Fedor Kruse has been accused of Cheating at Poker

[Crash Burn]

Hello guys!

I've been reading some news in the poker world and I wanted to address a very interesting and important subject.

Cheating at Poker

German Fedor Kruse has been accused by his two flatmates of using a solver known as a "dream machine" in the cash game high stakes and moving from an ordinary player at the lower limits to a genius in the more expensive games.

So I'd like to know your opinion about cheating in online poker. Leave your opinion here and a strong hug to all.

We meet at the Cards tables.

 

[pablow]

do you consider any exernal software that gives you statistics about users as cheating?

 

[Crash Burn]

do you consider any exernal software that gives you statistics about users as cheating?

This player is suspected of using solver in real time. Depending on the type of software I think a cheat yes. Now I know that there are software that are allowed and paid for use in online poker. But there are also software that is not allowed. And my question was clear... What do you think about cheating in online poker. Because you know there's such a thing.​

 

[wagon596]

Myself, I could cheat and still lose.

 

[Crash Burn]

Myself, I could cheat and still lose.

Never did that, but lately I'm losing more than winning hehehehe....​

 

[elizeuof]

Any software that help a player to play better and give him advantage on others players need a especial caution, some poker rooms have a list of prohibited third parties softwares and permitted, so in case of a software that are not in these two list you need to ask them about it before use to avoid any penalty. Some rooms don't allow any software...

In my opinion we need to learn how to play and play better than others players to win any game, using support softwares we are going against the rule, to understand my point of view you can try to play against a similar player on live game, you can win or lost, of course, it's a part of the game, but what you will think if there are some pro players teaching to yours opponent how to play each hand, because the software make this, uses the knowledge data base, of the best players in the world, mathematical and a system that analyse all your game play and tells to help some players.

 

[Crash Burn]

Any software that help a player to play better and give him advantage on others players need a especial caution, some poker rooms have a list of prohibited third parties softwares and permitted, so in case of a software that are not in these two list you need to ask them about it before use to avoid any penalty. Some rooms don't allow any software...

In my opinion we need to learn how to play and play better than others players to win any game, using support softwares we are going against the rule, to understand my point of view you can try to play against a similar player on live game, you can win or lost, of course, it's a part of the game, but what you will think if there are some pro players teaching to yours opponent how to play each hand, because the software make this, uses the knowledge data base, of the best players in the world, mathematical and a system that analyse all your game play and tells to help some players.

I agree with you friend, in live poker this does not happen and it is precisely there where you find real poker players.​

 

[arenaci]

When we google definition of cheating: "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage"
Here the key word is honesty. For instance if a site allows HUD then everyone knows that anyone can use the HUD. So no one is dishonest. Hence, no one is cheating. But if someone knew that Fedor used RTA would anyone play against him? Probably not. Hence, Fedor is dishonest. Hence, Fedor is cheating!Cheating should not be tolerated at all.
In online chess GMs and other pro players can realize if players are playing with real time assistance or not. In chess these two AIs are AlphaZero (no one person or AI can beat this) and stockfish (another strong AI). Online, these players can be tracked by analyzing their histories. If a person is new and can beat GMs who studied their whole life then it is very easy to understand whether he/she is playing using AI.

In online poker it might be difficult to track such players. Simply because there are more variables in poker than in chess.

I would be very happy if someone could tell me how to spot these players who use RTA.

 

[Crash Burn]

When we google definition of cheating: "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage"
Here the key word is honesty. For instance if a site allows HUD then everyone knows that anyone can use the HUD. So no one is dishonest. Hence, no one is cheating. But if someone knew that Fedor used RTA would anyone play against him? Probably not. Hence, Fedor is dishonest. Hence, Fedor is cheating!Cheating should not be tolerated at all.
In online chess GMs and other pro players can realize if players are playing with real time assistance or not. In chess these two AIs are AlphaZero (no one person or AI can beat this) and stockfish (another strong AI). Online, these players can be tracked by analyzing their histories. If a person is new and can beat GMs who studied their whole life then it is very easy to understand whether he/she is playing using AI.

In online poker it might be difficult to track such players. Simply because there are more variables in poker than in chess.

I would be very happy if someone could tell me how to spot these players who use RTA.

I understand your question, but to be along with when a player is dishonest is precisely for no one to know. So it is not feasible for your information that the player chooses not to play against that player who is cheating. And there's more... There are many software that are not allowed and others that are unknown. For me there's nothing honest about passing poker to take advantage.

