Any ICM/MTT Preflop charts Trainers?

[AcesUTGFold]

Hi guys. I am currently playing micro mtts with small fields and would like to improve. I have seen BBZ Poker there are some good offers for little money. What I'm interested in is ''ICM/MTT Preflop charts Trainer'' I wanted to ask you if something like this helps you against mostly bad opponents to medium good ones.

 

[najisami]

Hello,

There's certainly tons of material and tools you can use.
First of all, take the free course available here on CC : Become a Winning Poker Player in 30 Days!

Then, among so much YouTube content, I would suggest you check out W. Nathan's work (If you haven't already). He has a free downloadable sheet where you can find exactly what you asked for (ICM / MTT Pre-Flop Charts). Here's the link :

https://www.blackrain79.com/2018/05/poker-cheat-sheet.html.

Best of luck man.

Naji.

 

[AcesUTGFold]

Hello,

There's certainly tons of material and tools you can use.
First of all, take the free course available here on CC : Become a Winning Poker Player in 30 Days!

Then, among so much YouTube content, I would suggest you check out W. Nathan's work (If you haven't already). He has a free downloadable sheet where you can find exactly what you asked for (ICM / MTT Pre-Flop Charts). Here's the link :

https://www.blackrain79.com/2018/05/poker-cheat-sheet.html.

Best of luck man.

Naji.

Yes, I know him well. I've also learned a lot because I'm actually a cash game player. I just think the prices on some sites are a bit too high for a ''micro grinder'' with small big winnings. That's why BBZ caught my eye.

 

[najisami]

Yes, I know him well. I've also learned a lot because I'm actually a cash game player. I just think the prices on some sites are a bit too high for a ''micro grinder'' with small big winnings. That's why BBZ caught my eye.

Well, you don't seem to need any help then 🤪😂.
BBZ looks good, but I never actually enrolled with them. I think there's plenty of free help out there. And they want $59 every month!!

 

[AcesUTGFold]

Well, you don't seem to need any help then 🤪😂.
BBZ looks good, but I never actually enrolled with them. I think there's plenty of free help out there. And they want $59 every month!!

Yes, if you get the right coaching, it's expensive. Actually, as on every site, it's just too much for micro grinders. But I was talking about this one.

Login - BBZPoker

[login_form]

bbzpoker.com

You can take a look.

 

[najisami]

Yes, if you get the right coaching, it's expensive. Actually, as on every site, it's just too much for micro grinders. But I was talking about this one.

Login - BBZPoker

[login_form]

bbzpoker.com

You can take a look.

Ah ok. At least it's affordable. I might try it. I'll let you know if I do. Thank you.

 

[AcesUTGFold]

Ah ok. At least it's affordable. I might try it. I'll let you know if I do. Thank you.

Do you personally think that this is a good thing against people who just play around with handranges and do something pointless? In relation to the MTT Micros. I'm sure you know how crazy that is.

 

[najisami]

Do you personally think that this is a good thing against people who just play around with handranges and do something pointless? In relation to the MTT Micros. I'm sure you know how crazy that is.

I know exactly what you are talking about man. You get on a micro MTT, especially if it's a satellite, and you find yourself in the middle of a "donk" feast ! That's how the low stakes are nowadays.

So I honestly think that studying and applying whatever one can learn (Ranges, ICM, +EV....) does not really work at those stakes. I just observe while playing as tight as I can till I get a hand and put my chips in with them (And pray 😂🤣). If I get lucky enough to chip up, I hang in there waiting for most of the fish to get out because in general, it gets a little better in the late stages.

I play a lot of SNGs. In the $1 and $2 ones, I almost convince myself that people don't have a "Fold" button. Even in the $5 buy-ins, it's still almost the same thing. It doesn't get a little better till I play the $10 ones and up.

As to the MTTs, I lately don't play more than 3 a week. I really get aggravated when I get knocked out by QT or 9J with AA or KK after 3 or 4 hours of play. I find the SNGs more profitable on the long term and the cash games are not really my thing though I play some 0.5-0.10 or 0.10-0.25 Omaha here and there.

 

[AcesUTGFold]

I know exactly what you are talking about man. You get on a micro MTT, especially if it's a satellite, and you find yourself in the middle of a "donk" feast ! That's how the low stakes are nowadays.

So I honestly think that studying and applying whatever one can learn (Ranges, ICM, +EV....) does not really work at those stakes. I just observe while playing as tight as I can till I get a hand and put my chips in with them (And pray 😂🤣). If I get lucky enough to chip up, I hang in there waiting for most of the fish to get out because in general, it gets a little better in the late stages.

I play a lot of SNGs. In the $1 and $2 ones, I almost convince myself that people don't have a "Fold" button. Even in the $5 buy-ins, it's still almost the same thing. It doesn't get a little better till I play the $10 ones and up.

