See-saw battle with poker every day

[ChuckTs]

Went down to about minus 1 1/2 buyins in cash games today - only a few hands namely took my there: One in which I called an all in for around 4/5ths the pot with a gutshot + flush draw on the turn :icon_geek:

Anyways Ive finally gotten the hang of cash games and though this is only one days' experience, I finally realized how to play vs. the donks to make constant money. Namely vs. the shortstacks.

I ended up bringing today back up to a positive profit, and felt good about it.
All my aces held today, and aside from the bad starting streak it was a good day. Here's my big hand of the day that really helped
I just knew he had either a hand good enough to push with, or he really wanted to bluff me out, but that's why I slowplayed it - I wanted to make sure he pushed into me.

pokerstars GAME #5613093662: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/07/19 - 18:31:22 (ET)
Table 'Eltanin IV' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: ghansen35 ($98.50 in chips)
Seat 2: LowcashGusto ($33 in chips)
Seat 5: mjm23 ($14.80 in chips)
Seat 6: ChuckTs ($124.95 in chips)
mjm23: posts small blind $0.50
ChuckTs: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Ac Ad]
ghansen35: raises $3 to $4
LowcashGusto: folds
mjm23: folds
ChuckTs: raises $10 to $14
ghansen35: calls $10
*** FLOP *** [7d 8c As]
ChuckTs: checks
ghansen35: bets $20
ChuckTs: calls $20
*** TURN *** [7d 8c As] [Th]
ChuckTs: checks
ghansen35: bets $64.50 and is all-in
ChuckTs: calls $64.50
*** RIVER *** [7d 8c As Th] K♥
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ChuckTs: shows [Ac Ad] (three of a kind, Aces)
ghansen35: mucks hand
ChuckTs collected $195.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $197.50 | Rake $2
Board [7d 8c As Th Kh]
Seat 1: ghansen35 mucked [7c 7h]
Seat 2: LowcashGusto (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: mjm23 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: ChuckTs (big blind) showed [Ac Ad] and won ($195.50) with three of a kind, Aces

Anyways; hope this doesn't come across as a gloating post. I'm just happy I had a good day for the first time in a looong while.

 

[twizzybop]

What villian failed to realize was possible hands he could be against.. he wouldn't let that set go for the life of him.. vnh indeeed.

 

[Fish]

I disagree, TBop.
GHanson had position and the odds to call preflop looking for a set.
After that flop hit, there are just too many hands that GHanson is ahead of here to not bet hard on both the flop and turn.
I think both players played this hand well.

Quote-
(If you don't lose alot of money with set over set, you played it wrong)
- Somebody better than Fish.

 

[twizzybop]

Yes he was looking for a set.. bells should have went off on the call pre-flop.. then pushing again with his set.. more ding-ding-ding should go off..

He bet "thinking" he had the best hand without thinking his opponent had a better hand cause he hit a set. That set no matter what was going to be his gold mine.. "fools gold this time around"

 

[ChuckTs]

Whether it was the right play or not, I don't think I personally could get away from a hand like that either. Looking back, my flop call is pretty suspicious (I was trying to represent a smaller pocket pair getting scared from the ace), but even so, I was playing pretty loose/aggressive at the time, and I really don't think he could have put me on aces.

 

[Fish]

TBOP, that is just wrong.
Run through the action again, and count up the size of the pot after and prior to each action.
To not get all of his chips in would be the only mistake here.

 

[twizzybop]

He has the lowest set on the board.. 2 other sets beat his.. and for giggles lets say you had 10's.. Then he called 6 dollars more into a 15.50 pot in hopes of hitting a set which is 8:1 to hit...

Married to the pot syndrome in this case no matter what

 

[Fish]

He has the lowest set on the board.. 2 other sets beat his.. and for giggles lets say you had 10's.. Then he called 6 dollars more into a 15.50 pot in hopes of hitting a set which is 8:1 to hit...

Married to the pot syndrome in this case no matter what

Where do you get $6 from?
Are you even looking at the same hand?

And yes 8-1 is a magical number concerning sets.
And that is exactly what you must take into consideration when looking for a set.

Here's a play by play for you:

This is a 6-HANDED table
GHANSON (GH) raises to $4 (pot has $5.50)
Chuck (C) raises to 14 (pot is now $18.50)
GH calls the $10 (pot is now $28.5)
***** In order for GH's call of $10 to be correct, he must be able to get approx 8 times as much when his set hits. (8 x 10 = $80).
If he misses, he throws it away, and that ends the hand.
GH has $84.50 C has $110.95 remaining when the flop hits.

THE POT IS $28.50
Flop hits both players for their sets.
GH bets Approx 2/3 the pot by betting $20
C Calls.

TOTAL POT AFTER FLOP Betting = $68.50
GH has $64.50 C has $90.95 remaining in stacks.

