More on donk club WPT

[oldgrinder63]

Update on Club WPT dishonest site

If you read any of my other post this is a follow up. New information coming in that club wpt is now under investigation due to there corrupted and faulty dealing program, they are luring in paying customers with the expectation that they can win cash prizes, when in fact they have loaded sub routines in there dealing program and its abit complex, but can easily be done I am told with creative programming. Club wpt refuses to acknowledge there dealing program is 100% random at all times? If you do not believe me email them yourselves and ask them that question. members@theclubservices.com

 

[royalflush122096]

I would never play on club wpt if this is indeed true!

 

[oldgrinder63]

Another update on Club WPT Poker

So this is a follow up to my other post. I emailed club wpt again and asked one question to which so far they will not answer, but I thought I would try again and emailed them this question. Yes or No Is your dealing program 100% random at all times? and here is there reply. PS how is it no risk if you have to pay a monthly fee?

Dear Customer,
Thank you for contacting us.
We designed ClubWPT to provide our players with a safe and fair online home for no-risk poker. Our Random Number Generator (RNG), along with our card-shuffling algorithm, is among the best and most realistic available. We hope you'll stick with us and we wish you the best of luck at the tables.
This is all the information we have to provide to customers.
Please feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.
Sincerely,
Patrick

Please visit our online Customer Support center for answers to any questions and concerns.

 

[oldgrinder63]

They run these points free rolls like every 15 minutes 24 hrs a day, You can win T,p,s in the points free rolls, Tp,s (turney points) you need Tp,s to enter cash prize turneys there biggest turneys are usually on sunday and they have a 5k game and 10k sometimes I believe, those games cost 2000 Tp,s to enter, they have 1k trnys tue, wed, thu those are 400 T,ps to enter. When you first start out with donk club wpt they give you 500 T,p,s so you have to earn t,ps if you want to play in the bigger cash games. So if you do end up in those free rolls be warned that there are massive herds of donks that literally play like a 12 yr would and its not even real poker in my opinion. I still am investigating the site for rigged dealing program, I believe they are using algorithms in key crucial hands! They want to keep there paying monthly donks happy so they had to come up with a way to do so. My advice do not join and you better off on ACR or somewhere else.

 

[AllenKll]

Quite a wall of text you've got there, bud. Maybe some paragraphs next time to help with readability?

Donks.... Yep. I play on ClubWPT routinely. There are an metric ass load of donks. It's very much not strategy based for a lot of the time, in a lot of the tournaments.

Add on the fact that blinds are blazingly fast, and you've got yourself one hell of an interesting mix of weird shit going on. When and if you do make a final table, the blinds are so damned high that nearly everyone's move is all-in all the time.

That being said. I don't believe for a second that the games are rigged. I've had my fair share of suck outs, as well as getting sucked out on. It looks no different than any other site in that regard. The fact that it seems to happen more often is due to the nature of the calling stations that play there.

Think about it this way, AQ is a huge favorite over JT, like 60-40... and playing the hands in a normal tournament, with players that understand the game, you will almost never see a showdown with two players having these hands. But, the Calling Station nature of damned near everyone on ClubWPT is such that these hands will almost ALWAYS go to showdown. Meaning you will see JT beat AQ, 40% of the time. Which is an odd thing to see so often. But it matches the math.


Stack on top of that, if you're someone that knows the game well enough to know that nobody should be calling your bets with JT, then you will naturally think that something is wrong with the site -- Because no reasonable person would call that down, and win that hand. But on club WPT, that's exactly what the donks do.

Like I said, I play there routinely, usually at least one tournament a day, if not two or three, and I profit from it. I rarely make the cash, but since my only entry is the cost of a stamp, due to sweepstakes laws, any cash is profit for the month.

They are prompt to send out checks, and never hassle me over it. I appreciate the quick, easy, and FREE payout system.