As to the MTTs, I lately don't play more than 3 a week. I really get aggravated when I get knocked out by QT or 9J with AA or KK after 3 or 4 hours of play. I find the SNGs more profitable on the long term and the cash games are not really my thing though I play some 0.5-0.10 or 0.10-0.25 Omaha here and there.

I know that exploit is always the best way in the micros but I think you can always learn no matter where.
So I don't play really big mtts either. I think they're terrible too. The mtts are so small that they look like a sng to me.

 

[fundiver199]

Its always good to know the starting point. Like which hands you are supposed to call or 3-bet from BTN with 40BB effective against a CO open. And then you can always adjust from there. In soft games there are many situations though, that are not covered by GTO charts, like having 4 people limp to you, or having someone open raise to 4,5BB from UTG. And in such situations you just need to work it out, as you go. You can always start by asking yourself questions like "do I have fold equity", or "do I want to build a big pot in this situation".

 

[AcesUTGFold]

Its always good to know the starting point. Like which hands you are supposed to call or 3-bet from BTN with 40BB effective against a CO open. And then you can always adjust from there. In soft games there are many situations though, that are not covered by GTO charts, like having 4 people limp to you, or having someone open raise to 4,5BB from UTG. And in such situations you just need to work it out, as you go. You can always start by asking yourself questions like "do I have fold equity", or "do I want to build a big pot in this situation".

Thank you! I also use the gto charts for cash games, of course. The problem is with mtt it is a final decision with all-in. That's why I have such a hard time going all in with medium strong hands in some spots, but the problem is you can't fold preflop all the time like in cash game. The blinds are getting less and less.
If I buy a trainer at bbz poker what would you rather recommend me to do with icm or chip ev training?

 

[TeUnit]

I am not sure if it is still available, but Dragthebar had free videos on how to make your own charts. They would call them PBJ charts.

 

[AcesUTGFold]

I am not sure if it is still available, but Dragthebar had free videos on how to make your own charts. They would call them PBJ charts.

I just went to their website. I didn't know that yet. Thank you very much. GTOWizard also offers free ChipEv ranges. The only thing that bothers me is that you can't set BTN 30bb vs BB 10bb. That probably costs money? I have no idea.

 

[TeUnit]

I just went to their website. I didn't know that yet. Thank you very much. GTOWizard also offers free ChipEv ranges. The only thing that bothers me is that you can't set BTN 30bb vs BB 10bb. That probably costs money? I have no idea.

Maybe I am misunderstanding and without knowing the format, but isnt that just 10bbs effective stack size(assumes NASH) and something like

10BB) 67% - 22,A2,K2,Q7,Q2s,J8,J3s,T8,T4s,97,95s,87,84s,76,74s,64s,53s,43s

or If you are in the BB calling the shove something like

10BB) 41% - 22,A2,K5,K2s,Q9,Q7s,JT,J8s,T9s

Or if you had an estimate of the villans range you could substitute that for NASH ranges.

If you wanted to get really accurate just input the situation into an ICM tool like Sngwiz or Icmizer and adjust for what you believe the villans range is.

 

[najisami]

Its always good to know the starting point. Like which hands you are supposed to call or 3-bet from BTN with 40BB effective against a CO open. And then you can always adjust from there. In soft games there are many situations though, that are not covered by GTO charts, like having 4 people limp to you, or having someone open raise to 4,5BB from UTG. And in such situations you just need to work it out, as you go. You can always start by asking yourself questions like "do I have fold equity", or "do I want to build a big pot in this situation".

Totally agree. Exactly what we were talking about last night me and AcesUTGFold. In the low/micros, you can hardly think or use GTO, and I couldn't have said it in better way "You just need to work it out".

 

[Gallarado777]

if you play at low limits, you don't need a coach, just find friends who play just above your limits or forums where you'll talk to players and share your hands. To discuss difficult hands, you will need a coach when you reach high limits and need a coach because the limits at which you will play there are not GTO players

 

[fundiver199]

Thank you! I also use the gto charts for cash games, of course. The problem is with mtt it is a final decision with all-in. That's why I have such a hard time going all in with medium strong hands in some spots, but the problem is you can't fold preflop all the time like in cash game. The blinds are getting less and less.
If I buy a trainer at bbz poker what would you rather recommend me to do with icm or chip ev training?

For preflop push/fold decisions with ICM-implications the best solution is to use software, that calculate the Nash equilibrium like ICMizer. This work very well for both SnGs and MTT final tables.

 

[skaterick]

just shove when its folded to you in late seat ! good luck allin .

 

[Poker Orifice]

Many are using the DOG trainer charts in the micros.

 

[AcesUTGFold]

Thank you all for your answers. I have also been thinking about such trainer programs as I have somehow run into the better hand more often recently. I was wondering if it was just variance or just wrong preflop decisions in push/fold phases. And I hope that if I use such a trainer I will achieve better results in relation to all-in spots. After many, many tournaments.