more on late game strategy in sats and learn to table watch effectively. I might come up with a question post on late game either here or on Dara's Sat thread (is he still active on CC?)

Glad to say I cashed in this one but exposed myself to unnecessary variance by damaging a good stack.

 

[Bhargav]

you have a very big stack compared to others, I think you can reach ITM playing cautiously . Why would you raise 25bb(you can raise 3 or 5bb), it is like you have committed to the pot, there is no turning back. you cannot fold because villain got good pot odds.

 

[monkeytilter]

Why the 25bb? I explained that, experimenting and trying to just take the pot down (equity denial), if I 3bb the pot could most likely end up 4 way, last thing you want in a satellite at this stage. I'm not saying my raise was correct by any means though there are some odd looking but correct plays in a satellite like open shoving 30/40bb stacks. I think next one where I have a stack like this I'll just fold every hand, clock run relentlessly and coast to a pretty much guaranteed cash, they're so soft as most players play them like MTTs and just see too many flops trying to accumulate chips.

The 'I am committed to this pot, we are playing for stacks' was the message I was trying to send BTW.

 

[seiya1989]

The question doesn't make much sense after the big climb you made before the flop. You have a premium hand at a table with only 5 players. It's obvious that you have to call in that situation since your climb was ridiculously high, in any case if you were so sure that you were already in the money you would have folded the KK and that was all. Although it doesn't matter much, it's only a 0.11 cent satellite.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Raising to 25bb's is pretty awful and this hand illustrates why.

 

[monkeytilter]

Raising to 25bb's is pretty awful and this hand illustrates why.

Agreed.

Just out of interest, if it had played out in a more standard way (iso 3.5bb, 3bet 11bb) 4 bet to 25bb then villain 5 bet jams would you fold?

Do you play a lot of satellites?

 

[monkeytilter]

Although it doesn't matter much, it's only a 0.11 cent satellite.

Every cent is sacred
Every cent is great
If a cent is wasted
The Poker Gods gets quite irate

 

[eetenor]

10 tickets, 16 players remaining, still registering for another 2 levels so that number may go up.

I ISO a limp with 25BB bet as I don't want to play a pot as my "Chance Of Cashing" is well over 100% but I'm ok with getting in vs short stack, then medium stack jams on me.
What would you do? What do you put villain on? (has "whale" tag btw)

View attachment 379996

Satty math is very simple --we look at the gross equity of the hand and compare that equity to our % of getting a seat with the stack we have. You state 100% get the seat with your stack why are you playing any hand? AA has 80% equity most often- 20% below the equity we need to play a hand and break even. If we have 100% what we want is for other players to fight over pots and knock each other out. We do not want to ever iso with a 25bb bet 1/3 of our stack pot committing us to call off with any hand. If you have 100% of seat stack just do not play- easy peasy -stay live so they think you will defend your blinds but just time bank until you win a ticket

 

[monkeytilter]

Satty math is very simple --we look at the gross equity of the hand and compare that equity to our % of getting a seat with the stack we have. You state 100% get the seat with your stack why are you playing any hand? AA has 80% equity most often- 20% below the equity we need to play a hand and break even. If we have 100% what we want is for other players to fight over pots and knock each other out. We do not want to ever iso with a 25bb bet 1/3 of our stack pot committing us to call off with any hand. If you have 100% of seat stack just do not play- easy peasy -stay live so they think you will defend your blinds but just time bank until you win a ticket

It was ~140% at that point in time i.e. with that stack and that number of players (registration was not closed though), but take your point

 

[gloria_marga]

Your bet was completely unreasonable. You are required to pay for your bet, but if you wanted to avoid that problem, you should have bet everything.