One final thought. The site is so poorly programmed and operated, that as an IT professional, my opinion is that they don't have the expertise to implement an algorithm to promote unfair play. I just don't believe they have an IT staff competent enough for that - or the infrastructure to support it.

 

[oldgrinder63]

Your points are valid, Can you explain on how this works with the post cards? Do you get a free month or how does it work? Anyways I consider a bad beat to be 1-2 outers when you are ahead as of the turn card and the donk has only 1-2 cards to save him.

 

[zinzir]

y?

Donks.... Yep. I play on ClubWPT routinely.



Greetings Allen! Could you please tell me how ClubWPT works, do you pay a membership fee to get access to the freerolls or is there a free version and a paid version? Thank you!

 

[AllenKll]

do you pay a membership fee to get access to the freerolls or is there a free version and a paid version? Thank you!

Can you explain on how this works with the post cards? Do you get a free month or how does it work?

I get this question a lot acutally. The rules are laid out on https://www.clubwpt.com/ Scroll to the bottom, and you can find the terms of service
Section 9, Paragraph 5 describes how to get free entry into the cash tournaments. You can search for "Alternative means of tournament entry" Follow steps 1 and 2 to send in your postcard.


Sending in the 3x5 card will get you 1 month of VIP membership.
You'll get 500 Tournament Points (TPs) which you can run up, or play in freerolls to get more. Some states even get reimbursed for postage! Sadly, mine does not.
When they get your note card and process it, you'll get an e-mail telling your that your "FAME Membership" is active, and when it will expire.

As for TP's, when your membership does expire, you'll keep your TP balance, but can't play in the VIP tournaments. If you then send in another card, you'll get your status back plus 500 more TPs.

It takes all of 5 minutes to write your name, address, username, and DOB, and fill out an envelope, and put a stamp on it, and drop it in a mailbox, i really don't understand why some people actually pay money for the site.




In Florida, the rules are a little weird, where they are only up for 2 months, and then down for 1 month. So I play when I can, but get shut out a third of the time. The VIP membership doesn't 'pause' during this time, so, plan your postcards accordingly.

 

[Evan Jarvis]

They run these points free rolls like every 15 minutes 24 hrs a day, You can win T,p,s in the points free rolls, Tp,s (turney points) you need Tp,s to enter cash prize turneys there biggest turneys are usually on sunday and they have a 5k game and 10k sometimes I believe, those games cost 2000 Tp,s to enter, they have 1k trnys tue, wed, thu those are 400 T,ps to enter. When you first start out with donk club wpt they give you 500 T,p,s so you have to earn t,ps if you want to play in the bigger cash games. So if you do end up in those free rolls be warned that there are massive herds of donks that literally play like a 12 yr would and its not even real poker in my opinion. I still am investigating the site for rigged dealing program, I believe they are using algorithms in key crucial hands! They want to keep there paying monthly donks happy so they had to come up with a way to do so. My advice do not join and you better off on ACR or somewhere else.

I mean it's a membership site that's kind of a play money model, what do you expect? :ahhhhh:

But yes, I agree, ACR or somewhere else is definitely a better investment of time & money

 

[oldgrinder63]

Club WPT is so depressing !

Hey for you high rollers they now have there diamond membership available for 149 bucks a month and you get access to more turneys. I could now write a book about this site but for now I will just tell you there whole site is a joke and probably a scam! When you spend some time in there you will know! If you do join be prepared for Herds and Herds of donks that will call you down with anything including just A high even in there high end turneys. The site is also great at mind ****ing you! Play for yourself and you will see! Have fun! I mean its your money. Seriously there site is like "invaders of the body snatchers" I feel a duty to warn fellow poker players! I hope my post meets Card Chat Approval apparently it must really be good in order to get credit for the various free rolls? For the record I think your free roll PW system is a huge joke and I quit even looking into it as I discovered it is a waste of my time! Now some idiot will probably ban me from cards chat watch and see.

