Pete Rose

Shumkoolie

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This article pretty much sums up the whole Pete Rose saga, ending off with the ominous words:

And then ... the sound he heard Monday was the door slamming on him. Forever.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14366434/door-slams-shut-pete-rose

Thanks to Jayson Stark of ESPN for the story. Being a baseball history nut, like I am, I've been following the Pete Rose story for a long time. I started following baseball in the early to mid 1980's, just as his phenomenal career was winding down. I saw his base hit off Eric Show to become the all-time hit king, passing Ty Cobb.


What should have happened is Pete Rose, 5 years after retiring from Major League Baseball, should have been in Cooperstown, making a speech, as a first ballot Hall of Famer, joining the immortals the preceded him, like Cobb, Ruth, Gehrig, Johnson, Williams, Foxx, Young, Hornsby, Mathewson, McGraw, Ott, Mack, Aaron, Mays, Musial, and on and on. Instead, on August 24th, 1989, Pete Rose was placed on baseball's permanently ineligible list (PIL) because he broke Rule 21(d), paragraph two:

"Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible."

The Baseball Hall of Fame, not long after, passed a rule declaring all those on the PIL ineligible to be on the ballot for election by the BBWAA.

Recently, Rob Manfred reviewed the Pete Rose case, something that his predecessors, Bud Selig and Fay Vincent did not do. He ruled that Rose will remain on the PIL, as he as not demonstrated sufficiently that he has "reconfigured his life".

Now, at 74 years of age, Rose will live out the rest of his life, not as the Great American story of the baseball hero who played the game the right way, but rather, as a tragic, almost Shakespearian-like character.

This has become such a hot button issue on Facebook. So many people feel that he is deserving of reinstatement, and I understand why, because we live in a society that believes in second chances. I agree with that, but here's where many peoples' thinking is flawed. Rose had 26 years to deserve the forgiveness that he sought. But, he spent those years, first denying he bet on baseball games, then, finally coming clean, but not really coming clean. He tried to paint himself as the victim here, and that's definitely not the sign of somebody who's truly sorry for what he did.

To me, it's a no brainer, and it's sad for me to say it because he played the game the way it was meant to be played, with his best effort every day he came to the ballpark. My heart tells me Pete Rose needs to be in the Hall of Fame, but the way these years unfolded, it would have been a huge error on MLB's part to reinstate him, and Manfred's legacy as commissioner would have been tarnished forever, regardless of what he did after the Rose affair.

What do you think? Is this an exaggeration, or do you agree with what I said? Do you feel Rose deserves to be reinstated by baseball?
 
PokerPete

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"Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible."
Ummmm...does this mean the should just shut the door permanently to the entire MLB???

Daily fantasy sports operator DraftKings has come to terms on a multi-year deal with Major League Baseball, which extends DraftKings’ existing partnership and makes it MLB’s “Official Daily Fantasy Game.”
 
Shumkoolie

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Poof

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I think its bull, he deserves to be in the HOF, he played that well.
 
beardyian

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The HoF will be without the Hits leader and probably the HR leader when years roll by it will look strange.

Im not condoning either reasons - but i know which looks worse and more understandable for an exclusion.
 
ckingriches

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In terms of? I don't understand the point to your question. Are you suggesting that everybody in MLB is betting on baseball???
He's pointing out the irony in MLB's partnership in the fantasy sports world.
 
Shumkoolie

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He's pointing out the irony in MLB's partnership in the fantasy sports world.

It is ironic. It doesn't take away the fact that what he did caused damage to the integrity of the game. It doesn't matter how well someone played, if he broke the rules, he deserves to be punished.

Yes, it would be sad if Bonds didn't get voted in, keeping the home run and all-time hits leaders from having a plaque, but now that enough time has passed by, it's become more obvious that Bonds, and all those other guys that put up "video game" like numbers during that era would never have been able to without PED's. To me, Hank Aaron is the legitimate Home Run King.
 
grilldoggy

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He supposedly didn't bet against his own teams, but he did bet on games in which his teams participated. This is not a good thing, he probably made some game decisions based on his betting. That in itself is a compromise of the integrity of the game. Yes, he wanted his teams to win, but he was distracted by goals not related to that as well. So you're not going to see many commissioners that will reinstate Pete Rose in his lifetime. I think that is his actual penalty, and I think he will still make it into the hall of fame post mortem.
 
Shumkoolie

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He supposedly didn't bet against his own teams, but he did bet on games in which his teams participated. This is not a good thing, he probably made some game decisions based on his betting. That in itself is a compromise of the integrity of the game. Yes, he wanted his teams to win, but he was distracted by goals not related to that as well. So you're not going to see many commissioners that will reinstate Pete Rose in his lifetime. I think that is his actual penalty, and I think he will still make it into the hall of fame post mortem.

I don't think there was ever any proof that he bet against the Reds, but it doesn't matter. Betting on your team is bad, whether you think they'll win or not. I wouldn't be surprised if he did bet against them though.

Rob Manfred, after being presented with the evidence, saw absolutely zero change in Pete Rose in 2015 compared to the Pete Rose of 1989. He did more than the previous two commissioners in that he tackled this issue head-on, and early in his mandate. At least now he won't spend the rest of his tenure being asked this question. He's really in a lose lose situation, because if he reinstated Rose, he's going counter to the bylaws established long ago and would be a HUGE black mark against his legacy, and would be looked at VERY negatively. He'll still face criticism from a small group of people who feel that by his upholding the original ban, he's being far too strict on Rose. To me, that's totally misguided.

As for post-mortem, (NO pun intended), don't bet on it. His being alive or not, based on everything I've ever read or heard people say has zero bearing on his chances of ever being elected to the Hall of Fame. His time to rehabilitate his image and the way he lived his life was over the last 26 years. He chose not to go down that path, and now, he's serving a "death sentence" if you will, from the Hall of Fame. He's a big part of baseball history, with all that he accomplished as a player because there's no denying that he had a tremendous career, but he caused irreparable harm to his career and legacy by engaging in gambling, which is probably baseball's (and really, all pro sports) most egregious sin.
 
99TERRANCE99

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If you think players have never put in bets through third parties thats hilarious .
 
Shumkoolie

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If you think players have never put in bets through third parties thats hilarious .

I actually think the chances of that are small, because there's the risk that that third party will rat you out. Plus, there's nothing that says they can't bet on other sports, which is probably guaranteed. But, this is about betting on a game you are directly involved with. I will say with certainty that players are not doing that because the risk is not worth the reward.
 
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PLAYFUL1

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Pete Rose should be a HOF for sure says Playful
 
A

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Pete's denial about betting on baseball is far more egregious than his betting on baseball. Not only did he damage the integrity of the game, he lied about damaging the integrity of the game, which shows no integrity and is not HOF worthy.
 
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