Turn hits a brick.
GH Bets $64.50 into a $68.50 pot with a set.
C Calls.

If you still feel you can get off this hand, including the facts that, this is 6-max, C has been Loose-Aggro (as he should be in 6-max) and the fact that a set on a rainbow board with an ace(even bottom set) is HUGE in a shorthanded game, then the next discussion that you can lead is this:

What exactly is the definition of "WEAK-TIGHT"?

 

[joosebuck]

unless he put him on QJ, there is no way he can fold (and who raises $4->$14 with QJ in that situation and stays to the river?)

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Someone in this topic is being remarkably results-oriented.

 

[tranqxility]

What I want to know is what Chuck would have done if his 3rd Ace never came.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

What I want to know is what Chuck would have done if his 3rd Ace never came.

Raised the flop and gone busto, probably.

 

[blankoblanco]

Someone in this topic is being remarkably results-oriented.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Fish]

unless he put him on QJ, there is no way he can fold (and who raises $4->$14 with QJ in that situation and stays to the river?)

This doesn't make sense to me at all.
Are you saying that someone should have folded their set to the all-in on the turn if they put the other person on QJ? (A straightdraw)????

Please Explain, because Q-J has no relevance to this hand that I can see.

 

[Xandit]

(wonder if this should get moved to the hand analysis forum..since it's been hijacked)


Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus
Someone in this topic is being remarkably results-oriented

This I agree with.

However, why don't we look at this hand from the villan's point of view.
He raised perflop and was re raised. What hand's could we put Chuck on? (rember he has been loose aggressive) AA,KK,QQ,JJ, AKs,AQs,10's....Those seem to be the some/most of the hands that i think would require a reraise that big.
Now the pot/implied odds seem to suggest that a call with the intension of hitting a set or folding.
On the flop villan spikes a set. the only hand he is behind here is AA. So villan makes a good bet, if chuck has AK,AQ,AJ,KK he would just most likely check and smooth call. hopeing for two pair ect.. With the turn being the ten, he put the rest of his stack in just as he should have.

I think the hand was some very good poker by both players, this time the best hand won.

what do you think Chuck? Would you have played the hand the same with KK,AK peflop and on the flop,turn?

 

[ChuckTs]

What I want to know is what Chuck would have done if his 3rd Ace never came.

gone broke

 

[ChuckTs]

On the flop villan spikes a set. the only hand he is behind here is AA. So villan makes a good bet, if chuck has AK,AQ,AJ,KK he would just most likely check and smooth call. hopeing for two pair ect.. With the turn being the ten, he put the rest of his stack in just as he should have.

I think the hand was some very good poker by both players, this time the best hand won.

what do you think Chuck? Would you have played the hand the same with KK,AK peflop and on the flop,turn?

Not sure what you mean, Xandit; I was first to act post-flop, and had I had KK on that flop, I'd lead, but get very cautious after his raise/smooth call (whichever he'd do). If I had AK, I'd lead, and he'd probably smooth call (typical slowplay) then I'd lead the turn aswell, but think twice after he would reraise. Had he reraised the flop, I'd probably call then check-fold the turn without a K or another A.
I would definitely not play AK in the same trap by smooth calling, if that's what you mean.

 

[ChuckTs]

Raised the flop and gone busto, probably.

tbh I think I'd lose alot of chips, but considering we both have max. buyins, it'd give me room to see that he had me beat. My honest response is that I'd lose about $50 then probably still pay him off if he put the rest of his stack in. The table was really donk-ish, so I'd probably underestimate his hand, and call. That and I was slightly tilting still after losing a full buyin or more.

 

[twizzybop]

Now I know where I got the 6 from lol.. ooops 4 dollar bet and a 10 dollar raise.. my mistake.. no it is results orientated by the way...

What I am still trying to say which by now is misconstrued by me

He had a set.. lowest on the board.. no matter what one has to think of all hands that are on this board.. only 2 other hands so far beat the set of 7's.. The call on the flop represented 1 of 3 things.. chuck hit his ace,chuck is behind on the ace with another pocket pair or chuck has 2 pair...Yet the possibility of another set being out there has to be in the back of his mind..

Always check to see what other hands may be out there... Now since there really was no scare card on the turn.. He pushed all in with the rest of his money saying if another set is out there higher then mine so be it..

I personally can't recall how many times I have been beaten by a bigger set or been the one holding the bigger set..

All I am saying he wasn't going to let go off the set and so be it if you had another larger set..

And playing against a loose aggresive player you have to think he "may" also have a set..

Sometimes it is better to think worst case scenario which the set of 7's bet on the turn so hard and thought so be it..

Weak tight? You mean weak passive?? Someone who only bets with good hands.. if they miss and you bet they will fold yet if they hit, calling station or have a chance to hit say flush or straight draw again calling station