 

[zinzir]

Hey for you high rollers they now have there diamond membership available for 149 bucks a month and you get access to more turneys. I could now write a book about this site but for now I will just tell you there whole site is a joke and probably a scam! When you spend some time in there you will know! If you do join be prepared for Herds and Herds of donks that will call you down with anything including just A high even in there high end turneys. The site is also great at mind ****ing you! Play for yourself and you will see! Have fun! I mean its your money. Seriously there site is like "invaders of the body snatchers" I feel a duty to warn fellow poker players! I hope my post meets Card Chat Approval apparently it must really be good in order to get credit for the various free rolls? For the record I think your free roll PW system is a huge joke and I quit even looking into it as I discovered it is a waste of my time! Now some idiot will probably ban me from cards chat watch and see.

Couple of things: Spending $149/month is nonsensical as long as you get the same benefits for free by just sending a postcard to Club WPT every month. If you're currently paying that much money the joke is on you.

Second, the average CC post is nowhere near high quality and members do get credit, so CC quality enforcement is quite relaxed. Not saying that's good or bad, just telling you how it is.

Third, calling anyone an idiot is unacceptable. Besides, you are calling an imaginary CC moderator an idiot while your beef is with Club WPT, how does that even make any sense?

 

[terryk]

i was listening up until you started to dump on Cardschat,,yet here you are,using it for your benefit,,,, :withstupi

 

[Rico Calde]

i was listening up until you started to dump on Cardschat,,yet here you are,using it for your benefit,,,, :withstupi

I didn't even notice that. I only read the first few sentences.

 

[oldgrinder63]

Couple of things: Spending $149/month is nonsensical as long as you get the same benefits for free by just sending a postcard to Club WPT every month. If you're currently paying that much money the joke is on you.

Second, the average CC post is nowhere near high quality and members do get credit, so CC quality enforcement is quite relaxed. Not saying that's good or bad, just telling you how it is.

Third, calling anyone an idiot is unacceptable. Besides, you are calling an imaginary CC moderator an idiot while your beef is with Club WPT, how does that even make any sense?

I am not a diamond member which is the 149 a month I am VIP at 28 a month, but diamond you get access to a lot more that only diamond get. As far as that post card deal is concerned I know of it but 28 bucks a month is not any issue for me, I actually do not like the post card deal they have as it probably brings in many of the donks I spoke of. Yes I could have expressed better to cards chat about the FR passwords.

 

[oldgrinder63]

i was listening up until you started to dump on Cardschat,,yet here you are,using it for your benefit,,,, :withstupi

Probably should not post when drinking!

 

[oldgrinder63]

Continuing my investigation into Club wpt poker

I do not fully believe that club wpt poker dealing program is 100% random at all times. I also believe they set up action hands in order to speed there turneys up, They know that if a turney that had 800-1k players was in a regular format one would have to invest 7-9 hrs of there time if they were to go the distance, but on club wpt a turney that has even over 2k players in it will last at max 4 hrs if you were to go all the way to the final table. They are able to do that by setting up action hands that are designed to entice the players to not be able to fold there hands once the flop is out. Now this I can not prove but I have spent many hours on the site analyzing a lot of different things. Club wpt will not acknowledge
there dealing program is 100% random at all times. I have asked them numerous times this questions and they always send the same exact reply from a email template. Here is my most recent email.




Is your site a entertainment site or a real poker site with a valid rng? Because you allow people to play free I wonder does that allow you to manipulate your dealing program without worry of legal consequence? I only ask as you refuse to acknowledge the following statement- "Is your dealing program 100% random at all times?" Yes or No?



Here is the reply I always get, it is a email template.



We designed ClubWPT to provide our players with a safe and fair online home for no-risk poker. Our Random Number Generator (RNG), along with our card-shuffling algorithm, is among the best and most realistic available. I'm sorry if you feel you've been having some bad luck or if you feel like the dealing isn't fair. We hope you'll stick with us and we wish you the best of luck at the tables.