Big hug friend.​

 

[valetgll]

Is this software that scary for online poker players?

 

[Crash Burn]

Is this software that scary for online poker players?

Unfortunately in the world of online poker to hackers, but to many people working to solve this. It's not always easy. ​

 

[1nsomn1a]

in poker, there will always be cheaters, when it comes to money, there will always be a person who wants a quick dishonest enrichment, so it was and will be unfortunately.

 

[Crash Burn]

in poker, there will always be cheaters, when it comes to money, there will always be a person who wants a quick dishonest enrichment, so it was and will be unfortunately.

You're absolutely right, unfortunately you'll always see you cheaters.​

 

[direktor_vozduha]

I've heard that there are programs that give out hand statistics. I don't know if they're legal

 

[mickathyus]

Study the hand statistics, its totally worth it.

 

[rachelle2291]

Probably within 10 years the use of bots and cheating will destroy online poker just as it did online backgammon. The cheating tools will become more refined. There will be more and more non-cheaters that will become disillusioned and quit playing for higher stakes. This will result in sites going bankrupt because the poker rooms sure do not make their money from players like me that every once in awhile play a few 25 cent spin and gos.

 

[Crash Burn]

Probably within 10 years the use of bots and cheating will destroy online poker just as it did online backgammon. The cheating tools will become more refined. There will be more and more non-cheaters that will become disillusioned and quit playing for higher stakes. This will result in sites going bankrupt because the poker rooms sure do not make their money from players like me that every once in awhile play a few 25 cent spin and gos.

Study the hand statistics, its totally worth it.

I've heard that there are programs that give out hand statistics. I don't know if they're legal

Unfortunately with so much cheating online poker can no longer be so interesting in the near future. But live poker remains much better and reliable to play. On the other hand, live poker is more interesting precisely because it has no cheating and is much more difficult. ​

 

[mickathyus]

Its easier to just build skill

 

[Crash Burn]

Its easier to just build skill

I fully agree with you brother​

 

[mclay]

I believe this is the most important topic in online poker today. It could just kill online poker. I think that poker rooms should give up all their energy to find ways to combat this.

 

[jsnake716]

do you consider any exernal software that gives you statistics about users as cheating?

I think most people view real time solvers as a definite "cheat". This will basically tell you what "play" or "line" to take on a hand based on computer analysis.

pokerstars will give you a warning just for having software like ICMizer open while playing, on the other hand using a HUD which can give you stats on how your opponents are playing is considered OK by almost everyone. In fact, sites are making players VPIP part of the avatars and most have a way of watching basic stats

I knew this was going to become an issue, I still think it is an occasional problem BUT as the software gets better and cheaper, and more people are able to "grab" it, online poker might be doomed. When a 'cheater" has the ability to run an independent machine that is not connected to the poker site it is very difficult to catch.

 

[jsnake716]

Unfortunately with so much cheating online poker can no longer be so interesting in the near future. But live poker remains much better and reliable to play. On the other hand, live poker is more interesting precisely because it has no cheating and is much more difficult. ​

Unfortunately, it is clear that "live" poker is not immune from cheating. Ie: The Postle debacle - Stones Casino made an argument in open court that a casino has no legal responsibility to make sure the customers are not cheated. It sounds shocking, but our judicial system is so prejudiced towards corporations over the individual we can't expect relief from lawsuits.

It is ironic as technology becomes better, we are going back to the old days of rigged games and the player must be vigilant and never take security for granted. I still love the game and any game that involves the exchange of money between players will always draw a small amount of people willing to do and/or try anything to win without the effort.

 

[Highsolation]

Cheating is just a scumbag move from my perspective. I've come across people cheating on chess websites for example, and I just sigh about it. Why would someone depend on a piece of software to gain advantage over another fellow player? If you cannot play for yourself, can't afford to lose, don't want to sharpen your skills, then you shouldn't compete in the first place, what's the point?
Cheating is just miserable and I pity those who have to use that resort.

 

[Daniel72]

I am not a fan of poker software, but cheating is a too hard word for this.
Also the software assumes perfect play from your opponents, right?
Like all the push fold charts / tables ?
Which the opponents never do, most of them are unpredictable.

 

[ranynight]

when i first time heared this(about scripts and soft), I became paranoid and now i never play cash. MTT only, thats i sure