Most people pay them a membership fee of 28 a month in order to play on there vip site where one can win cash and or prizes and they rake in millions a month, however you can send them a post card by mail and receive 30 day access to the site and you have to resend the post card every 30 days, I am still not sure of the details of that or if it gives a player access to there larger turneys some are 2000 tp,s when you 1st join they give you 500 tp,s to start and after that you have to win your tp,s in turneys and they do run free roll points turneys like every 15 minutes and if you make the final table it starts at 500 tp win with 1st getting 1000 tp,s. There are things I like about club wpt it does provide a lot of entertainment especially if you are a turney addict like myself and they made some recent changes to the site that were good but they need to make many more changes, I believe the freebe post card BS draws in herds of donks. My whole issue in a nut shell is I just want to know and believe I am playing real poker and get it I am going to loose and some times win, but my instinct is telling me something stinks bad in there. I will continue my investigation.

 

[oldgrinder63]

Club WPT poker is sickening

Been playing on line poker since 2004! Club Wpt is the worst site ever, and I wish someone would explain to me why they refuse to acknowledge there dealing program is 100% random at all times? I have asked them that over 10 times in various emails and simply will not just say "Yes" are dealing program is always random, no matter how I phrase the question. They are a entertainment site is whats going on and they rake in a lot of money with there monthly fee they charge. I am not smart enough to know how they manipulate there program but I am now 98% sure they do, Even when I do win I still suspect them! Its hard to verbalize but something stinks real bad. I have logged massive hours on the site as I am a poker turney addict and will no longer play on any off shore sites. So I will continue for now to play on donk club wpt at least I do get a lot of laughs from the site. Last word I have asked many other poker sites the same question and they all acknowledged there dealing program is 100% random at all times. All except this site? I think they need to be investigated by the Attorney General.

 

[BigCountryAA]

I get the same feeling from Global Poker. It may be random but it's not a random shuffle (more like pick a random seat that'll win if they go to river). I feel like they set up action hands for sure. Seen more 4 of a kind then I ever do on the other sites. Almost every board is draw or flush heavy. I may just be paranoid though but I don't think so.

 

[oldgrinder63]

I get the same feeling from Global Poker. It may be random but it's not a random shuffle (more like pick a random seat that'll win if they go to river). I feel like they set up action hands for sure. Seen more 4 of a kind then I ever do on the other sites. Almost every board is draw or flush heavy. I may just be paranoid though but I don't think so.

Ya I agree with you, Just today I was in a 5k trny on donk club wpt and the chip leader on my table won every big hand he came into, on one hand he was up against AA he had 77 on gets a 7 on the flop. He took me out as well. Here is the short version I had AQ he had JQ flop brings a Q I check but he bets I go all in and of course a J hits the turn! He had no other outs except the J. I have acturally laid down pkt KK on that site preflop as I know there setting up a action hand and sure enough when I did that the other player had AA and no K hit the flop as another player went all in so I got to see the whole flop. Ya its not real poker which is really sad I have played enough live poker to know this shit does not happen that often and its non stop on club wpt! And they will not acknowledge there program is 100% random at all times?

 

[oldgrinder63]

Maybe I was wrong about club wpt?

It just may seem like it is rigged but due to the herds of donks that play in there that is what likely screws up the poker. Maybe never was club wpt.

Here is a brief overview of the system that we use, and the methods by which we've approached RNG and card shuffling:

• Several competitors have experienced serious problems with pseudo-random number generation (PRNG). In some cases these problems have compromised the security of their systems (see article about ASF Software's PRNG flaw here). Some competitors in the online gaming market attempt to provide RNG by starting with a 32-bit seed for a PRNG. Unfortunately, this method provides only a very small set of outcomes in comparison to the randomness required for truly random shuffled decks of cards. Because of this, they tend to use shuffle algorithms that attempt to work around the quality limitations of the PRNG that they are using. Sites that shuffle cards utilizing a PRNG with a 32-bit seed, will only be able to produce 4,294,967,296 possible shuffles, or merely 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000005% (or 5 x 10-57%) of the possible ways to shuffle a deck. More importantly, however, the combination of the use of a PRNG and relatively small seeds (or even large seeds that are not sufficiently random) and faulty shuffling algorithms can allow a determined individual to predict the order of the remaining cards in a deck after seeing the first several cards that are dealt.
• Our approach is to forgo pseudo-random number generation wherever possible and instead use true random number generation from proven random physical devices. Our system utilizes thermal noise on a zener diode—shielded to prevent any environmental interference. The characteristics of this device are governed by the laws of quantum physics and are provably non-deterministic. Through the use of true random numbers and our shuffling algorithm (see below), we ensure first that it is impossible to predict the next card coming off the deck, and second that every possible shuffle combination is equally likely, all 8.06581751709439 X 1067 of them or 80,658,175,170,943,900,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000.
• Despite the fact that the device we use is largely held to provide sufficient randomness, our security software team was concerned with making the output from the devices even more quantifiably random and fault-tolerant than a simple single-device configuration by custom-designing the following features into our system:
  
  1. We follow all recommendations of the device manufacturer as to obtaining the highest quality random bit stream per device;
  2. Rather than just trusting that the raw data collected from the device is random, we test the quality of each sample from the device and reject samples which do not conform to (U.S.) Federal Information Processing Standards (FIPS) Publication 140-2 - Security Requirements for Cryptographic Modules, section 4.9.1 Power-On Tests, as published by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST);
  3. These tests are performed for every sample collected;
  4. Samples that do not pass the test are not forwarded on to the mixer;
  5. We use two of the devices per hardware host and then mix their random streams via cryptographically-secure whitening functions, relieving any device-specific bias—or any other bias for that matter;
  6. The resultant output stream has been verified as appearing to be completely random over 100 runs of the DIEHARD and ent random verification test suites;
  7. Procedures are in place to replace faulty devices at the first sign of trouble, before gameplay can be adversely affected in any way;
  8. DIEHARD and ent were also used to verify randomness in situations where one of the devices is failing to produce high quality samples (i.e. a higher than nominal rejection rate due to FIPS-test failures).
• Our shuffling algorithm samples the stream of random numbers that is generated only when a card needs to be dealt or the deck needs to be reset between hands, thereby interleaving samples from all running games.
• To enhance the security of our random number infrastructure, the samples from the random stream are encrypted using a secure stream cipher prior to being used to select cards. This step does not in any way reduce the entropy inherent in the stream.
• The previous two components of our system insure that even if a person could access the system and the random number stream, or corrupt the random stream, it would still be EXTREMELY difficult to reliably determine the numbers actually used in the shuffle algorithm!
• The length of time that any particular number in the random stream is a candidate to be used to select a card to be dealt is very short.
• The algorithm used to select the next card to be dealt absolutely assures that every remaining card in the deck is exactly equally likely to be chosen.
• When starting a new hand, the deck is never presented for play in a known state and the deck is never returned to a known state between hands, or at any other tim

 

[AllenKll]

Yes.. they have nothing to gain by rigging it.

I actually know what all that gobbledy-gook means. I have designed discreet component RNGs, so I can understand where they are coming from and the methods they are using. It all seems legit.

It's literally the enormous number of donks that cause the weirdness. Maybe it's bots? maybe it's just fools? dunno... But it is an interesting thing. And you can make money on it if you're a good player. I know I've make money off it.

Thanks for posting the info. I don't think I've seen any other poker site do that.

 

[karoch]

If you read any of my other post this is a follow up. New information coming in that club wpt is now under investigation due to there corrupted and faulty dealing program, they are luring in paying customers with the expectation that they can win cash prizes, when in fact they have loaded sub routines in there dealing program and its abit complex, but can easily be done I am told with creative programming. Club wpt refuses to acknowledge there dealing program is 100% random at all times? If you do not believe me email them yourselves and ask them that question. members@theclubservices.com

I have been playing clubwpt probably soon after they launched. I have definitely noticed some patterns (i think). One concern I have is they have never upgraded the software.

a few irregularities i have noticed is: If a player is sitting out and reaches the point where he is all in, all in player wins most of the time no matter the hand.

Big stack players seem to get the luck more often. This may be built in to keep players active on the site and move them to another game. I am assuming clubwpt's software is an old paysite software.

I recently joined the diamond clubwpt. I am very frustrated. I play a pretty tight game and i have had a rash of bad beats. Most of the time going all in with the best hand and getting rivered by someone with a one outer. I almost feel like i'm being "black balled" or something. I like the diamond games with less players and far fewer donks.
It's a shame because I think I am going to cancel. Cant get over this feeling that the software is not up to snuff.

 

[oldgrinder63]

Yes.. they have nothing to gain by rigging it.

I actually know what all that gobbledy-gook means. I have designed discreet component RNGs, so I can understand where they are coming from and the methods they are using. It all seems legit.

It's literally the enormous number of donks that cause the weirdness. Maybe it's bots? maybe it's just fools? dunno... But it is an interesting thing. And you can make money on it if you're a good player. I know I've make money off it.

Thanks for posting the info. I don't think I've seen any other poker site do that.

Sorry for the late reply! Folding j,k off UTG plus 1? Really depends on the table, is it aggressive or meek? Or in between? Is there a player with a short stack that's likely on tilt?
There is no pat answer.

 

[mike2dos51]

whats considered

Quite a wall of text you've got there, bud. Maybe some paragraphs next time to help with readability?

Donks.... Yep. I play on ClubWPT routinely. There are an metric ass load of donks. It's very much not strategy based for a lot of the time, in a lot of the tournaments.

Add on the fact that blinds are blazingly fast, and you've got yourself one hell of an interesting mix of weird shit going on. When and if you do make a final table, the blinds are so damned high that nearly everyone's move is all-in all the time.

That being said. I don't believe for a second that the games are rigged. I've had my fair share of suck outs, as well as getting sucked out on. It looks no different than any other site in that regard. The fact that it seems to happen more often is due to the nature of the calling stations that play there.

Think about it this way, AQ is a huge favorite over JT, like 60-40... and playing the hands in a normal tournament, with players that understand the game, you will almost never see a showdown with two players having these hands. But, the Calling Station nature of damned near everyone on ClubWPT is such that these hands will almost ALWAYS go to showdown. Meaning you will see JT beat AQ, 40% of the time. Which is an odd thing to see so often. But it matches the math.


Stack on top of that, if you're someone that knows the game well enough to know that nobody should be calling your bets with JT, then you will naturally think that something is wrong with the site -- Because no reasonable person would call that down, and win that hand. But on club WPT, that's exactly what the donks do.

Like I said, I play there routinely, usually at least one tournament a day, if not two or three, and I profit from it. I rarely make the cash, but since my only entry is the cost of a stamp, due to sweepstakes laws, any cash is profit for the month.

They are prompt to send out checks, and never hassle me over it. I appreciate the quick, easy, and FREE payout system.


One final thought. The site is so poorly programmed and operated, that as an IT professional, my opinion is that they don't have the expertise to implement an algorithm to promote unfair play. I just don't believe they have an IT staff competent enough for that - or the infrastructure to support it.

what exactly is considered a card ? do you just cut out a 3x5 inch piece of paper or something lol ? I read up on the website as you directed but its not very specific on that.

 

[AllenKll]

what exactly is considered a card ? do you just cut out a 3x5 inch piece of paper or something lol ? I read up on the website as you directed but its not very specific on that.

I bought a pack of index cards from staples. But I'm sure a 3x5 piece of paper would work. BTW, if you want Diamond for the month, instead of just VIP, then be sure to write DIAMOND across the bottom.